Hot Topic Will Elijah Hollands get another gig at Carlton?

[Aphrodite]

No speculating on alleged 'rumours'

Thanks all!

Folks, this is the way things are here.

Posters are responsible for what they post. Moderators can not attest to the accuracy or otherwise of any rumour posted.

Moderators will intervene for a couple of reasons.

1. If a thread is threatening to be derailed because of a post.

2. If invested parties request the removal of material.

None of this draws a conclusion as to the accuracy or otherwise of the original post.

There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.
Click to expand...

Also, you need to remember that this thread like all parts of this forum is bound by the rules of poster conduct. If you want to express skepticism towards a rumour that's fine, but having a crack at posters who are contributors to this forum is simply not on and will be acted upon.

Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[Opium]

My problem with White is not effort or pace. Think he has enough of both to succeed, but my issue is that his first touch is not good enough. Small forwards do not get 2 grabs, they will occasionally tap the ball on if under immediate pressure (a la Cameron, Betts), but as a rule they need to handle to ball at speed. Unfortunately it is a skill that White is just not good enough at.

Look at his highlights from his first year in the system. Now he'll also have a full pre season under his belt.

 

[Blue By Blood]

To me, the one grab/touch part of the game is a more confidence thing and getting up to the speed of the game.
Need to focus on that one moment of collecting the ball cleanly firstly and then worry about using it.

Maybe a little bit of confidence but there are players that are just naturally clean one touch and there are those that always struggle. It's less trainable than other traits I mentioned above.

Remember a guy we drafted maybe 4 or so years back who looked the goods.. had speed, athleticism, some mongrel, size etc.. a lot of traits that are needed to be great. But he kept fumbling and just couldn't ever improve that despite being given opportunity. Sam Philp was the name.

Point is I really think there is only limited scope to improve cleanliness with the hands. A player largely either has that ability or they don't. If it's just a confidence issue (which I doubt) then sure we should see an improvement. Personally I think White is much the same as what we already have.

If we are going to go down the small forward path we need a genuine x-factor small who hits a pack at speed and reads the ball off the hands. Not one who plays as a high half forward. Where is a genuine crumber in our team? Nearly every team has a genuine crumber except for us. We have a heap of half forwards who like to push up and be higher up the ground but no close to goal specialists eg. Higgins, Cameron, Papley, Hill, Stengle, Rankine etc. We don't necessarily need a star there but someone who actually plays like a small forward and gives the opposition something to think about.

 

[Lukeblueboy]

Look at his highlights from his first year in the system. Now he'll also have a full pre season under his belt.

Geez I forgot how elusive he was.
Got a fair case there young will.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Highly unlikely

As long as they don’t leave a spot “open” for the mid season draft I’ll back them whatever they do.
Put your house on us having another season ending injury by then

 

[teddy-hopkins]

WW has got that extra bit of speed that Fogarty misses. He's also pretty creative with how he uses the ball.

He's only 21 and played 10 games so very unlucky to not be still on the list given his output.

Putting him up against EH for one spot makes it difficult for him as Elijah can make a case to be our best 3 or 4 players once he's fully focused - which he is at the moment.

But with the extra spot opening up - and our list manager's love of all things small forward - I think he's sure to get the spot.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Don't think Elijah or Ollie did the time trial

They’re a fair way ahead

 

[Garters]

What happened to Wes Walley?

Still looking for him.

 

[goreds]

What happened to Wes Walley?

Can someone confirm if he has been training??

This kid has some real talent and great hands...

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Yeah logic would suggest EH gets his last chance now that Mots will be on LTI list. KPD to fill in the other spot.

 

[Dooky]

Perceptions of behavioural issues aside - any reason why another club wouldn't jump in front of us and sign Elijah before we can (like the Oleg Markov situation)?

 

[marcmurphy3]

Perceptions of behavioural issues aside - any reason why another club wouldn't jump in front of us and sign Elijah before we can (like the Oleg Markov situation)?

They easily could though anyone could have taken him as a delisted free agent a few months back and they didnt. But with a full pre-season under his belt and reportedly going well, he might be a more appealing prospect now then he was.

Though I think he'd give us first option if he got an offer. And if we are leaning towards taking him we probably just sign him on the spot.

I doubt we let him walk because we want another 2 weeks to make a decision.

Danger of getting taken by someone else was probably more real in December. We are close enough to the deadline now, that we can just make the call a couple weeks early if required.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

They easily could though anyone could have taken him as a delisted free agent a few months back and they didnt. But with a full pre-season under his belt and reportedly going well, he might be a more appealing prospect now then he was.

Though I think he'd give us first option if he got an offer. And if we are leaning towards taking him we probably just sign him on the spot.

I doubt we let him walk because we want another 2 weeks to make a decision.

Danger of getting taken by someone else was probably more real in December. We are close enough to the deadline now, that we can just make the call a couple weeks early if required.

I'd be surprised if his manager is hearing from other clubs all the time. They'll be aware that he's winning our time trials and is our best player in match sim... and is currently available for free.

 

[The Bighouse]

I think being clean and a one grab player is about the last thing a player can improve on. You can tidy up hand and foot skills, you can train situational and game awareness, you can train composure to a degree, you can work on running technique to improve speed, you can train to improve endurance.. but that natural ability to be clean and one grab is very hard to improve significantly.

Sam Philp unfort

 

[BeijingBlue]

Maybe a little bit of confidence but there are players that are just naturally clean one touch and there are those that always struggle. It's less trainable than other traits I mentioned above.

Remember a guy we drafted maybe 4 or so years back who looked the goods.. had speed, athleticism, some mongrel, size etc.. a lot of traits that are needed to be great. But he kept fumbling and just couldn't ever improve that despite being given opportunity. Sam Philp was the name.

Point is I really think there is only limited scope to improve cleanliness with the hands. A player largely either has that ability or they don't. If it's just a confidence issue (which I doubt) then sure we should see an improvement. Personally I think White is much the same as what we already have.

If we are going to go down the small forward path we need a genuine x-factor small who hits a pack at speed and reads the ball off the hands. Not one who plays as a high half forward. Where is a genuine crumber in our team? Nearly every team has a genuine crumber except for us. We have a heap of half forwards who like to push up and be higher up the ground but no close to goal specialists eg. Higgins, Cameron, Papley, Hill, Stengle, Rankine etc. We don't necessarily need a star there but someone who actually plays like a small forward and gives the opposition something to think about.

As was said to me by a recruiter from another club. The first criteria when looking at a player is... do they fumble. If so, that player is crossed off the list.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

If whites winning this time trial and Elijah is nowhere near it, then, it looks like we may go White over Lij. But there is two spots I guess. Paying the guy that has earnt it over the potential is a way better look. But we do need to start taking risks.

Picking 3 smalls in the SSP last year wasn’t a risk.

The time trial is run for social media content. Not a good gauge of in game running ability

 

[goreds]

The time trial is run for social media content. Not a good gauge of in game running ability

100% agree with this...

This whole 'oxygen brothers' garbage that people used to go on with, drove me nuts...

I don't care if someone can run all day, I care if they can get the ball first, kick extremely well and know where the goals are...

One of our greatest players ever was Greg Williams (who would STILL get a game today), he could run all day but just not very fast, he had banged up knees so never did the time trials. He had ELITE vision, hands, kicking and knew where the goals were...

There is a reason why clubs (smart clubs) hire sprint coaches!

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Look at his highlights from his first year in the system. Now he'll also have a full pre season under his belt.

Its not irrelevant but I think you need to at least put an # against any performance against West Coast and North, especially the Good Friday game where they were non competitive.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

As was said to me by a recruiter from another club. The first criteria when looking at a player is... do they fumble. If so, that player is crossed off the list.

Are we just accepting that WW just fumbles all the time? I've never noticed it. There's some pretty good evidence to the contrary in the Youtube video.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

Are we just accepting that WW just fumbles all the time? I've never noticed it. There's some pretty good evidence to the contrary in the Youtube video.

WW goal accuracy is much more of a concern than his ball handling

 

[JustaBattler]

Fordst year player getting unfairly criticised ....I think White has all the attributes to develop into a strong AFL player and thet Club has erred in delisting him based on his on field performance - there are weaker players to point fingers at.

 

[Countryblueswitnotattoos]

WW goal accuracy is much more of a concern than his ball handling

He was definitely shaky in his first 5 games (2.7). But he improved as the year went on, kicking 8.4 in his last 8 games.

What I espcially like with WW is his decision making and execution when kicking inside 50.

 

[Coona Blues]

Fordst year player getting unfairly criticised ....I think White has all the attributes to develop into a strong AFL player and thet Club has erred in delisting him based on his on field performance - there are weaker players to point fingers at.

It is a numbers and contract game. Fell out at the wrong time FWIW, I like Flynn Young, but with the off season recruitment, I am surprised Young was preferred to White with the wash up. (Perhaps they were confident the Carlton mad kid would hang around)

 

[Juddernaut08]

It is a numbers and contract game. Fell out at the wrong time FWIW, I like Flynn Young, but with the off season recruitment, I am surprised Young was preferred to White with the wash up. (Perhaps they were confident the Carlton mad kid would hang around)

also depth chart, does WW offer something that different? (particularly before Motlop went down).

If we have Williams and Ainsworth as the main two.
Evans as the best late 2025 form.
Motlop/WW/Fog are in the mix for maybe the bench spot.

 

[The Bighouse]

It is a numbers and contract game. Fell out at the wrong time FWIW, I like Flynn Young, but with the off season recruitment, I am surprised Young was preferred to White with the wash up. (Perhaps they were confident the Carlton mad kid would hang around)

We also like to give MSD draftees time in the system to get a chance to prove themselves.
Since DeLuca anyway, under the new regime.

 

[katmanblue]

Fordst year player getting unfairly criticised ....I think White has all the attributes to develop into a strong AFL player and thet Club has erred in delisting him based on his on field performance - there are weaker players to point fingers at.

I think timing of contracts hampered the delistings.

Multi year contract extensions to borderline players in 2023+24 has bitten us in the arse.