2003 Team Poster

[mel 40]

Originally posted by Chicago1
Because of Murphy's action and the failure of the Western Bulldogs Football Club administration to keep politics out of footy by refusing to airbrush the political message from the official team photo, there will be one less Western Bulldog member and one less Pet member this year.

What so you dont agree with murph, so your not going to buy a membership.Wow that another excuse ive heard for not buying a membership, and there getting worse as i keep hearing them.
Just think chicago it could be your memberships that saves our club, and if you dont get one it may be those 2 memberships that kills this club.

 

[sigscotty]

Originally posted by dancingdoggie17
How do you know that?

So many people don't want a war...he's just another one and i don't think it's THAT serious.

If he understtod what he was doing than he is a geniunely stupid person. i think he was just naive.

So many people do want a war too gem, does that mean it would be ok if another player put a pro war message in the photo? He is not just another person against war, he is a proffesional at a club that i pay to be a member of and the official club photo carrying a political message can easily be taken as implicit support for that message for everyone associated with the club. Just keep the politics out, if he wants to protest as a citizen against war so be it, but no way is it acceptable for him to use OUR club as a means to push his political agenda.

Whether or not it is reason to not get a membership is another matter, and a very personal one.

 

[eagle_10]

Originally posted by mel 40
What so you dont agree with murph, so your not going to buy a membership.Wow that another excuse ive heard for not buying a membership, and there getting worse as i keep hearing them.
Just think chicago it could be your memberships that saves our club, and if you dont get one it may be those 2 memberships that kills this club.

i agree with mel40 that 1 membership could be the membership that kills the club over that stupid matter thats his opinion so let it be murps a star anyway

 

[Chicago1]

Originally posted by dancingdoggie17
How do you know that?

Also, Chicago, i personally don't think it's a very good reason not to renew your membership becuase you differ with a player's opinions. There was a HUGE chance that alot of the bulldogs players don't want war and because one of them showed it you get offended?

Seriously, even if Murp had "KKK rules" on his arm i would still buy a membership.

So many people don't want a war...he's just another one and i don't think it's THAT serious.

I'm not refusing to buy a membership because I disagree with Murphy's opinion. I'm not renewing my membership because he chose to express his opinion in an inappropriate forum, in my opinion, and the club has taken a de facto stance on the issue by allowing him to express his opinion in such a manner and have that political opinion on permanent display on the team poster. The club had a choice in the matter. They chose to get invoved by NOT getting involved. That is the message that MY protest will be to the club. Politics do NOT belong in footy! Murphy's choice of expressing his opinion in such a forum would be similar to me wearing a "Vote Liberal" badge on the day of my school's staff photo. I doubt very much that I would be allowed to do so by the school administration since it would be considered unprofessional and inappropriate. The club didn't demand a similar action from him which is fair enough, it was their decision. However, they DID choose to allow the message to be permanently displayed on the team photo. That is what I object to.

Murphy chose to use OUR club as a forum for his political agenda. I just want to remind him and the club that there are consequences to such actions. Money talks at a "cash strapped club", even though my A$200 is a miniscule amount when talking about being in debt for millions.

 

[Chicago1]

Originally posted by sigscotty
If he understtod what he was doing than he is a geniunely stupid person. i think he was just naive.

So many people do want a war too gem, does that mean it would be ok if another player put a pro war message in the photo? He is not just another person against war, he is a proffesional at a club that i pay to be a member of and the official club photo carrying a political message can easily be taken as implicit support for that message for everyone associated with the club. Just keep the politics out, if he wants to protest as a citizen against war so be it, but no way is it acceptable for him to use OUR club as a means to push his political agenda.

Whether or not it is reason to not get a membership is another matter, and a very personal one.

Exactly. I'm just surprised that a "professional" club would allow itself to be used in such a manner. Maybe they aren't professional enough to have thought through the matter completely. Of course, I could be cynical and believe that their inaction is an opinion on the matter. But how do I know? The club has sent a mixed message to the public regarding the matter. My e-mails to the club have not been returned. Are they trying to send ME a message by that inaction or is it just a matter of not caring enough to respond? Guess I'll never know.

 

[chinadog]

Chicago, you can choose not to buy a membership but I ask if your pet feels the same way?

However for my 2 bobs worth I would not boycott a membership for anything anyone had written on their arms. Pro-war, no-war,KKK whatever.
I'd be more likely to boycott if the club, as a deliberate decision, decide to censor that message with an air brush. That would really being the "club" getting involved and interferring with an individuals right to free speech.
If I want to wear a pro-war/anti war badge, cap, tattoo; I do not think my employeer has a right to censor that message.
If the general public mis-interprets the message as coming from the club/ employeer then that is their problem and this mis-interpretation should not impact on my or anyone elses right to express their opinion in any forum.

Anyway I am sorry to hear Chicago that you have been so offended by what has happened here and hope you will reconsider.

As someone famous somewhere once said, "I may not agree with you but I will fight for your right to say it.".

Again I beg you to reconsider. It wont be the same without ya.

 

[Knackers]

Quote By Chicago

Because of Murphy's action and the failure of the Western Bulldogs Football Club administration to keep politics out of footy by refusing to airbrush the political message from the official team photo, there will be one less Western Bulldog member and one less Pet member this year.

If what you say is true and you have been a member for 25 years, but now you're not renewing because of the footy club's "non-action" over Murphy's protest, then you are truly shallow.

Your real problem is you don't like any form of protest against the US. The club did the right thing and let it go, airbrushing the team photo would only be the reverse of your problem since it was well publicised in the Melbourne media.

You say that the club should take a non-political stance yet you politicise it by not renewing and sending a protest letter to the club.

Hypocrit.

 

[Isdogisgood]

Knackers, that is what i was going to say. Chicago, if you are against politics in sport, why are you choosing not to be a member because of it. You are only hurting the club and its supporters ie us, and i don't believe it is fair to blame them. You can't expect the club to take action as they will be criticised for taking away player's rights to free speech. Its a no win situation. Maybe Murphy was wrong to do what he did, but what you are doing is also wrong. I am sorry, and i know it is a very sensitive issue. Maybe there is a better way to get across your concerns like writing a letter to Murphy himself, as i believe he alone should be resposible for his actions.

 

[Mr. Walker]

Chicago,

I hope you reconsider and buy a membership. We need you and the club needs you. I think I understand where you are coming from and I guess the Americans get sick of the kicks that come their way pretty regularly. Saddam supports terrorists that attack (mainly) americans, kills and tortures thousands of his own people and the Kurds and no-one writes "save the kurds" on their arms or says a word. But as soon as the Yanks get involved everyone seems to line up for a free hit. No-one wants the terrorists to have their way and we like the freedom and all, its just that some people seem to think that only american lives should be put at risk in its defence.

I have seen nothing that indicates that Robert Murphy thinks this way. I believe he is in the "war is the very last option' group that most of us are in and was just pushing for the UN and USA to exhaust all other options first. If the UN had stood up to Saddam with a fixed timeline and not acquiesed (?) on every occaision then this thing may have been solved peacefully by now. I see Murphy's stance as pro-peace and not as anti-america.

The club not taking any action was also not anti-american, they were probably just trying to take the line of least offence. I hope you join up, now more than ever we need your support even at this time where things bigger than football intrude.

 

[Chicago1]

Originally posted by Knackers
Quote By Chicago


If what you say is true and you have been a member for 25 years, but now you're not renewing because of the footy club's "non-action" over Murphy's protest, then you are truly shallow.

Your real problem is you don't like any form of protest against the US. The club did the right thing and let it go, airbrushing the team photo would only be the reverse of your problem since it was well publicised in the Melbourne media.

You say that the club should take a non-political stance yet you politicise it by not renewing and sending a protest letter to the club.

Hypocrit.

So I suppose you have a degree in psychology into human behaviour? How judgemental you are of me. You don't even know me. I guess it's OK for a 20 year old with a "wealth of life experience" to express his view, but I don't have the same right? MY choice was for the club NOT to acknowledge anything political regarding the matter in the first place, but they have opened the gates on the topic. And yes, the club HAS taken a stand on the issue. They allowed a political opinion to be published on an official Western Bulldogs Football Club (trading as the Footscray Football Club), AFL approved piece of merchandise. I'm just trying to point out to the administration in the manner I have chosen since my e-mail sent over three weeks ago (before the team poster was published) was not answered, nor were my two e-mails of last week. All I'm making sure is that they know that not everyone has agreed with their decision.

See, my point of view has already created controversy on this board! Maybe if it is publicised in a wider forum the club might realise that "letting it go" might not have been the wise choice after all.

And, please, if you're going to try to insult me by calling me a hypocrit(sic), it best be remembered that spelling is important!

 

[Chicago1]

Originally posted by Isdogisgood
Knackers, that is what i was going to say. Chicago, if you are against politics in sport, why are you choosing not to be a member because of it. You are only hurting the club and its supporters ie us, and i don't believe it is fair to blame them. You can't expect the club to take action as they will be criticised for taking away player's rights to free speech. Its a no win situation. Maybe Murphy was wrong to do what he did, but what you are doing is also wrong. I am sorry, and i know it is a very sensitive issue. Maybe there is a better way to get across your concerns like writing a letter to Murphy himself, as i believe he alone should be resposible for his actions.

The club made its decision and so have I. The club chose to allow a political opinion to be published on an official Western Bulldogs Football Club (trading as the Footscray Football Club), AFL approved piece of merchandise (as I've explained in another post). MY choice was that nothing political should be expressed by the club on this issue either by action or inaction in any way. The difference between what Murphy did and what I'm doing is that MY protest hasn't received (as of yet, if at all) media publicity.

I certainly wouldn't mind writing a letter(an e-mail would be better) to Murphy, though I doubt I'd get a reply just as I've not received a reply to the three e-mails I've sent the club. I wasn't going to make a big deal about this, but the "difficulty" with the club's finances and its "begging" for members to join or rejoin got me thinking about why members haven't rejoined. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned anything at all in this thread. Only one BF member knew anything about this last week and another earlier this week.

 

[Chicago1]

Originally posted by Mr. Walker
Chicago,

I have seen nothing that indicates that Robert Murphy thinks this way. I believe he is in the "war is the very last option' group that most of us are in and was just pushing for the UN and USA to exhaust all other options first. If the UN had stood up to Saddam with a fixed timeline and not acquiesed (?) on every occaision then this thing may have been solved peacefully by now. I see Murphy's stance as pro-peace and not as anti-america.

The club not taking any action was also not anti-american, they were probably just trying to take the line of least offence. I hope you join up, now more than ever we need your support even at this time where things bigger than football intrude.

Mr. W.,

I have never said that I believe that Murphy's stand is "anti-American". In fact, I don't believe it is. Most likely his opinion has been influenced by his parents who are a former Catholic priest and former Catholic nun. (And before anyone jumps on my back about that, I'll just let you know that I too am a member of the "formers", though I had yet to take "perpetual" vows as they both did.)

The club's stance was 'to do nothing' in the hope, most likely, that it would all go away and, indeed, it had up until now. (Maybe that's the reason why my e-mails weren't returned!) It wasn't anti-American, but it was "political". That's what I object to.

Interesting to already see one bigoted anti-American slur posted by a member of this forum, besides the personal slur by the same poster.

Thank you for your opinion, Mr W. At least you expressed what you believe without reverting to insults.

 

[Knackers]

I stand 100% behind what I previously stated.

You criticise me for being judgemental, yet you do exactly the same thing.

I am not in my 20s and I still believe that you are a hypocrit(e).

I am not anti-american and I am pro removing Hussein, however punishing the club for what you perceive to be their political stance or mixing sport with politics is WRONG !!

Come down from your high horse and smell the "proverbial".

 

[sigscotty]

For those arguing the club did the right thing by doing nothing at all...you see its no more illegal in our society to be against aboriginals having equal rights for instance than it is to be against the war.

Obviously the latter is a much more distasteful view, but if you allow one to be stated freely in our official club merchandise you have no right to block the other. The only way you can stop any idiot with a cause using OUR club(as apposed to using their own right to freedom of speech) to further their whacked out causes is by allowing nobody at all to use the club in this way.

My stance against Murhpy's statement is not one against his right to have that opinion, or against his right to express it. It is not a block on freedom of speech, he is welcome to protest his heart out, get on tv and say what he wants about the war, thats his business. However, it is a stand against using OUR SPORTING CLUB as a way of furthering a political agenda, without any of us the members, having a say in whether or not the club we keep alive will be used in this manner. I certainly don't pay my membership money so anybody can use our club as a platform like this.

When 'player redneck' comes out and wants to have 'no vote for aboriginals' written on his arm in next years photo(i am not suggesting any of our players hold that view, and would very much hope and assume they do not), on what grounds other than simply not liking that particular opinion will the club have for not allowing it to be on our official merchandise???

Chicago, i urge you to get your membership. The best way of making your point will be as a member. I am happy to do my part in making sure the club does get to know the concerns we both have. I mean when Howard does something i dislike i don't go to new zealand and ditch my aussie citizenship, i try to use my being a part of the australian community to get my point across...please make this protest against political opinion being represented by way of OUR club as a member of the bulldog community, not as an ex-member.

 

[Chicago1]

Thank you for your post, sig. I will await contact from you regarding the club contacting me if they so desire.

 

[Chops]

I hope you change your mind C1 for the clubs sake.

Personally I believe what Murphy wrote on his arm is just as bad as what you have as an avatar.

 

[sigscotty]

Originally posted by Chops
Personally I believe what Murphy wrote on his arm is just as bad as what you have as an avatar.

the point is chops that Chicago's avatar is not on an official club document.

 

[Chops]

Originally posted by sigscotty
the point is chops that Chicago's avatar is not on an official club document.

Neither is Murphy's arm

 

[sigscotty]

Originally posted by Chops
Neither is Murphy's arm

Ummm...yeah it is. You know, the team poster.

 

[Chops]

Originally posted by sigscotty
Ummm...yeah it is. You know, the team poster.

You said document, Murphy wrote it on his arm not the poster.
What part of his contract says that he can't write things on his arm?
If they air brushed it out, is that better or worse?

 

[sigscotty]

Originally posted by Chops
You said document, Murphy wrote it on his arm not the poster.
What part of his contract says that he can't write things on his arm?
If they air brushed it out, is that better or worse?

A political statement written by Murphy is on the poster. Is that right or wrong chops?

Ofcourse they should have air brushed it out, just as they should if someone else put KKK on their arm.

 

[Chicago1]

Originally posted by Chops


Personally I believe what Murphy wrote on his arm is just as bad as what you have as an avatar.

Chops,

Is my new one better? Just kidding!

Edited to add: Sorry, just couldn't resist! I'll change it once I know you've seen it, Chops.

 

[Derek Zoolander]

Originally posted by sigscotty
For those arguing the club did the right thing by doing nothing at all...you see its no more illegal in our society to be against aboriginals having equal rights for instance than it is to be against the war.

Obviously the latter is a much more distasteful view, but if you allow one to be stated freely in our official club merchandise you have no right to block the other. The only way you can stop any idiot with a cause using OUR club(as apposed to using their own right to freedom of speech) to further their whacked out causes is by allowing nobody at all to use the club in this way.

My stance against Murhpy's statement is not one against his right to have that opinion, or against his right to express it. It is not a block on freedom of speech, he is welcome to protest his heart out, get on tv and say what he wants about the war, thats his business. However, it is a stand against using OUR SPORTING CLUB as a way of furthering a political agenda, without any of us the members, having a say in whether or not the club we keep
alive will be used in this manner. I certainly don't pay my membership money so anybody can use our club as a platform like this.

When 'player redneck' comes out and wants to have 'no vote for aboriginals' written on his arm in next years photo(i am not suggesting any of our players hold that view, and would very much hope and assume they do not), on what grounds other than simply not liking that particular opinion will the club have for not allowing it to be on our official merchandise???

Chicago, i urge you to get your membership. The best way of making your point will be as a member. I am happy to do my part in making sure the club does get to know the concerns we both have. I mean when Howard does something i dislike i don't go to new zealand and ditch my aussie citizenship, i try to use my being a part of the australian community to get my point across...please make this protest against political opinion being represented by way of OUR club as a member of the bulldog community, not as an ex-member.

I full agree and support Sig Scotty's view here and elsewhere on this thread.

Beautifully writen Sig.

Chicago1 - Please reconsider your decision not to part of this club. I implore you.

 

[Chops]

Originally posted by Chicago1
Chops,

Is my new one better? Just kidding!

Edited to add: Sorry, just couldn't resist!

No worries C1.
I have no problem with what you have as an avatar or what Murphy wrote on his arm. Think they are very similar statements/opinions by individuals. Everyone is entitled and Murphys is hardly visible on the team poster.

 

[Westy_Boy]

Originally posted by Chicago1
Because of Murphy's action and the failure of the Western Bulldogs Football Club administration to keep politics out of footy by refusing to airbrush the political message from the official team photo, there will be one less Western Bulldog member and one less Pet member this year.

I wonder if Murphy realised that his actions would cause a member of the footy club for longer than he has been alive to decide NOT to renew his membership after 25 years? I doubt it. "For every action, there is a reaction." He must not have learned that in school.

My "protest" will be explained to the Western Bulldogs Football Club and has already been sent to a source that may wish to publicise just one small consequence of Murphy's actions. So I guess that something more HAS come of it..... though I doubt the club will care.

Have you even seen the normal sized photo? It's so small that it's barely noticeable – hence why it got through. You’re punishing the club because some bloke checking over a photo with dozens of people in it didn’t spot a piece of scribble (which isn’t more than a couple of millimetres in diameter) on one bloke’s forearm.

But the main point here is that Murphy is one player who was acting on his own accord. What he did wasn’t illegal, racist or offensive, nor was it in breach of any codes of conduct - If you disagree with his actions, by all means write to him/ tell him that you think they were inappropriate, just like the club and AFL has done in the past month.

But why you've chosen to punish the club is beyond me – I mean, using your criteria, I could just as easily take this stance: Rohde swore, I hate people who swear - let the club rot in hell when it needs me the most. Or: Chris Grant says "no" in answering a direct question about whether he thinks Saddam is an honourable man - this is political, he was wearing a Bulldog jumper - f**k the club, I'll teach them a lesson.

It is a free country, and given that there’s no industry-wide rules condemning it, he made use an opportunity to express himself. What next, you won’t buy a membership because a player was wearing a necklace with a cross on it? Football and religion don’t mix - quick, run to Herald Sun and tell them your ‘story’!

For everyone who found it inappropriate, there’ll be others who’ll applaud it. For everyone who agrees with him, there’ll be someone who’ll disagree. For every person who thinks it was immature, there’ll be another person who thinks it took great guts and initiative. For anyone who thinks it should have been airbrushed, there’ll be others who’ll believe that’s impairing his freedom of speech. For anyone who thinks politics and sport shouldn’t mix, there’ll be another who thinks it’s better having players thinking/ being passionate about and expressing their beliefs rather than having their world revolve around booze and playstation games. For everyone who thinks your position on it is justified, there'll be others who think it's incredibly thin-skinned.

Originally posted by Chicago1
My "protest" has already been sent to a source that may wish to publicise just one small consequence of Murphy's actions. So I guess that something more HAS come of it..... though I doubt the club will care.

What do you hope comes of it? More members join you and jump ship? Want to give the club a little more negative press? Want to spend money which we don’t have in recalling all the posters which have been sold and issue new ones where it’s been airbrushed? What?

Originally posted by Chicago1
Money talks at a "cash strapped club"

This is the most sickening part. Because of the position the club is in, you want to bend it over just to suit your own petty protest. You come here, the club gives you better treatment than it affords its own past players, and you repay it with bullshlt like this and trying to rubbish it in the papers. Pathetic.