Jacinta Allan - Leading a zombie government

[Maggie5]

If its about what the government is spending their money on, he’s allowed to have that opinion.
He’s not questioning the treaty, he’s questioning what we’re spending money on.

Is this breaking forum rules?

I don’t believe it is, and it didn’t need a smartass reply from a moderator.
Should be trying to keep people posting on here, not deterring them or making them feel worthless for having an opinion.

I am not posting as a Mod so don't know the answer to your question. I am posting as a poster just like you.

The government has indicated there is a concern about water shortage, they are not in charge of how much rain we get.
I am pleased that it has been brought to the attention of us users so early. Forewarned is good.

There was an uproar when the desalination plant was built as a waste of money and unnecessary and here we are where it has been supplementing our dams.

Sometimes no matter what is achieved it will never be enough for some.

Mention of treaty not relevant as far as I am concerned and I saw it as a putdown (to the Treaty) and unnecessary.

Just my opinion of course (if allowed).

 

[Del203211]

I am not posting as a Mod so don't know the answer to your question. I am posting as a poster just like you.

The government has indicated there is a concern about water shortage, they are not in charge of how much rain we get.
I am pleased that it has been brought to the attention of us users so early. Forewarned is good.

There was an uproar when the desalination plant was built as a waste of money and unnecessary and here we are where it has been supplementing our dams.

Sometimes no matter what is achieved it will never be enough for some.

Mention of treaty not relevant as far as I am concerned and I saw it as a putdown (to the Treaty) and necessary.

Just my opinion of course (if allowed).

At the end of the day, if the government is able to put another water order in and doesn’t need to bring in more restrictions, then the argument of “affordability” is irrelevant.

That poster that you are referring to, was replying to another poster that mentioned high costs and the consequences of another water order.

For context:

Apparently it costs significant money to get water from the Desal plant. That'll only put pressure on the current government as it'll contribute to cost of living pressures. We'll have higher electricity costs AND higher water costs.

Can't see the government ordering water during this term.

Maybe they should have scrapped the treaty there’s a spare 70m a year

If he feels it’s a waste of money, and can be used better elsewhere, I don’t think they should be put down with smartass replies.

If the forum rules are that you can’t criticise the costs of a treaty, then I’ll happily stand corrected.

 

[Del203211]

There was an uproar when the desalination plant was built as a waste of money and unnecessary and here we are where it has been supplementing our dams.

Sometimes no matter what is achieved it will never be enough for some..

Very glad we have it, and yep spot on to paragraph #2.

 

[Maggie5]

At the end of the day, if the government is able to put another water order in and doesn’t need to bring in more restrictions, then the argument of “affordability” is irrelevant.

That poster that you are referring to, was replying to another poster that mentioned high costs and the consequences of another water order.

For context:





If he feels it’s a waste of money, and can be used better elsewhere, I don’t think they should be put down with smartass replies.

If the forum rules are that you can’t criticise the costs of a treaty, then I’ll happily stand corrected.

I think you are missing my point and happy to leave it there.

 

[10571z]

The glass is 75% full, yet you are crying about it being 25% empty?

Our time for building new water storage projects were prior to when our dams were over flowing with excessive rain

Our last major water storage project was the Thomson dam in the 80s when our population was around 4 million. We now have over 7 million and the same amount of water.

Dan Andrews famously stated there was no point building dams as they wouldn’t fill, which was a completely false statement.

Further government incompetence while they spend money on just about everything else

 

[kalex6251]

..... let me see if i properly understand the environmental argument being waged here (and elsewhere on SRP)

- building dams = good

- building renewable energy towers = bad

the toxic influence of RWNJ / MAGA politics (especially in regional australia) really has warped some peoples minds

 

[10571z]

..... let me see if i properly understand the environmental argument being waged here (and elsewhere on SRP)

- building dams = good

- building renewable energy towers = bad

the toxic influence of RWNJ / MAGA politics (especially in regional australia) really has warped some peoples minds

I mean there is basically one way to store a significant amount of water.

As for electricity there is multiple ways of varying cost long and short term to create it.

 

[Del203211]

I mean there is basically one way to store a significant amount of water.

As for electricity there is multiple ways of varying cost long and short term to create it.

me diSaGrE.. me tYpE RwNj suMwHeRE

 

[kalex6251]

me diSaGrE.. me tYpE RwNj suMwHeRE

flirt

 

[Demonic Ascent]

https://archive.is/pe774

They built the desal plant which is being usd. Looking to extend capacity/build extra desal plants.

AI and cloud data centres are sucking up water for cooling, perhaps we should cease building any more AI data centres or limit the amount of resources they can use until we've ensured sustainability.

 

[hawkman]

https://archive.is/pe774

They built the desal plant which is being usd. Looking to extend capacity/build extra desal plants.

AI and cloud data centres are sucking up water for cooling, perhaps we should cease building any more AI data centres or limit the amount of resources they can use until we've ensured sustainability.

Can they afford it though?

 

[GrayRanga]

I mean there is basically one way to store a significant amount of water.

As for electricity there is multiple ways of varying cost long and short term to create it.

Which large river are you going to dam?

What towns or localities are going to lose their source of potable water to service the Melbourne Metropolitan area with water?

Which valley are you going to drown?

What towns or farmland are you going to empty to enable this dam to be built?

You raised this as a failing of the Labor Government, on the basis of some blog, facebook page or rumour and as you saw fit to pass this brainfart on to the rest of us, you have obviously conducted a semlance of independent research to support your claims?

Come on, even a provisional plan to support your opinion would enable us to discuss this in good faith.

 

[10571z]

Which large river are you going to dam?

What towns or localities are going to lose their source of potable water to service the Melbourne Metropolitan area with water?

Which valley are you going to drown?

What towns or farmland are you going to empty to enable this dam to be built?

You raised this as a failing of the Labor Government, on the basis of some blog, facebook page or rumour and as you saw fit to pass this brainfart on to the rest of us, you have obviously conducted a semlance of independent research to support your claims?

Come on, even a provisional plan to support your opinion would enable us to discuss this in good faith.

Let’s slow this down a bit and not pretend I said there’s a bulldozer already parked in a valley somewhere.

My criticism of the Labor Government is that they’ve failed to present a credible, long-term water security plan that actually matches Melbourne’s population growth. Kicking the can down the road and saying “we’ll investigate options later” is exactly how governments end up cornered into bad decisions.

To your questions:

Which large river are you going to dam?
That’s precisely the problem Labor won’t say. If desal is politically or financially constrained long-term, and demand keeps rising, history tells us governments fall back on inland storages. That’s not a conspiracy, it’s precedent.

Which towns lose potable water? Which valley gets drowned? Which farmland gets emptied?
Again no answers, because there’s no transparent plan. And that’s the criticism. Major water infrastructure doesn’t appear overnight. If these conversations aren’t happening publicly now, they’ll happen in crisis mode later, when communities get told instead of consulted.

Where’s the evidence….
Population growth projections, declining inflows into existing catchments, and repeated government language about “future options” without committing to anything concrete. That’s not a Facebook rumour that’s straight out of their own water strategy documents, which notably avoid spelling out hard choices.

So no, I’m not claiming a dam has been approved or that a specific valley is doomed. I am saying the government’s approach is reactive, opaque, and politically convenient and that’s how you end up with rushed infrastructure, angry regional communities, and zero trust when the inevitable announcement finally lands.

If Labor has a clear alternative that permanently avoids new inland storages, I’d love to see it spelled out with numbers, timelines, and guarantees. Until then, questioning the lack of transparency and long-term planning is entirely fair game.

 

[Sttew]

I defy posters who support SRL at this point of time to read this article and then ask themselves, are we are being taken for a 'ride' and why have we allowed the Allan government to treat us like such fools and with such disdain?

The author rightly suggests Chifley, Hawke and Keating would never have committed funds to such an expensive project about which we basically know nothing.

"... tell Infrastructure Australia to put every single updated document about the Suburban Rail Loop on the internet tomorrow morning — the whole business case, the new numbers, the value-capture fairy dust, all of it. If the project is as wonderful as the minister now says it is, the numbers will speak for themselves. If they don’t release it, well, you’ll know why.

Australia is a country where people have a basic straightforward decency. We must ensure that a few spivs in government and consulting firms dressed in hard hats and high-vis vests turn it into something else. Once you tolerate a little bit of state-sponsored corruption, Australia becomes a third world nation."

https://thenightly.com.au/opinion/s...uburban-rail-loop-isnt-one-of-them-c-21157375

 

[MarcMaverick]

https://archive.is/pe774

They built the desal plant which is being usd. Looking to extend capacity/build extra desal plants.

AI and cloud data centres are sucking up water for cooling, perhaps we should cease building any more AI data centres or limit the amount of resources they can use until we've ensured sustainability.

Too much AI slop these days.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

I defy posters who support SRL at this point of time to read this article and then ask themselves, are we are being taken for a 'ride' and why have we allowed the Allan government to treat us like such fools and with such disdain?

The author rightly suggests Chifley, Hawke and Keating would never have committed funds to such an expensive project about which we basically know nothing.

"... tell Infrastructure Australia to put every single updated document about the Suburban Rail Loop on the internet tomorrow morning — the whole business case, the new numbers, the value-capture fairy dust, all of it. If the project is as wonderful as the minister now says it is, the numbers will speak for themselves. If they don’t release it, well, you’ll know why.

Australia is a country where people have a basic straightforward decency. We must ensure that a few spivs in government and consulting firms dressed in hard hats and high-vis vests turn it into something else. Once you tolerate a little bit of state-sponsored corruption, Australia becomes a third world nation."

https://thenightly.com.au/opinion/s...uburban-rail-loop-isnt-one-of-them-c-21157375

Experience says public transport gets consistently under valued.

When its finished it will be the usual "exceeded expectations"

The reality in the country we dont have cross suburban railways so everyone just thinks trains must go to the CBD.

 

[Sttew]

Experience says public transport gets consistently under valued.

When its finished it will be the usual "exceeded expectations"

The reality in the country we dont have cross suburban railways so everyone just thinks trains must go to the CBD.

So are you saying doesn't matter what the cost is or whether there is a cogent business case because its public transport?

What's your take of Anthony's article?

Do you not agree we, the tax payers, are entitled to ask "Infrastructure Australia to put every single updated document about the Suburban Rail Loop on the internet tomorrow morning — the whole business case, the new numbers, the value-capture fairy dust, all of it" or are you happy to be kept completely in the dark on this project and trust what little the government tells us?

At least the costings of Westgate Tunnel, Metro Tunnel and Level Crossing Removals were declared and supported by business cases. Not SRL.

When SRL is finished... that is a massive IF as we are talking 50+ years and requiring new governments to commit to the project.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

So are you saying doesn't matter what the cost is or whether there is a cogent business case because its public transport?

What's your take of Anthony's article?

Do you not agree we, the tax payers, are entitled to ask "Infrastructure Australia to put every single updated document about the Suburban Rail Loop on the internet tomorrow morning — the whole business case, the new numbers, the value-capture fairy dust, all of it" or are you happy to be kept completely in the dark on this project and trust what little the government tells us?

At least the costings of Westgate Tunnel, Metro Tunnel and Level Crossing Removals were declared and supported by business cases. Not SRL.

When SRL is finished... that is a massive IF as we are talking 50+ years and requiring new governments to commit to the project.

Busniess Cases consistently under value public transport. There is still far too much old car brain thinking that goes on.

As to the article. Opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has one.
If we listened to opinions then there wouldn't be a City Loop.

 

[leon123]

Govt. don't have the will to want to use it.

It is used

 

[leon123]

Let’s slow this down a bit and not pretend I said there’s a bulldozer already parked in a valley somewhere.

My criticism of the Labor Government is that they’ve failed to present a credible, long-term water security plan that actually matches Melbourne’s population growth. Kicking the can down the road and saying “we’ll investigate options later” is exactly how governments end up cornered into bad decisions.

To your questions:

Which large river are you going to dam?
That’s precisely the problem Labor won’t say. If desal is politically or financially constrained long-term, and demand keeps rising, history tells us governments fall back on inland storages. That’s not a conspiracy, it’s precedent.

Which towns lose potable water? Which valley gets drowned? Which farmland gets emptied?
Again no answers, because there’s no transparent plan. And that’s the criticism. Major water infrastructure doesn’t appear overnight. If these conversations aren’t happening publicly now, they’ll happen in crisis mode later, when communities get told instead of consulted.

Where’s the evidence….
Population growth projections, declining inflows into existing catchments, and repeated government language about “future options” without committing to anything concrete. That’s not a Facebook rumour that’s straight out of their own water strategy documents, which notably avoid spelling out hard choices.

So no, I’m not claiming a dam has been approved or that a specific valley is doomed. I am saying the government’s approach is reactive, opaque, and politically convenient and that’s how you end up with rushed infrastructure, angry regional communities, and zero trust when the inevitable announcement finally lands.

If Labor has a clear alternative that permanently avoids new inland storages, I’d love to see it spelled out with numbers, timelines, and guarantees. Until then, questioning the lack of transparency and long-term planning is entirely fair game.

You said no water plan... well there is. Its called water for Victorians. Can you tell me the long term water plan drafted by the liberals when they were in power

 

[peetoo]

So are you saying doesn't matter what the cost is or whether there is a cogent business case because its public transport?

What's your take of Anthony's article?

Do you not agree we, the tax payers, are entitled to ask "Infrastructure Australia to put every single updated document about the Suburban Rail Loop on the internet tomorrow morning — the whole business case, the new numbers, the value-capture fairy dust, all of it" or are you happy to be kept completely in the dark on this project and trust what little the government tells us?

At least the costings of Westgate Tunnel, Metro Tunnel and Level Crossing Removals were declared and supported by business cases. Not SRL.

When SRL is finished... that is a massive IF as we are talking 50+ years and requiring new governments to commit to the project.

So. Called business cases are hard enough without factoring I 50 year timeframe

Also the ‘no business case ‘ statement is in this thread dozens of times but hardly ever backed up

 

[Sttew]

Also the ‘no business case ‘ statement is in this thread dozens of times but hardly ever backed up

Just quoting what Infrastructure Australia have said. The government has steadfastly refused to provide anything

 

[CM86]

Just quoting what Infrastructure Australia have said. The government has steadfastly refused to provide anything

So you've read it? Great!
Can you please link to it, and also support your positions around it with questions?

 

[CM86]

Busniess Cases consistently under value public transport. There is still far too much old car brain thinking that goes on.

As to the article. Opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has one.
If we listened to opinions then there wouldn't be a City Loop.

As you as a bastion of information and understanding around transportation information... Thanks.

 

[Sttew]

So you've read it? Great!
Can you please link to it, and also support your positions around it with questions?

Did you read the article the link for which I posted? Perhaps use that as a starting point instead of posting without knowing the context.