2003 - A New Hope!

[CJH]

The purpose of this exercise is to illustrate to Patrick Bateman how there is hope for next year and that we won’t be spending another 10 years in the badlands!

Using the Brisbane Lions model of a balanced list and applying it to our own, I can determine our shortcomings and surpluses.

I have broken this into three parts:
1. The entire 2002 senior playing list
2. A group of 30 who would most probably represent the senior pool for the season
3. Some development / Reserve players.

In the entire list, I have included every senior player and ranked them according to where I see them

For the playing group of 30, I have only moved the names forward that I see as being part of the plans for next year. Some of the remaining players can be viewed as development and have been moved to a supplementary list.

This will then highlight what gaps we need to fill!

The players I see as being delisted and/or traded are:

Scott Homewood
Craig Biddiscombe
Greg Tivendale
Andrew Mills
Matthew Rogers
Clinton King
Steven Sziller
Paul Hudson

For next year, we will need to recruit:

 3 Inside players capable of stepping straight up to senior level, whether they be current AFL players (eg. Guerra) or kids via the draft (e.g. Rodan, McGough, Doughty)
 2 development inside players.
 1 Key Forward capable of playing senior football
 1 development key defender (Lucas McGhie via Father/Son rule)
 1 development small forward

This is based upon my belief that the balance of the side is all wrong and that we don’t have enough players able to win the ball in the middle.

Get the balance right - more players winning the ball - and we will have every chance on being successful. 3 more ball winners into this team changes the complexion entirely.

=================
The Brisbane Model
=================
Total Players 22 30 38

Key Defender 2 9.09% 3 4
Small Defender 3 13.64% 4 5
Running Player 3 13.64% 4 5
Inside Player 5 22.73% 7 9
Combination Player 3 13.64% 4 5
Key Forward 3 13.64% 4 5
Small Forward 2 9.09% 3 3
Ruck 1 4.55% 1 2



=================
Current 2002 Senior List
=================

Key Defender 5
1 Darren Gaspar
2 Ben Holland
3 Andrew Kellaway
4 Royce Vardy
5 Scott Homewood
Small Defender 5
1 Jason Torney
2 Mark Chaffey
3 Ty Zantuck
4 Chris Newman
5 Craig Biddiscombe
Running Player 5
1 Joel Bowden
2 Leon Cameron
3 Aaron Fiora
4 Kayne Pettifer
5 Greg Tivendale
6 Chris Hyde
7 Andrew Mills
8
Inside Player 9
1 Duncan Kellaway
2 Mark Coughlan
3 Matthew Knights
4 Craig Ednie
5 Matthew Rogers
6 Clinton King
7 Steven Sziller
8
9
Combination Player 5
1 Campbell
2 Rodan
3 Hilton
4 Dragicevic


Key Forward 5
1 Matthew Richardson
2 Brad Ottens
3
4
5
Small Forward 3
1 Andrew Krakouer
2 Adam Houlihan
3 Ezra Poyas
4 Martin McGrath
5 Paul Hudson
Ruck 2
1 Stafford
2 Hall

=================
2003 Core List
=================

Key Defender 3
1 Darren Gaspar
2 Ben Holland
3 Andrew Kellaway
4
5
Small Defender 4
1 Jason Torney
2 Mark Chaffey
3 Ty Zantuck
4 Chris Newman
5
Running Player 4
1 Joel Bowden
2 Leon Cameron
3 Aaron Fiora
4 Kayne Pettifer
5
6
7
8
Inside Player 7
1 Duncan Kellaway
2 Mark Coughlan
3 Matthew Knights
4 Craig Ednie
5 ?
6 ?
7 ?
8
9
Combination Player 4
1 Campbell
2 Rodan
3 Hilton
4 Dragicevic


Key Forward 4
1 Matthew Richardson
2 Brad Ottens
3 ?
4
5
Small Forward 3
1 Andrew Krakouer
2 Adam Houlihan
3 Ezra Poyas
4
5
Ruck 1
1 Stafford
2 Hall

=================
2003 Development List
=================
Key Defender
1 Royce Vardy
2 ?

Small Defender
1 ?

Running Player
1 Chris Hyde

Inside Player
1 ?
2 ?

Small Forward
1 Martin McGrath

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

can see where ya coming from chris and i agree with trade/delist list.altho as the saying goes you need to trade quality to get quality.of the above trade baits the only one with some value is tivendale.but what would we get for him draft pick wise? a 2nd round pick is my opinion.

if we are fair dinkum about next year we need to "tank"this year and get a priority pick.
2 picks in the 1st 10 is great however 3 would set us up pefectly.

of our list there would be 4 players who would attract a 1st round trade.
richo,gas,otto and bowden.

of the 4 we can easly cover bowden in my opinion.great skilled player he is he is just not seen when the side needs him.

take our medicine and get 3 picks in the 1st 10.
get 2 inside midfeilders and a ruckman.

cheers!

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Magnificent analysis Chris - You're talents are wasted at a share price dropping institution like the NAB.

I'm quite prepared not to win another game this year and gain 2 priority picks and with McGhie as a 3rd round pick, that would be sensational.

I'm quite sanguine about Pettifer and Fiora taking the required steps next year while Coughlan remains the big hope when he puts more mass on.

I'm a bit concerned about B Holland coming back from a knee - they're never quite the same, are they (read Jackovic) while a lack of depth down back remains a huge concern .. I'm still having nightmares about Vardy who made that imposted Graham look a half-decent forward..

Thanks mate

 

[Dean3]

I agree with trading Hudson, Sziller, Bidders and King, but it begs the question: who will take them? Is Alan Bond on someone's recruitment staff?
Maybe we could offload King, but I think the others are contracted for another year so unless we can persuade them to retire we're likely to be stuck with 'em.
Try as I might, I just can't see Knights playing next year, with huge clouds also over Vardy (delist?) and (gulp) Dragga (trade?). I can't see the point of persevering with Royce - he's not going to get any faster, and I'd probably rather see us hang on to Homewood. Dragga is a complete unknown now and while we're looking for inside midfielders maybe we're better off letting someone else take the risk with him.
Whilst we're having a clean out I think we'd also have to look closely at Leon Cameron. While he's been terrific for us till now he does have a history of leg injuries and it's possible that his will be a very rapid decline. He's showing clear signs that another year at the top level may be beyond him.

With regard to recruiting I think we've been far too concerned with recruiting a 'type' or 'skills' (eg "we need small crumbing forwards, a young ruckman, an inside midfielder") than concentrating on character, intelligence, self-confidence, self-assurance, self-reliance. Essendon and Brisbane have been very good at recognising these qualities in players and recruiting guys with these attributes and then moulding and coaching them into the positions that they require. Give me these qualities first and then make the footballer.

 

[Tigertough]

I generally agree with your analysis.But some points to consider.

Knightter is gone, no doubt!

We must avoid the temptation not to lose too much experience at once. For this reason, I feel we need to retain Cameron.

With players for trade, a single player (eg King) may not attract a first round draft pick but couple them with another player (eg Tivvers) and we can get a first round pick. I would not trade Bowden as I consider him as a player who has unlimited potential and we need tp perservere with him.

My final point is that we must be tough in our trades and hang out for nothing less than first round picks or ideal midfielders (ie skill, strength and pace). Nothing less shold be our attitude.

 

[Rodan#18.]

Great stuff Tiger fans.



great stuff Tiger fans !!

 

[TheFoxhat]

May be you should be on the recruiting panel chris
hopefully we can get back to where we belong at the top

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Great analysis CJ .... just a few of my own observations to add.

* There's no doubt blokes like Bidders, Hudson etc... are obsolete. Unfortunately they are under contract, so it is too simplistic to just say "delist" these players. You cannot delist contracted players. You can TRADE, or you can try to convince them to abandon their own contracts, but you cannot simply just delist them.

* ToO ... as much as he frustrates us at times, Joel Bowden is just a whisker and a bit of assistance away from becoming one of THE dominant players in the league. He should not even be considered for trade. And won't be.

* If you were at an opposition club looking in, a player like Ezra Poyas might stand out as a likely prospect. You know the type, young and full of potential, had three unfulfilling years, too good for VFL, and seemingly out of favor. Let's make use of this in trading.

* One thing we have become scared of when trading is the effect of THAT player tearing us apart when with a new opposition club. That's something that Premier League, Series A etc ...teams don't usually have to consider, as they generally trade players to different Leagues. I think we have to overcome this mindset of worrying about OUR ex-players doing us over ... When was the last time an ex-Richmond player REALLY carved up the Tigers ? It's been a while ...

* Three picks in the Top 10 IS a priority ... there would be far worse things to happen to us than not winning 6 games this year !!!

 

[sandeano]

Finishing 10th or 14th is only academic in terms of pride this year, either way we were monties to make the finals.

Let's look not to next year, but to the next deacde and recruit accordingly.

And please, lets stagger our massive 3 year contracts to allow at least a bit of breating room under a heaving salary cap.

 

[WhiteLineFever]

* If you were at an opposition club looking in, a player like Ezra Poyas might stand out as a likely prospect. You know the type, young and full of potential, had three unfulfilling years, too good for VFL, and seemingly out of favor. Let's make use of this in trading.

If someone like Poyas is traded to another club and he then goes on to make Richmond rue this decision, the coaching panel should be strung to high heaven for allowing this happening. Fair enough if the player has had a decent run to see if they can cut the grade.

In Poyas case, I don't believe this has happened. His been in and out of the 1's and when he has been in the team, played on and off the bench. Poyas was best on ground against Freo, quiet against the Hawks, and then sent to purgatory never to be heard of again.

No, if Poyas makes it big at another club without a decent run, somebodies head should roll. Not sure he will make it, but let's find out rather than die wondering.

Incidently, I would try him in the midfield as he looks like a bit of a grunt to me, ie task him to get the ball rather than rely on his team mates to deliver it to him in the forward line.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

ghost i hear what ya sayin mate about bowden.no doubt he has the class to become a dominate player in the afl but like i said in my post we need to get 3 top 10 picks in the draft and while i hate to say this i hope we dont win another game for the year to get 2 at least.
our seasons over the anger inside me the dissapointment will not change if we dont win another game.the fact remains where we finish on the ladder has become secondry to what we havnt achieved this year.
to get that 3rd pick we need to trade quality and i cant see us trading the likes of gasper,richo or otto.like i said bowden is a class player but he can be easly covered compared to the others.

perfect example north traded scwass for grant. who in their right minds back then thought that north would do that? a win win for both clubs.

if their is another way of getting a 3rd pick without offloading a bowden then im all for it.

whiteline while granted poyas has the abilty i doubt very much he would succeed as a midfeilder. to slow for starters.
and this is his main problem to slow for the midfeild and too short for a key position he is in the middle of no mansland.
fwd pocket is his one and only possie.

cheers!

 

[CJH]

Originally posted by GhostofJimJess
Great analysis CJ .... just a few of my own observations to add.

* There's no doubt blokes like Bidders, Hudson etc... are obsolete. Unfortunately they are under contract, so it is too simplistic to just say "delist" these players. You cannot delist contracted players. You can TRADE, or you can try to convince them to abandon their own contracts, but you cannot simply just delist them.


What kind of contracts are these blokes on? Biddiscombe is either out of contract this year or has 1 year to run.

Surely we didn't give Hudson a long contract? Please tell me we didn't!!!!

The money we are paying them isn't the issue - just the effect it has on the salary cap. Maybe they can be convinced to take odd jobs around the club on the same money they would otherwise be paid as players - Hudson can become the goal kicking coach while Biddiscombe can be a runner.



* ToO ... as much as he frustrates us at times, Joel Bowden is just a whisker and a bit of assistance away from becoming one of THE dominant players in the league. He should not even be considered for trade. And won't be.


I almost agree on Bowden! They only way I would consider trading him was if a Trent Croad like situation arose - at this stage it doesn't look like the same quality is there in the draft so that may have to be put on the backburner for a little bit.

* If you were at an opposition club looking in, a player like Ezra Poyas might stand out as a likely prospect. You know the type, young and full of potential, had three unfulfilling years, too good for VFL, and seemingly out of favor. Let's make use of this in trading.

He played games against Melbourne and Fremantle, kicked 3 and 2 goals and had nearly 20 touches in both games drifting between the forward line and the midfield (and the bench ) and then got dropped after a quiet one against Hawthorn.

After seeing the first 2 games (Melb and Freo) I thought to myself that he now looks like he belongs at this level. This is why I am so bemused not too see him get a chance at the moment. We could be doing a lot worse!



* One thing we have become scared of when trading is the effect of THAT player tearing us apart when with a new opposition club. That's something that Premier League, Series A etc ...teams don't usually have to consider, as they generally trade players to different Leagues. I think we have to overcome this mindset of worrying about OUR ex-players doing us over ... When was the last time an ex-Richmond player REALLY carved up the Tigers ? It's been a while ...

Who are the players that we've let go and have really hurt - Stuart Maxfield and Justin Murphy are the only two that I can think of from the last decade. Maybe Craig Lambert and Matthew Clarke but that is stretching it?

Steve McKee has done a bit this year but he is being carried to a degree by playing in a stronger team. Let Collingwood have a few injuries in the midfield (please ) and then see how good he is!

Still, I feel Aaron Fiora is going to be a better long term option and he was the objective of the McKee trade, not Clinton King.


* Three picks in the Top 10 IS a priority ... there would be far worse things to happen to us than not winning 6 games this year !!!

 

[GhostofJimJess]

CJ unfortunately, and as silly as it sounds, we have Huddo and Bidders contracted for 2003. Someone posted the complete list on RoarPower about a month ago, but I can't for the life of me track it down. But one thing I do recall ... It didn't make for pretty reading.

Also ToO ... Schwassy was 28 when he went to Sydney, and had a premiership under his belt. He was also not in the Roos best 10 players at the time. That's quite a different story to Bowden.