Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[jathanas]

Actually it IS because of Israel's actions.

The Zionists, from Netanyahu down, are telling everyone that Israel and Judaism are one and the same - via the message "criticism of Israel is anti-semitism".

So that same message is telling the nutters here (and elsewhere) that if you want to hit back at Israel for their atrocities you simply have to target innocent Jews as they are, after all, the same thing.

I don’t agree with this framing.

Explaining attacks on Australian Jews as displaced anger about Israel crosses a line for me.

Australian Jews aren’t responsible for Israel’s actions. They’re citizens, not proxies. Their safety shouldn’t be conditional on Israel's political signalling.

We can criticise Israel’s government — strongly — without normalising or contextualising violence against Jews here. Once we start doing that, we’ve lost our moral bearings.

 

[RCAB]

I don’t agree with this framing.

Explaining attacks on Australian Jews as displaced anger about Israel crosses a line for me.

Australian Jews aren’t responsible for Israel’s actions. They’re citizens, not proxies. Their safety shouldn’t be conditional on Israel's political signalling.

We can criticise Israel’s government — strongly — without normalising or contextualising violence against Jews here. Once we start doing that, we’ve lost our moral bearings.

You misunderstood what sherb was saying.

Israel itself propagates the dialogue in saying attacking Israel is "displaced anger" against Jews.

He's not excusing extremists, particularly the Bondi shooters, but this dialogue festers and conflates to these extremists, thinking that Jews=Israel. It's not.

He's blaming Israel, not the Jews.

Like I've said often in this thread, the problem with Bondi Attack will not be solved with a RC. It needs to be stopped at the source. The source which is the ethnic cleansing and genocide that Israel is committing.

 

[CarnTheScray]

Poor old Susssn is an absolute dope

Our Sarah Palin.

 

[jathanas]

You misunderstood what sherb was saying.

Israel itself propagates the dialogue in saying attacking Israel is "displaced anger" against Jews.

He's not excusing extremists, particularly the Bondi shooters, but this dialogue festers and conflates to these extremists, thinking that Jews=Israel. It's not.

He's blaming Israel, not the Jews.

Like I've said often in this thread, the problem with Bondi Attack will not be solved with a RC. It needs to be stopped at the source. The source which is the ethnic cleansing and genocide that Israel is committing.

I agree that Israel–Jew conflation is a problem, and that Israeli rhetoric can sometimes blur that line. But that doesn’t make Israel’s policies the source of violence against Jews here.

Blaming Israeli actions for attacks on Australian Jews still shifts responsibility away from the extremists who choose to collapse that distinction.

The leap I don’t accept is that a change in Israel’s political course would meaningfully reduce radicalisation here. History suggests grievances change; the engine doesn’t.

A Royal Commission won’t fix the Middle East — preventing violence in Australia means dealing with ideology and enforcement locally, not assuming global politics can be resolved first.

 

[PAFC66]

Actually it IS because of Israel's actions.

The Zionists, from Netanyahu down, are telling everyone that Israel and Judaism are one and the same - via the message "criticism of Israel is anti-semitism".

So that same message is telling the nutters here (and elsewhere) that if you want to hit back at Israel for their atrocities you simply have to target innocent Jews as they are, after all, the same thing.

Well said.
Netanyahu is fueling Anti-Semitism more than anyone. Don't tell anyone he funded Hamas for a decade either.

 

[PAFC66]

I agree that Israel–Jew conflation is a problem, and that Israeli rhetoric can sometimes blur that line. But that doesn’t make Israel’s policies the source of violence against Jews here.

Blaming Israeli actions for attacks on Australian Jews still shifts responsibility away from the extremists who choose to collapse that distinction.

The leap I don’t accept is that a change in Israel’s political course would meaningfully reduce radicalisation here. History suggests grievances change; the engine doesn’t.

A Royal Commission won’t fix the Middle East — preventing violence in Australia means dealing with ideology and enforcement locally, not assuming global politics can be resolved first.

A royal commission into anti-semitism ?isn't going to stop people's anger towards this governments ongoing support for Israel who is currently engaging in a genocide though, people are allowed to protest , hate Israel and Zionism. If our country sanctioned Israel and cut political ties with them until they stopped annexing the west bank and slaughtering Palestinians you wouldn't see 100s of thousands marching every week. This isn't extremist ideology. The line is quite clear. Once you start blaming " Jews" then that's when the book comes out but all criticism of a foreign country is fair play and has been forever.

If our government was currently supporting Russia and shipping them weapon parts to annex Ukraine (like they are for Israel) do you not expect there to be protests?

Israel uses anti-semitism as a shield for their crimes and has forever. This shit doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[RCAB]

The leap I don’t accept is that a change in Israel’s political course would meaningfully reduce radicalisation here. History suggests grievances change; the engine doesn’t.

You don't think stopping s genocide or ethnic cleansing enacted on Palestinians for nearly a century would meaningfully reduce radicalisation? That's an extreme and absurd position to take.

Secondly, the engine doesn't change in history? What are you talking about? You do realise Palestinians lived much more peacefully before Zionism took over?

 

[ferball]

If you really think about it there's no difference between Santa and whichever deity you trade off your personal responsibilities too. Be good or else the boogie man will get you.

Santa is an anagram of Satan.

That's probably why Coke used him in their ads.

 

[Daka]

These ppl are never happy...

 

[ferball]

I'm a Mick and they still are, was during Pope Francis' reign that he said the Church condones the use of condoms, only to stop people getting AIDS in Africa though. He was seen as a progressive Pope and this was one example, but really that's just slightly behind the times.

My mum is one. Most of the people running stuff in her church are very old (including her.) I'm old ffs. They're ancient.

Francis was pretty forward thinking for a pope tho and this all happened in the 21st century! So late in history. I spose the Catholic Church of the 50s was pretty backward. Still did their mass in Latin. There was this thing called Vatican 2 in the 1960s. It was the second time (in about 2000 years!!) that they got together to think about updating how they responded to their followers and whatever. IT probably made the church fairly progressive (for a church) till about 25 years later when the conservative backlash kicked in, just before the child abuse stuff started getting attention.

I'll say this for the Christians tho, where mum lives every denomination in town used to get together and run a winter homeless shelter until some political (not party politics just people politics) bullshit wrecked it. They gave up time, money, went out of their comfort zones and really made an effort to help people.

One more thing - the child abuse wasn't just the Catholic Church. The RC was into institutional abuse and it was happening everywhere including secular organisations. Its obviously an issue with people having power, not just something to do with one religion or another.

 

[Gavin Excell]

These ppl are never happy...

Only Prue MacSween can provide the necessary guidance as Commissioner at this time

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

These ppl are never happy...

FMD Josh when you say "the total confidence of the Jewish community" I highly doubt you're thinking of, say, the Jewish Council of Australia, who are pretty much diametrically opposed to any of your positions on anything.

The Jewish community, like all communities, is wide and diverse.

Josh Frydenburg does not speak for all Jews.

 

[Gough]

It's telling of his ability as a Parliamentarian that Frydenburg is now relying on the sympathy vote as a means to win back Kooyong.

 

[jathanas]

You don't think stopping s genocide or ethnic cleansing enacted on Palestinians for nearly a century would meaningfully reduce radicalisation? That's an extreme and absurd position to take.

Secondly, the engine doesn't change in history? What are you talking about? You do realise Palestinians lived much more peacefully before Zionism took over?

That’s not what I said — and it rests on a false history.

There was no long period of peaceful coexistence that was “broken” by Zionism. Jewish–Arab violence in the region predates the State of Israel by decades, and Islamist radicalism today draws far more from ideology than from any single territorial dispute.

Ending a war can reduce suffering. It does not automatically dismantle extremist belief systems — history shows those adapt, migrate, and reattach to new grievances.

That’s the point: changing policy may matter morally, but it doesn’t switch off the engine of radicalisation.

 

[RCAB]

That’s not what I said — and it rests on a false history.

There was no long period of peaceful coexistence that was “broken” by Zionism. Jewish–Arab violence in the region predates the State of Israel by decades, and Islamist radicalism today draws far more from ideology than from any single territorial dispute.

Ending a war can reduce suffering. It does not automatically dismantle extremist belief systems — history shows those adapt, migrate, and reattach to new grievances.

That’s the point: changing policy may matter morally, but it doesn’t switch off the engine of radicalisation.

My question was:

You do realise Palestinians lived much more peacefully before Zionism took over?

You answered it (didn't address it all, just another vague opinion without facts) by telling everyone... that you don't know, they lived in peace before Zionism took over.

 

[MPMonkeys]

My question was:

You do realise Palestinians lived much more peacefully before Zionism took over?

You answered it (didn't address it all, just another vague opinion without facts) by telling everyone... that you don't know, they lived in peace before Zionism took over.

What does that have to do with a Jewish Australian living here?

Why aren't people black-banning Russian businesses and artists?
Why are there no weekly protests with the Russian flag being burnt?

The reason is simple. Israel gives people a chance for people to unleash their true colours - and that is their unwavering hatred of Jews. People can dress it all up as much as they like but the fact that Jewish schools, churches and nursing homes need armed guards patrolling outside is sickening.

And its because of the cowards who hide behind 'Zionism' whilst preaching their vile hatred. Lets hope any RC exposes some of you.

 

[Chief]

Why aren't people black-banning Russian businesses and artists?

Name the ones with flags up in their windows proclaiming support for Putin against Ukraine.

Why are there no weekly protests with the Russian flag being burnt?

I believe there have been a lot of protests in support of Ukraine.

 

[Hoop1888]

What does that have to do with a Jewish Australian living here?

Why aren't people black-banning Russian businesses and artists?
Why are there no weekly protests with the Russian flag being burnt?

The reason is simple. Israel gives people a chance for people to unleash their true colours - and that is their unwavering hatred of Jews. People can dress it all up as much as they like but the fact that Jewish schools, churches and nursing homes need armed guards patrolling outside is sickening

Not trying to be facetious, but could you give reasons why people hate Jews/the religion, aside from nonsense like 'they rule the world, banks, have control of the media' and any of the other daft nonsense.

Ffs, if a Prime Minister puts a label on some of Australia or <insert country> that it has an antisemetic problem, people are going to take issue with that alone. The Israeli government don't even put in much effort when they try to smear other countries & people cop on to it now.

 

[MPMonkeys]

Name the ones with flags up in their windows proclaiming support for Putin against Ukraine.

I believe there have been a lot of protests in support of Ukraine.

No Jewish business does that. They cop enough crap as it is. Why would they invite more hate.

 

[MPMonkeys]

Not trying to be facetious, but could you give reasons why people hate Jews/the religion, aside from nonsense like 'they rule the world, banks, have control of the media' and any of the other daft nonsense.

Ffs, if a Prime Minister puts a label on some of Australia or <insert country> that it has an antisemetic problem, people are going to take issue with that alone. The Israeli government don't even put in much effort when they try to smear other countries & people cop on to it now.

I have no idea why people hate Jews. You are asking the wrong person.

 

[jathanas]

Name the ones with flags up in their windows proclaiming support for Putin against Ukraine.

...

How many Russian places of worship, schools, houses, cars, etc., were bombed and desecrated over the past 2 years?

 

[Hoop1888]

I have no idea why people hate Jews. You are asking the wrong person.

As has been mentioned numerous times on here, it's more a case of not Jewish people being hated, it's the Israeli government carrying out a genocide.

I agree that folk shouldn't have armed guards where they go to practice their religion, but there are nutters out there, unfortunately.

 

[MPMonkeys]

As has been mentioned numerous times on here, it's more a case of not Jewish people being hated, it's the Israeli government carrying out a genocide.

I agree that folk shouldn't have armed guards where they go to practice their religion, but there are nutters out there, unfortunately.

Israel is the cloak behind which anti-semites hide.

 

[faible]

How many Russian places of worship, schools, houses, cars, etc., were bombed and desecrated over the past 2 years?

The Australian Government was pretty quick to condemn and sanction Russia, and support Ukraine. There's no major Russian community group(s) I'm aware of shouting support for the actions of Russia, no politicians saying 'Russia has the right to self-defence'.

No, Jews in Australia aren't responsible for the actions of Israel as a nation state, and it's not right that the Jewish community has suffered abuse and discrimination (and worse) because of it. Nor is it right that the Islamic community suffers abuse and discrimination because of the actions of extremist groups like ISIS for that matter.

But pretending Israel committing a genocide whilst many Jewish organisations and politicians equivocate saying 'yeah maybe it's not good but self-defence and stuff and they're still the good guys and we don't want to sanction anyone' is the same as Russia invading Ukraine where everyone just said 'yeah this is bad we're going to sanction them and support Ukraine' is highly reductive.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Poor old Susssn is an absolute dope

She's not very bright and i'm being kind