2008 PDFL split

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Based on some discussions, facts, rumours and assumptions this is how I believe the final split may look.

Southern:

Katandra
Dookie
Shepp East
Katamatite
Waaia
Tungamah
Strathy
Yarroweyah

Northern:

Picola
Wunghnu
Katunga
Berrigan
Deni
Jerrilderie
Blighty
Mathoura

Rennie could go either way. But I still dont know why they are allowed in if the vote was 15-1 against them???

The above is based on strathy's (and yarroweyah's if what I was told by one of their players is correct) wish to be in the southern div. Have also heard the Berrigan and for some unknown reasen KATUNGA wish to be in the northern. Apperently Katunga dont beleive they can compete in the southern league finacially.

Will be interesting believe Picola might also want into the Southern league, why ??
Also told Rennie is definately in the Southern and have been told a few times Rennies vote was 18-14 in favour of there entry into the comp, but it was pointed out that they required a 2 3rds majority to get in.
But then again plenty of stories indicate those now wanting into the Southern comp., that Rennie are in, strongly oppossed their entry into the comp. as they didn't want to have to play them, so ???

 

[sparra]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Short term this forum/board will remain as one unless there is a exceptional reason/circumstance given for seperation which I don't see occuring and therefore any attempt by anyone to seperate the main thread will be dismissed.
Personally think the league and rightfully so will see clubs switch between comps for quite some time.
This particular thread may see some changes once all details are confirmed/finalised and most likely will form part of the main PDFL thread.

Looks to me from afar that the southern comp might just return to the name of Tungamah football League, and with Picola in the northern comp it will remain as the PDFL. Slot Rennie into the Northern comp, and I couldn't see any reason for sides to be switching comps. I have based these leagues on the intimidators post.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Looks to me from afar that the southern comp might just return to the name of Tungamah football League, and with Picola in the northern comp it will remain as the PDFL. Slot Rennie into the Northern comp, and I couldn't see any reason for sides to be switching comps. I have based these leagues on the intimidators post.

The recent vote to split the league , I beleive was conducted on the basis that Rennie joins the Southern comp ?? and personally and completely unbiased of coarse,, think there best suited there. Maybe the comps should have, and could end up being formed on the basis of those that supported and those that didn't Rennies inclusion

 

[themagicfrog]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Talking to some Berrigan Players and Parents they wont be happy if they end up in the SE comp.

 

[GrassKat]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Talking to some Berrigan Players and Parents they wont be happy if they end up in the SE comp.

Have heard a bit about a Berrigan and Strathmerton swap. Which I think will be good for both parties. The 9 to 7 call is a bit of a worry. What teams were 100% against the split, I say this as I know a few were against the split as the felt we needed another year to think about it.

I hope your club is more successful due to this change. Also back to the old final 5 that everyone loves and cannot argue about.

I suppose the conversations will now become SE v NW as to what is the better league, just like occurs with the PDFL & the KDFL.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Have heard of 8 clubs at least looking to swap competitions, where and when will this end, and why did the league send out the questionare weeks ago and come up with a split, that has been voted upon, so far from what clubs wanted ??

 

[TTTT]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Have heard of 8 clubs at least looking to swap competitions, where and when will this end, and why did the league send out the questionare weeks ago and come up with a split, that has been voted upon, so far from what clubs wanted ??

i think the best thing to do is to not let any clubs except for berrigan swap comps until after the first season is finished

NORTH: mathoura, deni, blighty, berrigan, jerriderie, yarroweyah, strathy, picola, wunghnu

SOUTH: katandra, dookie, shep east, tungamah, katy, waaia, rennie, katunga

if not then the whole thing should be postponed untill 2010, because by the time everything is soughted out the season will be due to start

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

i think the best thing to do is to not let any clubs except for berrigan swap comps until after the first season is finished

NORTH: mathoura, deni, blighty, berrigan, jerriderie, yarroweyah, strathy, picola, wunghnu

SOUTH: katandra, dookie, shep east, tungamah, katy, waaia, rennie, katunga

if not then the whole thing should be postponed untill 2010, because by the time everything is soughted out the season will be due to start

Generally the feeling tends to be that clubs are concerned about whether they can compete against the better teams over a sustained period, wonder if anyone thought of relegation/promotion, as it appears the middle of the road sides which are those ones to and froing

 

[chicken machine]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Generally the feeling tends to be that clubs are concerned about whether they can compete against the better teams over a sustained period, wonder if anyone thought of relegation/promotion, as it appears the middle of the road sides which are those ones to and froing

the relegation promotion system works wonders for the ammos and is a proven method works every well, all competitions are very even. would be great to see a 3 tier system with the murray league and picola leagues combined. The top 5 teams from each league in div 1, middle 5 from both leagues in div 2, and bottom 5 teams from both league div 3 as an example. the senior grand finalists (premiers & runners up) to be promoted into the next div and the bottom 2 to be relegated. could use same setup as ammos and call it murray league A,B,C grades.

having said the above i have heard they have already made a decision can anyone shed any light on the subject?
Cheers

 

[Herb]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Generally the feeling tends to be that clubs are concerned about whether they can compete against the better teams over a sustained period, wonder if anyone thought of relegation/promotion, as it appears the middle of the road sides which are those ones to and froing

I for one am not a big fan of the promotion/relegation. Perhaps in the future if certain teams were unhappy in their respective leagues and organised to change with another side that also wanted to change, (like the Berrigan & Strathy situation) I think that should be looked at down the track.
If you look at Strathy, they are more likely to have success in the Northern Competition. If I was in charge of a side, I’d want to play where I could succeed or had the best chance of doing so. I’d rather travel the extra half an hour to play footy and go in knowing I’ve got a good chance to win a game. I’m surprised that Strathy want to swap, they would go from a top 2-3 side in the Northern Comp to a bottom 4 in the Southern Comp. I can however see why Berrigan do.

 

[themagicfrog]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

the relegation promotion system works wonders for the ammos and is a proven method works every well, all competitions are very even. would be great to see a 3 tier system with the murray league and picola leagues combined. The top 5 teams from each league in div 1, middle 5 from both leagues in div 2, and bottom 5 teams from both league div 3 as an example. the senior grand finalists (premiers & runners up) to be promoted into the next div and the bottom 2 to be relegated. could use same setup as ammos and call it murray league A,B,C grades.

having said the above i have heard they have already made a decision can anyone shed any light on the subject?
Cheers

Brada, have a read through last couple pages and you will see what's going on. I know you love your Ammo's but i don't think it was even a consideration in this process. Pitty.

 

[smooth mover]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

I for one am not a big fan of the promotion/relegation. Perhaps in the future if certain teams were unhappy in their respective leagues and organised to change with another side that also wanted to change, (like the Berrigan & Strathy situation) I think that should be looked at down the track.
If you look at Strathy, they are more likely to have success in the Northern Competition. If I was in charge of a side, I’d want to play where I could succeed or had the best chance of doing so. I’d rather travel the extra half an hour to play footy and go in knowing I’ve got a good chance to win a game. I’m surprised that Strathy want to swap, they would go from a top 2-3 side in the Northern Comp to a bottom 4 in the Southern Comp. I can however see why Berrigan do.

I can let you in on a little bit of info that i heard about strathy herb!
From what i have gathered they want to be put into the southern league because up to 8 of their shepp based players have said their not interested in the northern comp, so with the threat of loosing some quality players they want to be moved into the southern comp!

So i'm guessing its a case of them going into southern league & being reasonably competitive or staying in the northern comp, loosing those players & being not so competitive & their club image looking bad!

But I thought that if rennie gets in the southern league that berrigan were automatically put into the northern league? so if that is the case then strathy wont have anyone to trade places with unless katunga are keen on the swap which i had previously heard they wanted to be in the northern comp! So that mite be my prediction on what could happen!!!

 

[chicken machine]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Brada, have a read through last couple pages and you will see what's going on. I know you love your Ammo's but i don't think it was even a consideration in this process. Pitty.


would have been great if they had adopted a 3 div system with top two going up bottom two going down, it would be a great comp.
I did some scratching on a pad on this yrs results, heres how the divs would have looked if you took the top 5 from both leagues(div1) middle 5 from both leagues(div2) and bottom 5 from both leagues(div3) be mindful the ladders are not in any order were just grouped as stated above.


Div 1 div 2 div3
Moama strathy echuca
Tungamah Numurkah congupna
Dookie deni rams katamatite
Barooga deni rovers Picola utd
Waaia shepp east berrigan
Nathalia cobram finley
Katandra blighty mathoura
Rumbalara Tocumwal yarraweyah
Katunga Jerilderie wunghue
Tongala mulwala

I know a decision has already been made however, what are peoples thoughts on the above?

 

[theintimidator]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Generally the feeling tends to be that clubs are concerned about whether they can compete against the better teams over a sustained period, wonder if anyone thought of relegation/promotion, as it appears the middle of the road sides which are those ones to and froing

Ha ha yeah I wonder. I believe that it was all the central clubs (with the exception of wunghnu) that voted no. i:e strathy. yarr, waaia, katunga, picola, katty as they really have nothing to gain in their travel by spliting the league. But you are right about clubs being concerned with being competitve on a sustained basis in southern league. I would imagine it will be very hard to get a finals berth in the south league top 5 with Waaia, Katandra, Tungamah, Shepp East and Dookie in the mix.

 

[theintimidator]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

I can let you in on a little bit of info that i heard about strathy herb!
From what i have gathered they want to be put into the southern league because up to 8 of their shepp based players have said their not interested in the northern comp, so with the threat of loosing some quality players they want to be moved into the southern comp!

So i'm guessing its a case of them going into southern league & being reasonably competitive or staying in the northern comp, loosing those players & being not so competitive & their club image looking bad!

But I thought that if rennie gets in the southern league that berrigan were automatically put into the northern league? so if that is the case then strathy wont have anyone to trade places with unless katunga are keen on the swap which i had previously heard they wanted to be in the northern comp! So that mite be my prediction on what could happen!!!

Not sure were you get your info from there smooth moover. For a a start we dont have 8 shepp based players. I can count 4. Secondly all players have thrown their support behind the club and committee regardless of the descision made.

The way I see it (this by no means represents the opinion of the club) Going to the southern Division would have the advantages of less travel and more gate takings BUT we would have to spend more on recruits to be truly competitve in that league.

Staying in our allocated northern comp would allow us to remain more competitve on a sustained basis however the income from gate/bar takings on home games would be reduced and therfore we would have to work harder on other income methods. Also the increased travel of the northern league may make it harder on the junior grades and filling a reserves and some of the lower netball grades.

So as you can see for strathy (and few clubs in a similar situation) there are arguments for going either way..... In our comittee we trust!!!

 

[smooth mover]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

Not sure were you get your info from there smooth moover. For a a start we dont have 8 shepp based players. I can count 4. Secondly all players have thrown their support behind the club and committee regardless of the descision made.

The way I see it (this by no means represents the opinion of the club) Going to the southern Division would have the advantages of less travel and more gate takings BUT we would have to spend more on recruits to be truly competitve in that league.

Staying in our allocated northern comp would allow us to remain more competitve on a sustained basis however the income from gate/bar takings on home games would be reduced and therfore we would have to work harder on other income methods. Also the increased travel of the northern league may make it harder on the junior grades and filling a reserves and some of the lower netball grades.

So as you can see for strathy (and few clubs in a similar situation) there are arguments for going either way..... In our comittee we trust!!!

Yeah sorry intim I should have clarified that abit more, by 8 shepp based players i mean the 1's that live in shepp & their friends! I was just putting them into a whole to make it easier to explain! So not having a dig at you boys i was just explaing a point to herb ( some info that i had been told personally by someone involved their ) as to a possibility on why your club may be wanting to make such a decision! Which in my opinion which ever is going to be more finaciably stable for your club you'd be crazy not to want to make the move! But as we all know there are the good old PROS & CONS for every decision made! & unfortunately we all have to think very carefully so it doesn't put us out on our arse's in a couple of years! Whichever decision your club makes goodluck with it & hopefully pans out to be the correct 1!

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

For those interested here is a list off the trusty old spread sheet of the travelling involved in either comp. if playing each side away once, keep in mind that there is 1 extra team in the south/east league.

South East
Berrigan 622.9
Katunga 299.6
Katandra 298.7
Tungamah 336.9
Kattamatite 249.9
Dookie 359.4
Waaia 364.7
Shepp East 376.9
Rennie 779.3

North West
Jerilderie 691.4
mathoura 581.3
yarroweyah 459.0
Picola 514.9
Rovers 596.1
Blighty 534
Strathy 449.0
Wunghnu 559.9

And if sides swapped comps without any over change so these clubs to the South East comp. once again keep in mind 1 more club in the South East comp.

Jerilderie 956.90
Mathoura 1145.40
Yarroweyah 402.7
Picola 623.20
Rovers 1199.20
Blighty 891.6
Strathy 427.90
Wunghnu 403.6

And if those in the South East comp. swapped solely into the North West comp. without any change .

Berrigan 570.4
Katunga 461.6
Katandra 732.5
Tungamah 715.4
Katty 545.0
Dookie 870.5
Waaia 522.7
Shepp East 794.3
Rennie 838.1

OOOOOOhhh !!!

 

[Bendi]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

For those interested here is a list off the trusty old spread sheet of the travelling involved in either comp. if playing each side away once, keep in mind that there is 1 extra team in the south/east league.

South East
Berrigan 622.9
Katunga 299.6
Katandra 298.7
Tungamah 336.9
Kattamatite 249.9
Dookie 359.4
Waaia 364.7
Shepp East 376.9
Rennie 779.3

North West
Jerilderie 691.4
mathoura 581.3
yarroweyah 459.0
Picola 514.9
Rovers 596.1
Blighty 534
Strathy 449.0
Wunghnu 559.9

And if sides swapped comps without any other change, so these clubs to the South East comp. once again keep in mind 1 more club in the South East comp. so one extra trip has been included into the calculations.

Jerilderie 956.90
Mathoura 1145.40
Yarroweyah 402.7
Picola 623.20
Rovers 1199.20
Blighty 891.6
Strathy 427.90
Wunghnu 403.6

And if those in the South East comp. swapped solely into the North West comp. without any change .

Berrigan 570.4
Katunga 461.6
Katandra 732.5
Tungamah 715.4
Katty 545.0
Dookie 870.5
Waaia 522.7
Shepp East 794.3
Rennie 838.1

OOOOOOhhh !!!

If you talk about straight out travel reasons. Strathy does not have a real case to enter in the south east comp. There is stuff all distance. Same with Yarroweyah. Guess that happens when you are dead bang in the middle.

So would the NW comp Granny be at Strathy ( if the cops let them or some where more central?
ANd would SE be at Katunga the traditional or somewhere more central/closer to shepp?

 

[Hand Grenade]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

If you talk about straight out travel reasons. Strathy does not have a real case to enter in the south east comp. There is stuff all distance. Same with Yarroweyah. Guess that happens when you are dead bang in the middle.

So would the NW comp Granny be at Strathy ( if the cops let them or some where more central?
ANd would SE be at Katunga the traditional or somewhere more central/closer to shepp?

SE Grand Final should definitely be played at Rennie in 2009. Superior venue (regular host of the Coreen League GF's) and it would be a fantastic way for all the other clubs to welcome the Grasshoppers Club into the PDFL. (Obviously all the gate, bar and canteen takings can go to the club as a further offering of good will).

(No problems with security or crowd misbehaviour out there either).

 

[TTTT]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

If you talk about straight out travel reasons. Strathy does not have a real case to enter in the south east comp. There is stuff all distance. Same with Yarroweyah. Guess that happens when you are dead bang in the middle.

So would the NW comp Granny be at Strathy ( if the cops let them or some where more central?
ANd would SE be at Katunga the traditional or somewhere more central/closer to shepp?[/quote]

dont think strathy would wont it after what happened this year; id say for the NW comp deni would be most clubs prefered option and for the SE comp shepp east would most likely get it.

will be interesting to see how big the crowds are during finals, would think the SE comp would attract more people, also would the grandfinals be held on the same day or one saturday and the other on the sunday

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

If you talk about straight out travel reasons. Strathy does not have a real case to enter in the south east comp. There is stuff all distance. Same with Yarroweyah. Guess that happens when you are dead bang in the middle.

So would the NW comp Granny be at Strathy ( if the cops let them or some where more central?
ANd would SE be at Katunga the traditional or somewhere more central/closer to shepp?[/quote]

dont think strathy would wont it after what happened this year; id say for the NW comp deni would be most clubs prefered option and for the SE comp shepp east would most likely get it.

will be interesting to see how big the crowds are during finals, would think the SE comp would attract more people, also would the grandfinals be held on the same day or one saturday and the other on the sunday

Wouldn't have a problem with the NW granny at Strathy as you might not have so many ferals from the South East comp. at it.
Don't think Deni would be a good option as you would not have the drawing power of the Shepp crowds, nor is it a true representative of the average ground size played on during the year, leave it central to both leagues, and although it would add travel for some, would still give the greatest opportunity for people associated with both comps to attend and the greatest opportunity to draw upon the Shepparton population.
Strathy not wanting it would be a shame, maybe it needs to be proportioned a bit more to take the work load off the club holding the granny and all clubs lending a hand, don't mind the idea of all the clubs getting together the weekend before to have a working bee and a few frothy's, imagine this, working bee on the Sunday, stay around Strathy, Cobram that night , spend a day having a little fish on the Monday and then off to the league vote count the Monday night. Might spark the vote count up to
As for the S/E comp. return it to Katunga for the same reasons mentioned above, average ground size , is located centrally to both leagues and within close proximaty to the nearest large city. Shepp East ground is a nice surface but is round , not comparitive to other grounds .

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

]If you talk about straight out travel reasons. Strathy does not have a real case to enter in the south east comp. There is stuff all distance. Same with Yarroweyah. Guess that happens when you are dead bang in the middle.[/B]

So would the NW comp Granny be at Strathy ( if the cops let them or some where more central?
ANd would SE be at Katunga the traditional or somewhere more central/closer to shepp?

Not so sure about that, as what I said in the original post the south east comp has one extra trip calculated into it, compared to the north west comp.
So have updated figures to calculate clubs making 8 away trips per year, have done by calculating aver. trip currently travelled in the North West comp and adding it to the distance already expected to travel in that comp.
Likewise , have claculated the average distance that would be travelled if the North West teams swapped comps and minused that from that total distance travelled with the current clubs(9), to bring it back to 8 away trips.
Based on these comps.

South East
Staying within this comp/ if swapped/ benefit of swap
Rennie 779.3 - 838.1 - None
SE 376.9 - 794.3 - None
Waaia 364.7 - 522.7 - None
Dookie 359.4 - 870.5 - None
katty 249.9 - 545.0 - None
tunga 336.9 - 715.4 - None
kats 298.7 - 732.5 - None
katunga 299.6 - 461.6 - None
berrigan 622.9 - 570.4 - 52.5

North West
Staying within this comp / if swapped / benefit of swap
Jerilderie 790.2 - 850.58 - None
Mathaz 664.3 - 1018.13 - None
The weir 524.6 - 357.96 - 166.64
Picola 588.5 - 553.96 - 34.54
Rovers 681.3 - 1065.96 - None
Blighty 610.3 - 792.53 - None
Strathy 513.1 - 380.36 - 132.74
Wunghnu 639.9 - 358.76 - 281.14

Note these are done as said on averages, the swapping of individual clubs obviously would make significant changes to certain comps.

 

[themagicfrog]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

One Pearce medal or two?

 

[Herb]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

One Pearce medal or two?

Definitely 2 medals, there is no way you could have just the one. It’s essentially 2 different competitions.

 

[MrsKenGriffeySnr]

Re: CHANGES TO CURRENT PDFL ( merged ) NEW COMP / MFL/PDFL 3 Division System Threads

I think that the relegation system is unrealistic. In theory it sounds OK, but it is important to remember a few things.
In the Amateurs there is no netball and the juniors have their own relegation system. So the under 19s have a couple of divisions and they get relegated/promoted totally independent of the seniors and reserves. They also play on different ground all over the city. This wouldn't be possible in country football as the juniors can't travel independently of the seniors and reserves.
So the problems are legion. The relegation system could result in a town like Cobram (who are having a rough trot of late) pop. 5000 approx playing a side like Tungamah or Katandra pop. 400 approx. The senior game might be competitive for a year or two, so might the reserves. The juniors, however, would be pretty one-sided. And the netball would also be more and more one-sided as you go down the grades. What junior kid, who is thinking about if he/she wants to play and for who, is going to choose a side that gets absolutely r*ped over one that is continually winning? And if you're getting beaten easily, suddenly not playing football at all or taking up soccer starts to look like a pretty good option.
My opinion is that a relegation system in the country would end up with smaller towns with weaker clubs becoming weaker and folding, and stronger clubs becoming stronger with more numbers.
In terms of making the competitions more equitable, I think that clubs should be more accepting of change. I think that the north/south divide is a good idea and that Murray League clubs, it they are struggling, should be told that they are going down. And stronger clubs in the lower leagues should be told they are going up. Not every year, but if they have 2-3 years where they are winning, or 2-3 years where they are losing. This would be less finite and more opinion-based which would make it hard to regulate but I think that juniors and netball are too important to a lot of clubs....