Autopsy Round 02 Swans defeated by Hawthorn

[SwansProudly]

A hard fought contest against the Hawks at the MCG but we go down by 17-points.

 

[the hypnotoad]

Let alone the 357 times when we had two (or even three a couple of times) defenders go for the same ball and take each other out. Do they think its silent football or something..... we do it week in, week out and it invariably costs us a couple of goals every week.


We will have to try it at some point or we will break Grundy a long time before the finals. Amartey and McDonald are not the answers in the ruck at the best of times, let alone against two genuine rucks.


The end is coming quick for both of them sadly. I think Rampe playing the right role in the back 6 still has enough to give, but I just don't see it with Lloyd in this wing/half forward flank sort of role. He isn't a goal threat, he hasn't got the pace to provide significant pressure act, has never been a particularly amazing tackler.

They may well still be there all season, but equally it would not surprise me if both drop out of the team by about the mid point of the season either.

the moment that summed up lloyd was the mark he took just on the 50 ... there were options in the forward 50, one i think was blakey breaking into space to his left (would've been a 35-40m shot on an angle) but as has become habit with lloyd, he second-guessed and stopped, and seemed to take an age to eventually decide he'd have the shot ... which i thought from a standing start was beyond him, and he did actually hit it well, hit the post ...
but everything stopped while he made up his mind ... usually with him that happens in the defensive half, but more often than not when he gets the ball his first thought is to stop and look around, and he's a regular momentum killer
i'd much prefer the blakey/bice/mcinerney/ch warner/gulden) "let's go" method ... yes, sometimes things don't come off, but when they do it almost always ignites a forward surge that ends up in a shot at goal
i don't think we can afford lloyd's stop-start ways much longer

 

[The King!]

We probably and I'm generalising , long for the contested tough, never out of it swannies that won the 2 flags and were some variation of tough teams. No real flash they just mucked in.

If we are waiting for that to happen with this lot we are waiting a while, that's not a bad thing per say , just need to get 5% more of that I think when the games against us.

 

[bedford]

Sorry to be “that guy”, but I think a few people are overselling Rosas game.

He hardly touched it after the first 10 minutes. Was fumbly when he did get near it. And I’m not sure I see that much defensive pressure - it’s certainly no more than what Hayward used to offer.

He’s never going to be a high-possession player, but last night he was part of a very poor forward line.

But - there is an excuse for Rosas last night, because unless the talls start halving contests & bringing it to ground, Rosas is always going to be limited in what he can do.

Agree , might be another Robbie Ahmat

 

[dosser]

Kudos to the Hawks for being able to stop our run and forcing us to kick long. Their tactics were obvious from our kick ins where we would spot up a player about 30m away and then try to run past them to get the overlap game going. However, the man on the mark didn't start moving up to support their midfield, but instead moved forward to block the path of the player who just kicked it. This will be the blueprint to beating us and good sides will do it a lot. We need to find another way.

In the meantime, we lost Heeney and Gulden so the best taggers went to Chad and JMac so we had nothing left in the midfield. By doing that and stopping the run of Liz we were stuffed and the only thing that kept us in it was their inaccuracy. We should have lost by 6 goals.

 

[Banyo Bloods]

For the next 15 days or so we will still be above Hawthorn on the ladder so there's that.

 

[Jack2Jack]

Need another few matches of sample. There were a lot of factors 5 day break being one of the biggest. Needing to find a way to replace 2 stars on a 5 day break etc.

If that's a sign of things to come without Gulden we'll be getting pummelled a bit by the good sides and will be fighting it on for a wildcard spot, on the flipside if that is the 26 version example of us on a really bad day and turns out to be one of our worst performances, then we're probably going to be a pretty good side.

Some of the same old was disappointing (particularly some of those simple mistakes from defenders), but it was never going to disappear in the space of 3 matches.
The bottom 6 players and the depth was the concern coming into the year and highlighted last night, you just hope a couple Mids/HF's in the VFL play really well to the point they're genuine AFL options every week...genuine pressure for spots probably hasn't been there, understand probably the most likely candidates to do that were also working their way back from injuries so weren't an option last night.

 

[heeney2curnow]

We'll get them back in September

 

[RedOrWhite]

yeah, that's pretty much it ... hawthorn will play finals and were close to full strength, we came off a short week with major injury disruption, yet (to me) we still looked likely to win into the last quarter ... then, yeah, we just got overrun ... and that was with several players a bit off what they've shown the first two weeks (amartey, mccartin, blakey, bice ... although those last two weren't terrible)
but it was good that we still tried to take the game on and run it as we have been, there's no sign that without gulden and heeney we were going into our shells, it just didn't all click like it has been
rampe and lloyd struggled, and cleary and corey warner just don't seem up to that level yet
chad warner is really trying, working hard, but things just not going right for him
i thought sheldrick was really good again, mcdonald was good in his third game in more than a year
and serong is gonna be a star, a great pick-up
a really frustrating result but definitely not as dire as some will make out

and: commentary was unbearable, i watched on mute for a lot of it ... and regards umpiring, it's not necessarily the decisions that go against us, it's the non-decisions ... i think it was the second quarter but hawthorn ended up with two goals after a series of non-calls that really stifled our momentum ... among other things ...

oh, and i really don't like thursday night football

I hate when we have to play Thursday night, especially when we come off the Saturday night game the week before. But don't mind it when it's not us.

And I thought the umps were bad full stop.

 

[The King!]

Mills has had a good start to the year and been crucial down back. Had some odd spoils last night and dump kicks though .

Do we need to with Gulden out and esp Heeney be more attacking and put him back to the midfield or put Blakey into the midfield

 

[MF]

Sorry to be “that guy”, but I think a few people are overselling Rosas game.

He hardly touched it after the first 10 minutes. Was fumbly when he did get near it. And I’m not sure I see that much defensive pressure - it’s certainly no more than what Hayward used to offer.

He’s never going to be a high-possession player, but last night he was part of a very poor forward line.

But - there is an excuse for Rosas last night, because unless the talls start halving contests & bringing it to ground, Rosas is always going to be limited in what he can do.

I'm not at all insinuating it was a good game, I just don't think the criticism being levelled at him is entirely fair so came to his defence. I think the difference he's made to the front half pressure is pretty obvious. He was in the top handful of players on the ground for pressure acts and at the ground last night it was clear to see how his closing speed rushed the opposition's disposal.

2nd half was just a shit show all round for our forward line after Mitchell put Weddle and then others back there and we kept manning them up. The players still should have done better but that's something for Cox to address.

 

[Millky95]

Think we missed Heeney the forward more than anything last night

 

[heeney2curnow]

Does anyone know what happened here? I didn't see anything on the TV coverage...

"They were throwing Coke Zero cans out there … I saw one just go straight past me," Watson told Nova on Friday.

"I dunno what happened with the guy but … it just landed right next to us.

"Lucky it didn't hit any players, but yeah, a few players saw it.

"I mean, I was giving them heaps, but I'm not sure a Coke Zero bottle to the face in return would've been nice."

Hawks livewire accuses fans of throwing cans onto MCG

Hawthorn's Nick Watson says Sydney Swans supporters threw cans at him after the Hawks defeated the Swans on Thursday night.

www.abc.net.au

 

[MF]

Think we missed Heeney the forward more than anything last night

Imagine if all those times we kicked it to Corey Warner inside 50 we instead kicked it to Heeney.

 

[Jack Lord]

That game was not what I expected in many ways.

One encouraging thing in the first two rounds was that we’d been quite good in the air. Tom McCartan was becoming that intercept marker who would handball to a runner and the drive would begin from the defensive 50. Tom only took three marks last night. Melican only took one.

it was the same up forward. Charlie took two marks all night. Joel didn’t take any. It was only Logan who took five marks and I can only think of a couple in the forward 50.

That inability to win the ball was fundamental to Hawthorn winning.

Cox needs to show that he can think his way out of problems like this. Our Plan B was that infuriating kick it up the line where we were again out marked.

Maybe we were just tired. It certainly looked that way. Lots to work on

 

[Donza]

Season "begins" Rd 6.

Anything else before that is just all fluff and bs.

 

[The King!]

Just odd to be out of legs but play Cleary 49% of game time

 

[Bloods86]

You can get away with it if you have the right mix of midfielders around a player like that. But we don't, and his early season form is a significant concern. To be frank, I can fully understand why we were open (by all reports) to entertaining a trade for him. I maintain we don't really play him in a way that plays to his strengths, but equally we need a lot more from him now. He is no longer a junior in our midfield group.

I'm not sure how one can watch the first 2 games, especially the Blues game and say his form so far this season is concerning. His intensity was off last night but he still managed to blitz the rest of the side for pressure and tackles (yes, as others have pointed out tackles can be grabbing people at stoppages without hunting them down, but this is true for all mids).

 

[catchem02]

This one is hard to explain but has driven me mad for years so let me explain. The game is won by taking the ball forward so for years we kick along the boundary take a mark back of centre and stop whilst a man is maybe 20/30 metres ahead and free but then gets marked instead we don’t take that immediate kick and move the ball forward by at least one kick from the opposition instead we kick it to a pack more centre and we never mark that ball then opposition get it and take it straight down the other end . So in my mind aren’t you better to take the meters forward and then maybe something else opens up but your then a kick away from opposition goal at least .

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Just odd to be out of legs but play Cleary 49% of game time

Literally no point in him playing last night wasted selection.

Rather we went with another tall

 

[Bloods86]

Just odd to be out of legs but play Cleary 49% of game time

The way the game played out I'm not sure we really intended him to be in midfield at all.

It seemed like we were going to use him as a rotation forward but then got him into the stoppage mix and gave him 1 CB in the 3rd.

The main flaw I saw was the HTB inside 50 in the first half. The earlier give off when he could have had a shot was 50/50 for mine as to who was the better position/chance (though a confident player should take the shot), but the next one he just has to have a shot. Doesn't matter if he's not a natural goalkicker.

The rest seemed like what is seen often with any bit-part, multi-role young player. Though seems like there's a bandwagon brewing to give him the same scrutiny as the many experienced players who also had bad games. And his career is apparently over also.

For me, it's probably back to VFL next week (oh wait a bye after 1 match lol) to go back to being a main mid and one of our best there, hopefully getting a proper chance in senior mids at some point.

 

[melbournehammer]

This one is hard to explain but has driven me mad for years so let me explain. The game is won by taking the ball forward so for years we kick along the boundary take a mark back of centre and stop whilst a man is maybe 20/30 metres ahead and free but then gets marked instead we don’t take that immediate kick and move the ball forward by at least one kick from the opposition instead we kick it to a pack more centre and we never mark that ball then opposition get it and take it straight down the other end . So in my mind aren’t you better to take the meters forward and then maybe something else opens up but your then a kick away from opposition goal at least .

its risk v reward. teams are encouraged to spread on offence and compress on defence. If you play on quickly and miss the target your defence is screwed because they are unable to get back. this is even more the case this year where the anyone stands who is within 5 metres rule makes it impossible to either guard the mark or guard space. so playing on quickly and miss and you lose a goal.

most of our goals came from turnovers effected and quick play through the corridor starting in defence or from the centre square. so when our best users get it - mills, blakey they give it to mcinerney or blakey or warner through the middle and then we have a shot. when our poor users get it they prop until they see something they like even if it is back towards the boundary.

In the third quarter someone hand passed to mccartin who was running past with a view to entering fifty. he panicked and blazed and the ball went down the other end in three kicks. i dont think hawthorn goaled but they had an easy shot and then the ball was stuck in our defensive fifty for a few more minutes. the choice of having him kick it into fifty was poor his kick was poor and the reward from just slamming it forward was low.

but thats footy. sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt

 

[giantsully]

Down our 2 best and most important players, coming off a 5 day break, and we just ran out of gas.

Unfortunate, but not the end of the world.

Good summary - main takeaway for me was we need a plan B for when the stun & gun isn't working - and "kick it long to Charlie" seems likely to be no more successful than "kick it long to Dosser" as a Plan B.

 

[caesar88]

I thought we looked tired and off the boil from the first minute of the game. I think the five-day break off the very physical Lions game hurt us and I think that was best proven by the fact Warner Jr., who was the only one who didn't play in that game to start with, looked to be moving better than basically anyone else in the team.

It's so early in the season to be getting a five-day break. For context we just played our third game, and I just got a notification of a memory from this day five years ago, and it was from our first game of the season in 2021 against Brisbane.

So I'm still not that convinced by this team but I'm inclined to agree with Donza that this very early stage of the season is a lot of funny buggers that might not mean much come later in the year (except for ladder positions - unfortunately they always matter.)

 

[giantsully]

Cox also needs to figure out what he's doing with Jordon. There's a very good mid in him if required, feel like he's being hung out to dry at the minute. It's been ok when full strength, but now he needs to do something about him.

The JJ situation is odd isn't it? Not quite sure where he sits but it's clear Rowbottam is the preferred run with chap for midfielders at least. Fair enough, but then why not as you say give him more midfield responsibility?

 

[DASwan]

Can see why we are all out attack our one on one defence is terrible and only in the game because of poor conversion by the Hawks - easy to see why we tried to recruit Barrass a couple of years ago - couple of all Australians defenders against Curnow compared to v MCartin and Melican who are always looking around for help - and can’t rely on Rampe anymore sooner we get Serong full time into defence the better