2009-2011

[threesixpio]

These years are often seen as the crap years. This might be because of a conflation of the last two flags with 2008 - a year where we actually had a very different team playing.

A lot of the "good work" articles about Hawthorn concentrates on pre 2008.

We are on the verge of a 3 peat which means we were doing a heap in these years to get to where we are.

What are the big turn around moments during this time?

I'll say Burgers coming in.

 

[Hawkas1988]

Burgers Gibson, Hale, Gunston (end of 2011) all traded in, in these years.

Drafting of Smith, Puopolo, Hill, Langford, Stratton, Duryea, Litherland etc all done in this period.

At the end of 2010 we had a massive clean out of players and cut many of the deadwood at the time (Dowler, Muston, Moss, Taylor, Kaylor-Thomson, Stokes, Hooper etc.

We transformed our club through this period and essentially rebuilt our list from about our 12th best player to the rest of our depth players. Kept the core and drafted/recruited ridiculously well. Turned our club from a little threat but underachieving (due to how good our core group was but how poor our depth and bottom 8 players in the 22 were) to an absolute powerhouse with incredible depth and talent.

Look at our team during 2010 or 09 and compare that to now. It's amazing what we have done. Even in 08 we look so much weaker as a "whole" list compared to the past 2 years.

This 3 year period returned us to the summit with longevity to it. Our list is in amazing shape and with the coming retirements over the next few years, we will be hurt by it, but we are in a much better position to handle them compared to 3 years ago.

So proud of the coaching and recruiting staff in what they did in this period and continue to do.

 

[Agent Smith]

Even in 2012 there are popular thoughts that we couldn't cover WhiteX or Goo in the Grand Final when they were injured, but you compare that to two years later and our depth is far more remarkable. We seem to be going from strength to strength at the moment... who knows where we'll be this time next year?

 

[Leather Poisoning]

These years were a case of compounding mistakes that brought things to a head.

Can't believe the changes in this period.

2009 - clarko actually pioneered a version of the forward press. Used to drive me crazy seeing buddy (much heavier and pointing to the sky for the long bomb) and roughy given no room to work in, while Ellis, Bateman, moss, stokes, Kennedy and Morton would crowd half forward hand balling like crazy until the eventual turnover resulting in a clean and easy goal to the opposition.

The injuries were awful and we had no depth to cover. The Lloyd snipe was quite a defining full stop on the season from hell in terms of the promise-delivery gap. I believe this was the year Johnny barker came to the club. It was the year our bumper crop from 2005 and 2006 drafts should have been chalking up their 50th games and consolidating their afl careers.

2010 - interesting season because we started off so badly and then clawed our way back. We were really close to a top 4 finish, losing to those ****in cats by less than a goal and a Ben McEvoy goal to draw against the saints robbing us of vital premiership points.

The game plan was really defensive - we attacked via the spot where the 50m line net the boundary, where we would consolidate and then try to enter 50. Top sides never got that far ahead of us with that game style, but we never got far ahead either. We also employed the chop chip to control the tempo of games.

It was a year where we were pasting over our weaknesses (lack of pace, no small forward apart from Cyril, back line issues)

2011 - bit of a blur for me. All I remember is getting thumped by collingwood by 7 goals during the season with an injury riddled sides, then just missing out on beating them in the prelim. Was this the finals series where buddy did his knee and made the remarkable recovery to play the following week?

Clarko made huge changes each season to playing style and personnel. The foundations of the b2b flags were built here.

 

[Brant]

Even in 2012 there are popular thoughts that we couldn't cover WhiteX or Goo in the Grand Final when they were injured, but you compare that to two years later and our depth is far more remarkable. We seem to be going from strength to strength at the moment... who knows where we'll be this time next year?

Enjoying our 3-peat & laughing at someone for starting a 7-peat thread!

 

[kazzooka]

In my thoughts 2009 was the year we released that the "depth" and "young talent" we were talking up all through 2008 was a lie and also that some of the good performs of 2008 couldn't back it up on their own. Birchall had a down year, ladson, williams and osborne lost a bit. Bateman didn't match 08, young and ellis couldn't get out on the park and croad spent 2 years on the list without playing.

A word of caution for anyone expecting woodward, anderson, sheils, whitecross, orourke, langford, hartung etc.. to be absolute A grade need to remember that potential isn't always fulfilled and many thought the same of ellis, thorp, dowler, muston, kennedy, tuck, morton and renouf. It was also the year that the cluster was no longer as effective as before, and other teams (StKilda) had improved on it to make a superior version. Clarkson stated that due to injuries and the replacements for the 6 that left after 08 not coming on he didn't realise it till about round 7 2010.

This depth problem spurred us abandon our youth policy (along with the dew success) and pick up guys from other clubs/mature recruits as we knew with hodge, mitchell, lewis, rough, judas, birchall, guerra, rioli etc.. we had the top end just needed consistent afl standard support guys to keep up competetive.

enter poppy, stratts, smith, hale, burgoyne, gibson, lake, frawley, bruce, cheney, spanger, johnson, skipper, simpkin, ross and others. Some worked some didn't but keeping guys like Cheney who where never gonna be picked grand final day with everyone available but would do a much better job filling in when injuries occured than the previous years pick 15 that is still 2 years of being ready. This kind of approach was also paired with an idea to be patient with players that need to develop. Bruest, Suckling, Langford, duryea, and litherland got given plenty of time to work on their bodies and weren't gifted games before they could contribute. but when they got them they call came good.

I think another key recruitment plan that we planned was getting gunston and orouke (tried it on longer as well) after their first contract. Getting young players in that we liked in the draft but missed out on. Having 2 years training put into them so we don't need to wait for them to bulk up, and getting to see them at AFL level means we knew more than when they were drafted but they were yet to demand high compensation. Getting Gunstan was a steal and O'rourke could be as well.

Also one point about our style of play from round 7 2010/2011. Chris Fagan was a coach at my local club at the time and said we basically adopted collingwoods style. By playing the wings we could reduce the amount of turnovers that result in easy joe the goose goals. So we were attacking in a way that made our defense easier to set up. We also deliberately chose not to kick to the "hot spot" when attacking but would rather it go out in the foward pocket and cause a stoppage. Apparently the players took this too far though and they started to adapt to using "half" the ground as apposted to 10 meters in from the line. This was the start of our 45 degree zig zag kicking that has been so successful.

 

[Davo-27]

2009 we were known as the team that kicked backwards and over-use of the handball, we lost sight of our attacking football in 2008 that won us the flag and because of losing some key players after 2008 this hurt us more than we thought it would(crawf(star mid) croad(best tall def) campbell(warrior ruck)ect), but mainly all i remember of this year was us kicking backwards and holding onto possession rather than moving the ball on, with injuries and changing of the guard it really was a terrible year

2010 we started to play a better style of football and brought in some talent from other clubs, this was the start of our journey we have enjoyed so far, about mid-year this year was when we became a force

2011 was great, just missed GF because Collingwood kicked goals out of their butts, even some buddy magic couldnt get us over the line, also we still had a bit of a defensive mindset that was slowly changing to our more attacking brand we are used to today

2012 was the year we became a goal-kicking force, was probably our best year in ages as far as kicking goals and being attacking, just choked on the big stage unfortunately and sydney were a hard nosed team that year, the combo meant we lost that GF

 

[mustang]

In my thoughts 2009 was the year we released that the "depth" and "young talent" we were talking up all through 2008 was a lie and also that some of the good performs of 2008 couldn't back it up on their own. Birchall had a down year, ladson, williams and osborne lost a bit. Bateman didn't match 08, young and ellis couldn't get out on the park and croad spent 2 years on the list without playing.

A word of caution for anyone expecting woodward, anderson, sheils, whitecross, orourke, langford, hartung etc.. to be absolute A grade need to remember that potential isn't always fulfilled and many thought the same of ellis, thorp, dowler, muston, kennedy, tuck, morton and renouf. It was also the year that the cluster was no longer as effective as before, and other teams (StKilda) had improved on it to make a superior version. Clarkson stated that due to injuries and the replacements for the 6 that left after 08 not coming on he didn't realise it till about round 7 2010.

This depth problem spurred us abandon our youth policy (along with the dew success) and pick up guys from other clubs/mature recruits as we knew with hodge, mitchell, lewis, rough, judas, birchall, guerra, rioli etc.. we had the top end just needed consistent afl standard support guys to keep up competetive.

enter poppy, stratts, smith, hale, burgoyne, gibson, lake, frawley, bruce, cheney, spanger, johnson, skipper, simpkin, ross and others. Some worked some didn't but keeping guys like Cheney who where never gonna be picked grand final day with everyone available but would do a much better job filling in when injuries occured than the previous years pick 15 that is still 2 years of being ready. This kind of approach was also paired with an idea to be patient with players that need to develop. Bruest, Suckling, Langford, duryea, and litherland got given plenty of time to work on their bodies and weren't gifted games before they could contribute. but when they got them they call came good.

I think another key recruitment plan that we planned was getting gunston and orouke (tried it on longer as well) after their first contract. Getting young players in that we liked in the draft but missed out on. Having 2 years training put into them so we don't need to wait for them to bulk up, and getting to see them at AFL level means we knew more than when they were drafted but they were yet to demand high compensation. Getting Gunstan was a steal and O'rourke could be as well.

Also one point about our style of play from round 7 2010/2011. Chris Fagan was a coach at my local club at the time and said we basically adopted collingwoods style. By playing the wings we could reduce the amount of turnovers that result in easy joe the goose goals. So we were attacking in a way that made our defense easier to set up. We also deliberately chose not to kick to the "hot spot" when attacking but would rather it go out in the foward pocket and cause a stoppage. Apparently the players took this too far though and they started to adapt to using "half" the ground as apposted to 10 meters in from the line. This was the start of our 45 degree zig zag kicking that has been so successful.

So the players in some way helped develop the game plan we use today by not following instructions to the letter that Clarko and team had set out over these weeks when he changed the game plan mid season. If so I wonder if Clarko was like this could work or ripping shreds of them.

 

[Stranglers]

2011 - bit of a blur for me. All I remember is getting thumped by collingwood by 7 goals during the season with an injury riddled sides, then just missing out on beating them in the prelim. Was this the finals series where buddy did his knee and made the remarkable recovery to play the following week?

Yep. Hyperextension during a marking contest in the QF loss against Geelong, but made it back the following week for the Hawks to dispatch the Swans fairly easily. I remember 2011 being marked by injury - by round 14 we had half our best 22 on the injury list. Interestingly enough apart from an uncharacteristic loss to Adelaide in round 1, the only teams that defeated us that year were the two eventual Grand Finalists. Final position for us that year was exactly right on performance.

 

[kazzooka]

So the players in some way helped develop the game plan we use today by not following instructions to the letter that Clarko and team had set out over these weeks when he changed the game plan mid season. If so I wonder if Clarko was like this could work or ripping shreds of them.

No, what Fagan told us is that they were instructed to bring the ball down the side of the ground and not the middle. They were also told not to switch the play unless in the defensive 50. The players took this as, hug the boundary line. When the coaching staff really intended for the entire width of the wing to be used. Eventually they caught on.

The idea is that if you turn the ball over in the middle its almost a certain goal because the opposition can kick any direction and you can't cover that much space.

Another thing that we were taught was "the bubble" the idea is to make the ground "smaller and more dense" every player is to be within 80 meters of the ball at all times. So if you are playing full back and the ball is in our forward pocket you push up the ground so that when the opposition has the ball there are 18 people to defending the kick.

 

[bris tarangau]

Another thing that we were taught was "the bubble" the idea is to make the ground "smaller and more dense" every player is to be within 80 meters of the ball at all times. So if you are playing full back and the ball is in our forward pocket you push up the ground so that when the opposition has the ball there are 18 people to defending the kick.

Agree. Evident in the 2013 PF from mid Q4, Cats just could not get it past the centre circle/square.

You just feel that Clarko is still looking at refining the game style, we'll be in for a big ride Hawks fans. Just no long term injuries please!

 

[Gene Simmons]

2009 taught us that we didn't have enough depth, I mean we lost Gilham during the NAB Cup and we turned to Robbie Campbell as full back!? This has been ducumented by Clarko many times that this was an area that we needed to improve.

Fast forward to 2014.. you don't need me to tell you how that went

 

[Leather Poisoning]

2009 taught us that we didn't have enough depth, I mean we lost Gilham during the NAB Cup and we turned to Robbie Campbell as full back!? This has been ducumented by Clarko many times that this was an area that we needed to improve.

Fast forward to 2014.. you don't need me to tell you how that went

It was a tough time.

Remember Hodge/Thorp ruck combo?

 

[Procrastinator35]

I don't know that 2011 should be included in this debate....We were 1 of 3 outstanding sides that year, & if not for Roughy's injury & a disgraceful umpiring decision of allowing Leon Davis's goal to stand, then we'd of been talking about 4 Grand Finals in a row now!

But, as other posters have noted....Our drafting in those 3 seasons has been 2nd to none...We nailed them good & proper!

 

[NicG]

2009 taught us that we didn't have enough depth, I mean we lost Gilham during the NAB Cup and we turned to Robbie Campbell as full back!? This has been ducumented by Clarko many times that this was an area that we needed to improve.

Fast forward to 2014.. you don't need me to tell you how that went

I've always wondered what would have happened if Crawford had retired straight away instead of initially saying he was going to play on. Given that this would have freed another spot up on the list, and there was question over Croad's foot, I suspect that Dawson wouldn't have been delisted.

Of course, it would have resulted in not drafting Savage (or maybe Lisle).

 

[Roddy]

I just look at that period as the injury and retirement driven dip/mini-rebuild that we had to have.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I just look at that period as the injury and retirement driven dip/mini-rebuild that we had to have.

2009 is the only season in clarko's senior coaching career where the side finished lower than the previous year.

 

[Brant]

I've always wondered what would have happened if Crawford had retired straight away instead of initially saying he was going to play on. Given that this would have freed another spot up on the list, and there was question over Croad's foot, I suspect that Dawson wouldn't have been delisted.

Of course, it would have resulted in not drafting Savage (or maybe Lisle).

The important thing is that Dawson WAS delisted - that's really all that matters!

 

[Lethality]

The injuries to senior players which saw Schoenmakers, Breust, Whitecross, Suckling and others get a chance. This provided us with some extra depth and class.

 

[QuietB]

I just look at that period as the injury and retirement driven dip/mini-rebuild that we had to have.

Three players are key IMO, Hill, Smith and Lake.

Crawford retired, Bateman fell off a cliff, and Young was Young. In 09 Young was the only run the Hawks had left. Hill is so underrated it is criminal - he is deadly delivering the ball inside 50. Smith and Hill have changed how the Hawks play.

Lake goes without saying. Frawley will have an equal and similar effect. If Frawley rediscovers his AA form no one will touch the Hawks next year.

At the end of the day the list is just better now. Hill is better than Bateman, Smith is better than Young, Lake is better than Schoe (and Croad for that matter) Gunston is better than Williams, Bruest is better than Osborne, Burgoyne is better than Ladson, etc. about the only downgrades are Crawford and Guerra.

 

[Agent Smith]

2009 is the only season in clarko's senior coaching career where the side finished lower than the previous year.

May that never happen again!

 

[Pessimistic]

Getting Brian Lake threw off the defensive shackles

In the 2014 grand final we melted them into silverware

 

[QuietB]

Getting Brian Lake threw off the defensive shackles

In the 2014 grand final we melted them into silverware

Getting Lake was everything. The whole Hawks get monstered by gorilla forwards died overnight. When Lake does not play it happens, when he does play (excluding Petrie brain fade game) monster forwards do SFA. In the finals Lake demolished Hawkins and annihilated Tippett - two things that no Hawk could do before 2013.

 

[tommyk72]

Getting Lake was everything. The whole Hawks get monstered by gorilla forwards died overnight. When Lake does not play it happens, when he does play (excluding Petrie brain fade game) monster forwards do SFA. In the finals Lake demolished Hawkins and annihilated Tippett - two things that no Hawk could do before 2013.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Without Lake I don't think we win either of the last two flags. When was the last time a team won a flag without at least a very solid full back?

Who is now the greatest recruiting coup. Brian Lake or Stewie Dew? That's a question for the ages!

 

[Blaze Storm]

Three players are key IMO, Hill, Smith and Lake.

At the end of the day the list is just better now. Hill is better than Bateman, Smith is better than Young, Lake is better than Schoe (and Croad for that matter) Gunston is better than Williams, Bruest is better than Osborne, Burgoyne is better than Ladson, etc. about the only downgrades are Crawford and Guerra.

And Guerra is debatable