List Mgmt. 2026 List management - pt.1

[g_TRAIN]

How is it an over reaction when you look at how many experienced ruckman have struggled with rule changes and how other taller high leaping ruckman improved. Everyone at our club was bemoaning the inclusion of TDK because of exactly that his leap and deft taps.

I am not writing him off, Im just saying he doesnt have the leap/reach of the current trend of ruckman. Everyone can improve over time but very few players can improve their leap and make up the metre he was losing in taps to Moyle. There is no doubt his around the ground game will make him a valuable player, but I think we need to be prepared for he not becoming a dominant tap ruckman at centre ball ups.

Didn't he test really high for running vertical jump in the draft combine? (Which is not based on height and he's 203cm)

So by the same token I doubt he's lost his leaping ability maybe just restricted currently.

I re-watched the VFL game and agree he wasn't getting as high as I've seen previously.

Edit: It could also be a technique thing. It's one thing to be able to jump but another to time it for a center ball up with another ruck competing against you.

 

[saintbill]

The 2024 superdraft is starting to worry me a tad. So many good players, we had a truckload of picks.

Trav over Reid and Barratt over Whitlock, look like real howlers at this stage.

Dodson and Boxshall good bargain picks put I can see why they were late picks. Box's disposal is shocking and Dodson is lacking athleticism.

Tauru the only one I am confident in.

Of course it is only year 2, I get all that, but early signs don't look all that good. This is going to go down as one of the deepest drafts ever, we had 5 picks in the top 45 or so.

Need a good return on the 24 crop if we are any hope of being a contender in coming years.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Didn't he test really high for running vertical jump in the draft combine? (Which is not based on height and he's 203cm)

So by the same token I doubt he's lost his leaping ability maybe just restricted currently.

I think it was the stationary leap he excelled as a result of his basketballing background. It doesnt take away from how important winning the tap is to centre clearances and the current games results. Im sure he will improve whether its enough to compete with the 210cm or huge leaping ruckman time will tell. Either way he will become a very good player for us.

 

[Sir Owens]

How is it an over reaction when you look at how many experienced ruckman have struggled with rule changes and how other taller high leaping ruckman improved. Everyone at our club was bemoaning the inclusion of TDK because of exactly that his leap and deft taps.

I am not writing him off, Im just saying he doesnt have the leap/reach of the current trend of ruckman. Everyone can improve over time but very few players can improve their leap and make up the metre he was losing in taps to Moyle. There is no doubt his around the ground game will make him a valuable player, but I think we need to be prepared for he not becoming a dominant tap ruckman at centre ball ups.

From what I saw of King Dod I was a bit shocked to be fair. He looked very slow and unathletic.

Still plenty of time and he’s only.young. Rucks can taken 3-5 years before they are ready.

He did have an injury over the preseason as well which would have set him back.

 

[g_TRAIN]

The 2024 superdraft is starting to worry me a tad. So many good players, we have a truckload of picks.

Trav over Reid and Barratt over Whitlock, look like real howlers at this stage.

Dodson and Boxshall good bargain picks put I can see why they were late picks. Box's disposal is shocking and Dodson is lacking athleticism.

Tauru the only one I am confident in.

Of course it is only year 2, I get all that, but early signs don't look all that good. This is going to go down as one of the deepest drafts ever, we had 5 picks in the top 45 or so.

Need a good return on the 24 crop if we are any hope of being a contender in coming years.

You're overstating the situation a lot.

Picks in the 30s are pretty hit-and-miss, to be honest. It’s hard to call it a howler when there was never any real certainty either way. And Whitlock is far from a sure thing.

On Trav vs Reid, Reid simply wasn’t in that conversation at the time. He’s proved a lot of people wrong, but clubs clearly weren’t looking at him as a top-10 type. He went nine picks after Trav.

A “howler” is meant to be an obvious and embarrassing mistake. This only looks obvious now with hindsight, and it’s not exactly embarrassing when eight or nine other clubs also had the chance to take him after us and didn’t.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Clark and Coffield - both early picks by the club have not been great selections really. Not for lack of talent or ability, they are constantly injured. Obviously both have been either unlucky or do not have the body for AFL football. Now I know the club does not have a crystal ball but both not great selections.

I watched a bit of Coffield last night, maybe injuries have really rattled or hampered him, but he wasn't great last night. Freo forwards beat him in pretty much every 1 on 1 and that was with the umpires handing the Dogs free kicks like they get commission off them.

Just to play a bit of drafting "what if"... Clark and Coffield 7 & 8, we could have picked any of Aaron Naughton, Zac Bailey, Ed Richards, Brandon Starcevich, Will Powell, Oscar Allen, Tim Kelly, TDK (!), Sam Taylor, Tom McCartin. Some of the decisions and management of this club in the 2010's era is not great.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

The 2024 superdraft is starting to worry me a tad. So many good players, we have a truckload of picks.

Trav over Reid and Barratt over Whitlock, look like real howlers at this stage.

Dodson and Boxshall good bargain picks put I can see why they were late picks. Box's disposal is shocking and Dodson is lacking athleticism.

Tauru the only one I am confident in.

Of course it is only year 2, I get all that, but early signs don't look all that good. This is going to go down as one of the deepest drafts ever, we had 5 picks in the top 45 or so.

Need a good return on the 24 crop if we are any hope of being a contender in coming years.

I dont know what to make of Barrat, his lack of energy/excitement and game involvement worries me. He is slowly improving but whether he can make up the void required to become a decent AFL key defender Im skeptical. To me it looks like he is not enjoying playing in defence and gets burdened with the responsibility.

Ive said it numerous times, but I would love to see the club take the shackles off and throw him forward where he played his entire junior career and excelled. That wont happen this week with King in the side, but Im concerned the club have repressed his development by insisiting he ONLY become a full back. They simply havent given the kid a chance in any other position.

I agree with you regarding Barrat - Whitlock and or Noah Mraz would have been my preferred choice. But I dont think the club have given Barrat the best chance to make it with their positional insistence. He played CHB in the championships so he could move around and had a lot more freedom than being stuck at full back which he has since being at the Saints. He did have some issues with accuracy in front of goals in his u18 year, but surely you would prefer a kid having heaps of shots on goals and you work on their goal kicking than what has occured.

Both Dodson and Boxshall are not perfect thats why they slipped in a very strong draft, but I'm confident both will become highly valuable players and improve their games.

 

[beside the seaside]

I wasnt one of those, blind freddy could see the rule changes would benefit Max heath.

Is Max Heath dominating for Melbourne is he? Just checked his stats, has played two games and taken 1 mark so far. Got a lot of hitouts against Richmond and that's it.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Is Max Heath dominating for Melbourne is he? Just checked his stats, has played two games and taken 1 mark so far. Got a lot of hitouts against Richmond and that's it.

No he was never going to dominate he doesnt have that capacity, but his ruck work has improved immensely.

 

[saintbill]

You're overstating the situation a lot.

Picks in the 30s are pretty hit-and-miss, to be honest. It’s hard to call it a howler when there was never any real certainty either way. And Whitlock is far from a sure thing.

On Trav vs Reid, Reid simply wasn’t in that conversation at the time. He’s proved a lot of people wrong, but clubs clearly weren’t looking at him as a top-10 type. He went nine picks after Trav.

A “howler” is meant to be an obvious and embarrassing mistake. This only looks obvious now with hindsight, and it’s not exactly embarrassing when eight or nine other clubs also had the chance to take him after us and didn’t.

Reid was pretty obvious. Was the most dominant under 18 player in the country for actual output.

Sure Reid wasn't looked over by a few teams after us, but it was an unusual draft in that those teams either picked a home grown talent or had already had earlier picks and taken mids already.

Reid was an absolute sure thing based on output, Trav had a good under 18 season but question marks on disposal.

Whitlock was considered top 20 by most. Barratt was a huge reach.

Talent aside, what made both of these picks obvious was because they both filled the exact need we were after. Skilled mid that can rest forward. Project ruck forward King back up. Whitlock looks being really good.

Instead we went with a half back, "maybe mid" with iffy kicking and another undersized back. Neither fill a need.

I called it on the night and have been consistent since, really odd drafting in my book. Hope to be wrong.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Reid was pretty obvious. Was the most dominant under 18 player in the country for actual output.

Sure Reid wasn't looked over by a few teams after us, but it was an unusual draft in that those teams either picked a home grown talent or had already had earlier picks and taken mids already.

Reid was an absolute sure thing based on output, Trav had a good under 18 season but question marks on disposal.

Whitlock was considered top 20 by most. Barratt was a huge reach.

Talent aside, what made both of these picks obvious was because they both filled the exact need we were after. Skilled mid that can rest forward. Project ruck forward King back up. Whitlock looks being really good.

Instead we went with a half back, "maybe mid" with iffy kicking and another undersized back. Neither fill a need.

I called it on the night and have been consistent since, really odd drafting in my book. Hope to be wrong.

If it was that obvious to recruiters, he would have gone top five. Saying it was obvious doesn’t make it true.

Personally, I wanted Reid too and thought he looked like the clear choice. But, like you, I’m only seeing a small slice of the information clubs use when making draft decisions.

The difference is probably that you’re backing your own read very strongly, whereas I’m more prepared to accept there were factors outside our line of sight and put some merit in the broader consensus among AFL recruiters.

 

[SanDelOeste]

Think quite a few people on here have already said it, but Brad Hill i having a cracker of season isn’t he? Love seeing him playing with so much confidence and freedom. For a player who’s copped plenty of criticism throughout his time here, he absolutely deserves an appreciation post!

 

[The Punter]

I watched a bit of Coffield last night, maybe injuries have really rattled or hampered him, but he wasn't great last night. Freo forwards beat him in pretty much every 1 on 1 and that was with the umpires handing the Dogs free kicks like they get commission off them.

Just to play a bit of drafting "what if"... Clark and Coffield 7 & 8, we could have picked any of Aaron Naughton, Zac Bailey, Ed Richards, Brandon Starcevich, Will Powell, Oscar Allen, Tim Kelly, TDK (!), Sam Taylor, Tom McCartin. Some of the decisions and management of this club in the 2010's era is not great.

Which one of them would have had their jaw broken by David Mackay for putting their head over the ball?

Clark was durable before that happened.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

If it was that obvious to recruiters, he would have gone top five. Saying it was obvious doesn’t make it true.

Personally, I wanted Reid too and thought he looked like the clear choice. But, like you, I’m only seeing a small slice of the information clubs use when making draft decisions.

The difference is probably that you’re backing your own read very strongly, whereas I’m more prepared to accept there were factors outside our line of sight and put some merit in the broader consensus among AFL recruiters.

Reid sliding was purely because recruiters considered him to be small and slow. His smarts and skills completely make up for any lack of size/athletic advantages because he reads the game so well and is a great ball user. I also think his running capacity is okay, it just wasn't a standout strength.

We went for the opposite player. Taller, faster, better runner but lacking skills and footy smarts.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Which one of them would have had their jaw broken by David Mackay for putting their head over the ball?

Clark was durable before that happened.

How many excuses can you make for Clark. Plenty of players have had their jaws broken and it has no affect on their progression as players. Hunter was and always has been slow and injury prone and if the club hasnt worked out by now that he is not prepared to do the work to build an AFL ready phsyique. I dont know where they go!

 

[g_TRAIN]

Reid sliding was purely because recruiters considered him to be small and slow. His smarts and skills completely make up for any lack of size/athletic advantages because he reads the game so well and is a great ball user. I also think his running capacity is okay, it just wasn't a standout strength.

We went for the opposite player. Taller, faster, better runner but lacking skills and footy smarts.

You're right, but at the time recruiters obviously didn't rate his smarts and skills enough.

An obvious example where everyone got it wrong.

 

[The Punter]

How many excuses can you make for Clark. Plenty of players have had their jaws broken and it has no affect on their progressing as players. Hunter was and always has been slow and injury prone and if the club hasnt worked out by now that he is not prepared to do the work to build an AFL ready phsyique. I dont know where they go!

Pretty sure Matty Lappin didn't do that work either.

The excuse is: a major physical trauma changed him. Would have been nice to see Mackay held accountable for that, either by the tribunal or Clark's teammates. Mackay got what he wanted from his delberate act: Crows were five goals down at that stage and went on to win that match.

I reckon Hugo Garcia would hold someone accountable if it happened to another St Kilda player now.

We have to deal with the Hunter Clark we have now either way, but he barely missed a game before the broken jaw. These are the facts, and they are undisputed.

 

[Nutsngum]

How many excuses can you make for Clark. Plenty of players have had their jaws broken and it has no affect on their progressing as players. Hunter was and always has been slow and injury prone and if the club hasnt worked out by now that he is not prepared to do the work to build an AFL ready phsyique. I dont know where they go!

Except he's right. He hadn't missed a game in two years before that incident. You're also ignoring that the vast majority of broken jaws sustained during play are minor and a few weeks off, not a reconstruction and multiple months.

 

[The Boar]

What would Geelong have to cough up for this version of Marshall?
1st Round + Change at this rate.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Except he's right. He hadn't missed a game in two years before that incident. You're also ignoring that the vast majority of broken jaws sustained during play are minor and a few weeks off, not a reconstruction and multiple months.

The broken jaw/face have ZERO to do with Hunter's distinct inability to do the work and build resilience into his physique.

O'Connell had his face smashed in this year and it seems to have recovered ok. I had my jaw broken in two places, had two plates put in and was back playing in 6 weeks.

Its always been about Hunter's off field work rate, he has never done the work to improve. Its like anything in life you get back the effort you are prepared to put in.

 

[Ads734]

The broken jaw/face have ZERO to do with Hunter's distinct inability to do the work and build resilience into his physique.

O'Connell had his face smashed in this year and it seems to have recovered ok. I had my jaw broken in two places, had two plates put in and was back playing in 6 weeks.

Its always been about Hunter's off field work rate, he has never done the work to improve. Its like anything in life you get back the effort you are prepared to put in.

I would love to know where you get this idea that ‘Hunter has never done the work to improve’ it’s such utter trash.

 

[jwikked]

Its always been about Hunter's off field work rate, he has never done the work to improve. Its like anything in life you get back the effort you are prepared to put in.

You gotta go back to 2021 to find a game he played more than 85% of gametime. 2021 and 2020, which might be inflated due to shorter quarters.

Played 90% 3 times, once each in 2018,2019 and 2020.

 

[CaptainRisky]

I would love to know where you get this idea that ‘Hunter has never done the work to improve’ it’s such utter trash.

Well since you want to defend Hunters " Extra Work " What can you tell us to back up the utter trash that he hasn't ?

What i can say is that in his 8 years at the club there has never been a photo of doing extra running , gym work ect as there is allways lots of photos during the off - pre season and never one has been seen of Hunter

Maybe he does his extra work in private but i very much doubt it as he doesnt look a lot different now to what he did back all those years ago

 

[Nutsngum]

The broken jaw/face have ZERO to do with Hunter's distinct inability to do the work and build resilience into his physique.

O'Connell had his face smashed in this year and it seems to have recovered ok. I had my jaw broken in two places, had two plates put in and was back playing in 6 weeks.

Its always been about Hunter's off field work rate, he has never done the work to improve. Its like anything in life you get back the effort you are prepared to put in.

A number of coaches of the club would disagree with you on that on account of continuing to play him.

 

[Ads734]

Well since you want to defend Hunters " Extra Work " What can you tell us to back up the utter trash that he hasn't ?

What i can say is that in his 8 years at the club there has never been a photo of doing extra running , gym work ect as there is allways lots of photos during the off - pre season and never one has been seen of Hunter

Maybe he does his extra work in private but i very much doubt it as he doesnt look a lot different now to what he did back all those years ago

What crap.

You guys accuse him of not doing what it takes to improve his body. Why is it up to me to show he hasn’t as opposed to to giving him as a professional athlete. I’d suggest if he wasn’t doing what was required he would have been delisted or let go.

He has lasted 3 coaches including Ross. Can’t imagine if he wasn’t what was required he’d be playing.