Society/Culture Victoria Cross winner Ben Roberts-Smith - Allegations of war crimes - Now arrested.

[Drought Break]

The Brereton report will be inadmissible in the BRS trial. It's essentially useless inquiry.

That report contributed to many veteran suicides. Only low ranking soldiers from patrol commanders down investigated. Interrogate our soldiers, show them pictures on insurgents they shot. What happened here, who were you with, why did you shoot this guy? also if these images of an insurgent you killed and we know you have been trying hard to move on after these years have caused distress here’s lifelines phone number.

 

[Gethelred]

That report contributed to many veteran suicides. Only low ranking soldiers from patrol commanders down investigated. Interrogate our soldiers, show them pictures on insurgents they shot. What happened here, who were you with, why did you shoot this guy? also if these images of an insurgent you killed and we know you have been trying hard to move on after these years have caused distress here’s lifelines phone number.

Not that I don't believe you, but can you source the claims made in this post?

• The Brereton Report resulted in veteran suicides.
• The process by which the Brereton Report collected information was carelessly damaging to veterans and provided next to no debriefing.

I'd be inclined to agree that these things probably occurred, but it behooves us to challenge what we hear especially when it adheres to our preconceptions.

 

[Drought Break]

Not that I don't believe you, but can you source the claims made in this post?

• The Brereton Report resulted in veteran suicides.
• The process by which the Brereton Report collected information was carelessly damaging to veterans and provided next to no debriefing.

I'd be inclined to agree that these things probably occurred, but it behooves us to challenge what we hear especially when it adheres to our preconceptions.

'We don't know why and we don't know what to do about it': Concerns over increase in veteran suicides

At least 500 veterans have taken their own lives since the Afghanistan War began, but the last few weeks have rocked the veteran community.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Travis Shanks]

'We don't know why and we don't know what to do about it': Concerns over increase in veteran suicides

At least 500 veterans have taken their own lives since the Afghanistan War began, but the last few weeks have rocked the veteran community.

www.abc.net.au

This doesn't point to the Brereton Report as a factor in veteran suicides.

Given that the article is about the 500+ Afghan war veteran suicides recorded before the release of the Brereton Report, the attention really needs to be focused on other aspects of war experience and return.

 

[Gethelred]

'We don't know why and we don't know what to do about it': Concerns over increase in veteran suicides

At least 500 veterans have taken their own lives since the Afghanistan War began, but the last few weeks have rocked the veteran community.

www.abc.net.au

From that article, this is the entire section on the Brereton Report:

War crime allegations an added stressor​

This year has thrown up two significant challenges to the wellbeing of the veteran community.

The first is a blowout in processing times for Department of Veterans Affairs (DVA) claims because of COVID-19.

The second is the impact of the Brereton report into alleged war crimes committed by troops in Afghanistan.

Chris Mills helps run Townsville's Veterans Support Centre, a small group with about 75 serving and ex-serving members on the books.

Veterans' advocate Chris Mills says there are 75 clients on the books at Townsville's Veterans Support Centre, but demand is growing.

"We don't know what the effect of the Brereton report is going to have on younger veterans," Mr Mills said.

"Honestly, we're scared.

"Every organisation I know is ramped up with the consciousness that this could tip some Afghanistan veterans over the edge.

"What we really get pissed off with is the removal of citations and things like that for people who are already dead."

There have been at least 500 veteran suicides in Australia since the start of the Afghanistan war — a number that dwarfs the number of lives lost on the battlefield, at 41.

Lieutenant General John Caligari (retired) heads up a veterans' community hub called The Oasis in Townsville, the city where he also once served as commander of the 3rd Combat Brigade.

The Oasis is designed to act as a starting point for veterans to connect with the specific services they need, which often include medical and mental health treatment, financial, housing and employment services.

General Caligari agrees the Brereton report is affecting how veterans' groups are operating.

"They're all concerned and they're all taking much more of an interest in their people, it's stepped up," he said.

"There's a lot more chatter going on.

"There's annoyance at the way the whole thing's been handled, in particular the fact that the Brereton report made a point of exonerating senior leaders and the issue over the honours and awards."

But General Caligari said it was difficult to say what's caused the spike in suicides in recent weeks.

"To be honest, I don't know," he said.

"It makes [veterans] very worried about their mates, it makes them realise they do need to check on each other.

"I know of the personal circumstances of three of these [recent suicides] and I know they had very complex personal circumstances which are not [directly] attributed to their military service.

"I've seen people who I would've said are the toughest people on earth and I've seen them, within a month, go downhill."

A popular social media group run for and by veterans and serving ADF members, The Pineapple Express, has been cataloguing the suicide deaths in recent weeks and sharing tribute posts with the permission of affected families.

The group is pressing its members to keep in contact with friends who may have become socially distant.

"It’s great to see that the community is clearly becoming more aware and passionate about [mental health and suicide]; it demonstrates the start of a cultural overhaul," the group posted.

"Whether you are serving or ex-serving, know that we are a community that helps each other out."

But veterans' groups are concerned that they are filling that void while the Department of Defence should be taking more action to stem suicides in the ranks.

From the section on the Department of Veteran's Affairs (DVA):

There has been a direct link drawn between DVA delays and veteran suicides.

Earlier this year, a Victorian coroner recommended DVA be audited over its handling of compensation claims, after former Townsville soldier and Afghanistan veteran Jesse Bird died by suicide just weeks after his impairment claim was rejected.

Now, this doesn't make your posting misinformative alone. You're welcome to continue posting along these lines in here; it's pretty shameful how vets are treated. Just be aware that the article does not support the two claims you made, that vets are committing suicide as a result of the Brereton Report, or that it lists the details of the care or debrief you placed above.

 

[Drought Break]

From that article, this is the entire section on the Brereton Report:

From the section on the Department of Veteran's Affairs (DVA):

Now, this doesn't make your posting misinformative alone. You're welcome to continue posting along these lines in here; it's pretty shameful how vets are treated. Just be aware that the article does not support the two claims you made, that vets are committing suicide as a result of the Brereton Report, or that it lists the details of the care or debrief you placed above.

I dont post misinformation. I have more insight into the military than a lot of posters on here. It would be very naive to not link being treated like a war criminal, having your house raided in front of your family and having to relive something you are trying to move on from with PTSD would not have a damaging effect on your mental health. The same thing happened with our returning Vietnam vets and how they were treated on their return.

I know some might not like to listen to the messages from people deployed there and have had to experience this but it would be wise to not dismiss what they have said.



Veterans warn the Defence Force is facing a “mental health crisis”, with an alarming number of suicides involving past and present members in recent months.

7NEWS has obtained new figures revealing at least 67 suspected suicides in the past 12 months, including 25 since the release of the inquiry into alleged war crimes in Afghanistan in November.

It’s understood seven individuals have taken their own life so far this year.

 

[Gethelred]

I dont post misinformation. I have more insight into the military than a lot of posters on here. It would be very naive to not link being treated like a war criminal, having your house raided in front of your family and having to relive something you are trying to move on from with PTSD would not have a damaging effect on your mental health. The same thing happened with our returning Vietnam vets and how they were treated on their return.

I know some might not like to listen to the messages from people deployed there and have had to experience this but it would be wise to not dismiss what they have said.

This isn't dismissal, and I directly told you that this wasn't misinformative. Yet.

The article and the link below which you've provided do not support the claims you've made.

Veterans warn the Defence Force is facing a “mental health crisis”, with an alarming number of suicides involving past and present members in recent months.

7NEWS has obtained new figures revealing at least 67 suspected suicides in the past 12 months, including 25 since the release of the inquiry into alleged war crimes in Afghanistan in November.

It’s understood seven individuals have taken their own life so far this year.

That's awful.

 

[Travis Shanks]

I dont post misinformation. I have more insight into the military than a lot of posters on here. It would be very naive to not link being treated like a war criminal, having your house raided in front of your family and having to relive something you are trying to move on from with PTSD would not have a damaging effect on your mental health. The same thing happened with our returning Vietnam vets and how they were treated on their return.

I know some might not like to listen to the messages from people deployed there and have had to experience this but it would be wise to not dismiss what they have said.



Veterans warn the Defence Force is facing a “mental health crisis”, with an alarming number of suicides involving past and present members in recent months.

7NEWS has obtained new figures revealing at least 67 suspected suicides in the past 12 months, including 25 since the release of the inquiry into alleged war crimes in Afghanistan in November.

It’s understood seven individuals have taken their own life so far this year.

The article you posted is not evidence at all for any link between suicides and the Brereton Report.

There's nothing to prevent you from putting forward that evidence now.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I’m an Afghanistan veteran. Ben Roberts-Smith should face the rule of law

If supporters of Ben Roberts-Smith were genuinely interested in the truth, they’d ask the community to remember why these legal processes exist, and why we must let the wheels of justice turn.

www.crikey.com.au

 

[Drought Break]

C

I’m an Afghanistan veteran. Ben Roberts-Smith should face the rule of law

If supporters of Ben Roberts-Smith were genuinely interested in the truth, they’d ask the community to remember why these legal processes exist, and why we must let the wheels of justice turn.

www.crikey.com.au

could you please copy and paste as paywalled.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

C

could you please copy and paste as paywalled.

Sorry, we're not allowed to quote large chunks of text on BF.

 

[schneebly111]

It would be very naive to not link being treated like a war criminal, having your house raided in front of your family and having to relive something you are trying to move on from with PTSD would not have a damaging effect on your mental health.

So we should just ignore evidence of war crimes but it hurts the criminal’s feelings? When police execute a search warrant on a property they usually don’t give a heads up because that means the suspect has an opportunity to destroy evidence, so yes they are usually raided in front of their families. And don’t go on about ‘mental health’, reminds me of this skit:

The same thing happened with our returning Vietnam vets and how they were treated on their return.

Errr, no:

From the Honest History archives: What happened to Australians after the Vietnam War (June 2015)? | HONEST HISTORY

I know some might not like to listen to the messages from people deployed there

You mean all the dozens of witnesses who reported on the war criminals?

and have had to experience this but it would be wise to not dismiss what they have said.

Yes that’s why there are criminal investigations and prosecutions taking place.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The same thing happened with our returning Vietnam vets and how they were treated on their return.

If you're referring to the suggestion that returning soldiers got splashed with blood that has never been found in a single news report from the time, and appears to have emanated from a protestor who drenched herself in red paint.

 

[Travis Shanks]

If you're referring to the suggestion that returning soldiers got splashed with blood that has never been found in a single news report from the time, and appears to have emanated from a protestor who drenched herself in red paint.

The narrative of spurned Vietnam vets won't die easily, but it has always been false and an extrapolation from the American experience.

The Honest History article linked above is a good piece, and this link also talks about the myth of Vietnam vet victimhood and why the narrative took hold.

https://rest.mars-prod.its.unimelb.edu.au/server/api/core/bitstreams/cfa3fd54-b3d9-5319-916c-de41aa168a70/content

There are some excellent sources in the footnotes as well.

One irony is that WWII veterans used to complain that they weren't treated with the same esteem as the First AIF, both within society and in RSL clubs, which tells you something about how high the pedestal of the 'original' Anzacs really is.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

If you're referring to the suggestion that returning soldiers got splashed with blood that has never been found in a single news report from the time, and appears to have emanated from a protestor who drenched herself in red paint.

From the Archives, 1966: Paint protest woman fined

A young woman, who had doused herself in red paint and interrupted a parade by returning troops, explained her actions to a Sydney courtroom.

www.smh.com.au

 

[western royboy]

From The Saturday Paper

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

View attachment 2605788From The Saturday Paper

Anzac needs to get back to what it was for most of its history before it was turbocharged by the RW nationalists.

 

[Travis Shanks]

Anzac needs to get back to what it was for most of its history before it was turbocharged by the RW nationalists.

This country's peculiar fetish for anyone who ever wore a uniform is tiresome, but unfortunately won't be going back into its box anytime soon.

 

[barreness]

Anzac needs to get back to what it was for most of its history before it was turbocharged by the RW nationalists.

Monash seeking forgiveness for throwing so many young men at the guns, undoubtedly a great general though

 

[schneebly111]

View attachment 2605788From The Saturday Paper

The Liberals have drifted so far right that even a solid conservative religious family man ex war veteran who took a principled stance is ostracised by his party because now “war hero” to them means “the one who kills the most non whites as possible”.

In a month he’s gone from a real potential future PM to someone who’ll be on the outer for the rest of his career. Don’t agree much with his politics (he did put out a dog whistling anti non white migrant post last year) but at least he stood up for the truth in his previous role. It has cost him, there’s more chance of BRS becoming Pm now than Hastie.