Vic The joke that is the Victorian Liberal Party.

[AlwaysHawks15]

Ashamed to say that parts of that video did make me chuckle slightly. Probably one of their better efforts and feel like it could gain some traction.

There already in a winning position, this is more about trying to turn the ON voters back to them.

 

[The Punter]

The platforms that will see it are full of LNP supporters. It's a raging hit on X, FB etc. using taxpayers money for political stunts doesn't matter if it's kicking the Labor party. Yes I'm well aware it's not THAT much they actually spent on it but if your running with the "State has run out of money" narrative it flies in the face a bit.

Should the LNP have no staff? The only cost would be the cost of the staff, which weren't extra staff. The Opposition Leader gets a staff, and some of them are media advisors, and one of them is a social media advisor (like all ministers BTW).

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Should the LNP have no staff? The only cost would be the cost of the staff, which weren't extra staff. The Opposition Leader gets a staff, and some of them are media advisors, and one of them is a social media advisor (like all ministers BTW).

Not disagreeing with that. But the perception will be " hang on I thought she said we were broke" to people that don't understand the mechanism around making ads such as this.

 

[Sttew]

The platforms that will see it are full of LNP supporters. It's a raging hit on X, FB etc. using taxpayers money for political stunts doesn't matter if it's kicking the Labor party. Yes I'm well aware it's not THAT much they actually spent on it but if your running with the "State has run out of money" narrative it flies in the face a bit.

What makes you think the LNP is using taxpayer money for advertising? It's not the government and doesn't have access to the state credit card. Every penny it spends is its money.

You do know the Victorian Government has enacted legislation to prevent public funds from being used to promote party political interests?

 

[Titch3Votes0MooreAA]

The platforms that will see it are full of LNP supporters. It's a raging hit on X, FB etc. using taxpayers money for political stunts doesn't matter if it's kicking the Labor party. Yes I'm well aware it's not THAT much they actually spent on it but if your running with the "State has run out of money" narrative it flies in the face a bit.

This isn't fully true. That Commonwealth Games video has attracted over 1.5 million Instagram views. My son (he's 17) said people he knows that have next to no political interest otherwise liked the video. So whoever Jess Wilson has had as her media and social media advisor is clearly doing something right, even if it's a cringey video. Important too was that it wasn't just her but a great deal of her team.

Also, it's absolute nonsense that they've used taxpayers' money for it. For a start, that video wouldn't even need much to setup. The only thing that would be taxpayers' money is if they've boosted the post, which wouldn't be a violation anyway, as MPs are allowed that under their electorate office budgets.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

This isn't fully true. That Commonwealth Games video has attracted over 1.5 million Instagram views. My son (he's 17) said people he knows that have next to no political interest otherwise liked the video. So whoever Jess Wilson has had as her media and social media advisor is clearly doing something right, even if it's a cringey video. Important too was that it wasn't just her but a great deal of her team.

Also, it's absolute nonsense that they've used taxpayers' money for it. For a start, that video wouldn't even need much to setup. The only thing that would be taxpayers' money is if they've boosted the post, which wouldn't be a violation anyway, as MPs are allowed that under their electorate office budgets.

It's cost about 250k FWIW, from what I've heard. It's definitely worked. Never said it wasn't allowed under any code of conduct. Jacinta is a dead woman walking. There only hope is for Carroll to sort he's shit out with the teachers dispute and put he's hat in the ring. They would surely know they are in trouble just on internal polling alone.

 

[The Punter]

It's cost about 250k FWIW, from what I've heard. It's definitely worked. Never said it wasn't allowed under any code of conduct. Jacinta is a dead woman walking. There only hope is for Carroll to sort he's shit out with the teachers dispute and put he's hat in the ring. They would surely know they are in trouble just on internal polling alone.

Can you explain how it cost 250k compared to the situation where everyone in their current roles still has them but they just didn't shoot and post that specific video?

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Can you explain how it cost 250k compared to the situation where everyone in their current roles still has them but they just didn't shoot and post that specific video?

Not verified but I heard it was around that mark. Probably wrong.

 

[The Punter]

Not verified but I heard it was around that mark. Probably wrong.

Yet there your original assertion stays, like a gym sock on a shower rod.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Yet there your original assertion stays, like a gym sock on a shower rod.

We have all made unsubstantiated claims so don't pretend otherwise

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Yet there your original assertion stays, like a gym sock on a shower rod.

Your also on the payroll based on your previous posting so I get your taking this personally.

 

[The Punter]

We have all made unsubstantiated claims so don't pretend otherwise

I'm happy for you to provide any example of me doing this. You will find plenty of posts from me with links to sources.

I'm a party member but not in the employ of any Liberal MP or the organisation currently.

The 250k claim is fantastical.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

I'm happy for you to provide any example of me doing this. You will find plenty of posts from me with links to sources.

I'm a party member but not in the employ of any Liberal MP or the organisation currently.

The 250k claim is fantastical.

Right so outside your area of expertise which is Liberal Victoria you haven't made assumptions on things you think might be happening? Were all guilty of it.

 

[The Punter]

Right so outside your area of expertise which is Liberal Victoria you haven't made assumptions on things you think might be happening? Were all guilty of it.

Assumptions and claims aren't the same thing, but once again, happy for you to quote an assumption from me on here. I won't quarrel on this point any more if one is found.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Assumptions and claims aren't the same thing, but once again, happy for you to quote an assumption from me on here. I won't quarrel on this point any more if one is found.

Pretty sure they are the same thing. Both making comments without proof of evidence. Feel free to look it up if you like.

 

[Titch3Votes0MooreAA]

It's cost about 250k FWIW, from what I've heard. It's definitely worked. Never said it wasn't allowed under any code of conduct. Jacinta is a dead woman walking. There only hope is for Carroll to sort he's shit out with the teachers dispute and put he's hat in the ring. They would surely know they are in trouble just on internal polling alone.

There's no chance in hell that video cost $250,000. Anyone could do that for about 2 cents. But yes, their internal polling has them on track to lose 20-odd seats as of right now and Jacinta's own seat. And yes, Ben Carroll is their hope. But even he will have a much harder time vs Wilson than if it was against Battin. Additionally, despite being in the opposite faction, he's equally complicit in the dreadful incompetence and corruption of this government.

Anyway, I will not argue against a fellow Hawthorn supporter.

 

[Saint]

The problem the ad is trying to address, to me, are:

Division. By having many MPs participate it makes them look like a team.

Relevance. These days, it pays to either be very good or pretty bad, almost comical. If it's just middling it wont get as much algorithmic traction.

 

[Saint]

At least the libs have a platform to run on: waste and corruption.

And they arent being led by Matthew Guy who is best known for his corruption.

The current leader, being young, wont be as tainted by previous LNP corruption and waste (nationally as well as locally). Just having a woman as leader is a decent amount of separation from the old corrupt men of the national Liberal Party.

 

[Sphynx]

A good question for the people who went out and secured them with a plan everyone knew wouldn't work.

The Commonwealth Games was an entirely foreseeable and preventable waste of taxpayers money.

Depends on your perspective.

I saw plenty of the prelim construction and development plans for it.

My personal opinion at the time was that it was as good a use of public money as any of the other infrastructure projects. I liked it a lot.

It’s very easy to lob big numbers into the argument, vaguely associating with things like stadiums.

The majority of the money was public transport upgrades, road, infrastructure hubs to regional areas like Bendigo, Ballarat and Gippsland. I know because I did early costings on it.

I saw plenty of public amenities and legacy projects that would have serviced those towns for decades.

Instead of the urban sprawl and ****ing with Melbournes subruban makeup and way of life, trying to turn parts of it into high density New York (which most melbournians do not want) , a much better solution would have been the investment in country Victoria so as to divert plenty of the immigration to those areas after a huge public infrastructure initiative to these areas.

It was an easy kill and public event to get behind that would have facilitated bulk investment into country VIC.

You say $600m, I say less than 0.5% of the cost of the SRL.

Realistically it equals the slippage and wastage from the 4-5 EBA handout overs the government give the unions during its construction.

 

[The Punter]

Depends on your perspective.

I saw plenty of the prelim construction and development plans for it.

My personal opinion at the time was that it was as good a use of public money as any of the other infrastructure projects. I liked it a lot.

It’s very easy to lob big numbers into the argument, vaguely associating with things like stadiums.

The majority of the money was public transport upgrades, road, infrastructure hubs to regional areas like Bendigo, Ballarat and Gippsland. I know because I did early costings on it.

I saw plenty of public amenities and legacy projects that would have serviced those towns for decades.

Instead of the urban sprawl and ****ing with Melbournes subruban makeup and way of life, trying to turn parts of it into high density New York (which most melbournians do not want) , a much better solution would have been the investment in country Victoria so as to divert plenty of the immigration to those areas after a huge public infrastructure initiative to these areas.

It was an easy kill and public event to get behind that would have facilitated bulk investment into country VIC.

You say $600m, I say less than 0.5% of the cost of the SRL.

Realistically it equals the slippage and wastage from the 4-5 EBA handout overs the government give the unions during its construction.

The infrastructure spend was obviously the best thing about the proposal. But they didn't budget for police and security, which was another obvious mistake.

To build the stuff would have cost what it was going to cost, it was all needed and worthwhile.

The cost of actually running a decentralised games all around Victoria was the bit that should have acknowledged before the games were secured.

 

[Sphynx]

The infrastructure spend was obviously the best thing about the proposal. But they didn't budget for police and security, which was another obvious mistake.

To build the stuff would have cost what it was going to cost, it was all needed and worthwhile.

The cost of actually running a decentralised games all around Victoria was the bit that should have acknowledged before the games were secured.

I don’t see it any different to the construction process itself.

Workers are required to be paid working away from home, travel etc because of the labor force required to build in regional areas.

We don’t have the policing and emergency services numbers in those areas so we pay as required.

The difference here is that there’s no fixed benefit to emergency services overtime and allowances at the end of the project like a new tram line. Unless there’s then an opportunity to upgrade th emergency services infrastructure of these towns also…. Who would ever want to invest in the CFA etc in regional areas..


If we say the emergency services cost would have been a relative waste. By extension virtually every regional project is a major waste and should be built in Metro.


Outside of this there is than the tourism, exposure and good will of spreading some love into our regional areas that help to feed us.

It’s funny these things aren’t raised as a major wastage issue with one particular union vs the police and firefighters unions.

It’s because direct costs like policing and firefighting is heavily scrutinized, where as regional union benefits are buried in project budgeting and turned a blind eye too.

I feel sorry for emergency services in this state. They get a raw deal by comparison. Simply because the government doesn’t have to publicly justify its other comparative spends.

 

[The Punter]

I don’t see it any different to the construction process itself.

Workers are required to be paid working away from home, travel etc because of the labor force required to build in regional areas.

We don’t have the policing and emergency services numbers in those areas so we pay as required.

The difference here is that there’s no fixed benefit to emergency services overtime and allowances at the end of the project like a new tram line. Unless there’s then an opportunity to upgrade th emergency services infrastructure of these towns also…. Who would ever want to invest in the CFA etc in regional areas..


If we say the emergency services cost would have been a relative waste. By extension virtually every regional project is a major waste and should be built in Metro.


Outside of this there is than the tourism, exposure and good will of spreading some love into our regional areas that help to feed us.

It’s funny these things aren’t raised as a major wastage issue with one particular union vs the police and firefighters unions.

It’s because direct costs like policing and firefighting is heavily scrutinized, where as regional union benefits are buried in project budgeting and turned a blind eye too.

I feel sorry for emergency services in this state. They get a raw deal by comparison. Simply because the government doesn’t have to publicly justify its other comparative spends.

I'm not saying the emergency services cost was a waste, I'm saying if it had been included in original estimates of the costs to run the games, the games would have been deemed too expensive at that stage and never secured, saving the Victorian taxpayer $600m.

There's no getting around the Comm Games bid included many inexcusable mistakes that should not have been made.

 

[Sphynx]

I'm not saying the emergency services cost was a waste, I'm saying if it had been included in original estimates of the costs to run the games, the games would have been deemed too expensive at that stage and never secured, saving the Victorian taxpayer $600m.

There's no getting around the Comm Games bid included many inexcusable mistakes that should not have been made.

OK.

So like virtually EVERY public project for the last 15-20 years?

How was it any different?

I doubt there is a road, tunnel or train station in this state that would have been greenlit prior with the real final costings in hand.

Budgets don’t exist for these projects. They are political statements with absolutely zero accountability attached to them.

They aren’t fixed, they aren’t tracked live during their construction, they aren’t scrutinized and they often aren’t even fully vetted on completion.

Why do you think the union/OMG has been able to yield so much out of them?

They are D&C in most cases and have no real design when the costings are announced.

We might get a vague 10 lines on the 10th page of the newspaper 3 years after the job is done and 10 years after the announcement with some cost overrun “estimates”. Who cares, it’s a different minister, different premier or different ruling party..

 

[The Punter]

OK.

So like virtually EVERY public project for the last 15-20 years?

How was it any different?

I doubt there is a road, tunnel or train station in this state that would have been greenlit prior with the real final costings in hand.

Budgets don’t exist for these projects. They are political statements with absolutely zero accountability attached to them.

They aren’t fixed, they aren’t tracked live during their construction, they aren’t scrutinized and they often aren’t even fully vetted on completion.

Why do you think the union/OMG has been able to yield so much out of them?

They are D&C in most cases and have no real design when the costings are announced.

We might get a vague 10 lines on the 10th page of the newspaper 3 years after the job is done and 10 years after the announcement with some cost overrun “estimates”. Who cares, it’s a different minister, different premier or different ruling party..

I know many, many people are unhappy with the status quo. A pox on all their houses.

But "they're all the same" also creates a permission structure for them to remain all the same. The accountability measure of One Nation's rise in the polls is no bad thing, the issue is who people are flocking to. For pete's sake, the inner city were trying to tell us this for year either through the Greens or the Teals. We need to do better. But if we expect poor performance, that's what we will get.

That doesn't mean I'll stop calling out obvious mistakes when they are obviously made. The SRL was designed on the back of a napkin according to former Labor Ministerial Advisors I've spoken to on the subject. This is not the way things should be done.

I'd like someone to explain the benefit to the government of the relationship with the CFMEU, but it always gets derailed through pointing at developers and both sidesing the argument.

We need better. IMO (and plenty of others' O) One Nation definitely are not the answer: they do not possess the competence, the temperament or the judgement to implement the required policies to get government administration back to where it needs to be. But at least politically and electorally, we're heading for a moment of reckoning.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

But "they're all the same" also creates a permission structure for them to remain all the same. The accountability measure of One Nation's rise in the polls is no bad thing, the issue is who people are flocking to. For pete's sake, the inner city were trying to tell us this for year either through the Greens or the Teals. We need to do better. But if we expect poor performance, that's what we will get.

The problem is the people who should be doing better still aren't listening. The Liberals housing plan shows it. More houses in the outer suburbs isn't the answer anymore.
To actually listen will require both sides to sacrifice a bit.

I'd like someone to explain the benefit to the government of the relationship with the CFMEU, but it always gets derailed through pointing at developers and both sidesing the argument.

Wouldn't having a good relationship with all stakeholders be beneficial?