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2012 draft

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Mr Magic said:
Why get personal, and why do the recruiters give a toss about your posts???

If you/we are so bad how is my money going to help???:rolleyes:
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Wow.
What's the point of flashy types when you can't win the ball or tackle to cause a turnover?
When Cotch leaves the middle we get smashed. But we don't need another until we make the GF?
Gotta get there first Magic, which would mean getting into the 8. (Which we have not been in since round 5 2008.)
That's not a short cut.
 
Mr Magic said:
Why get personal, and why do the recruiters give a toss about your posts???

If you/we are so bad how is my money going to help???:rolleyes:
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I never said they did. I never said they had to worry about me. You brought that up.

Not sure if serious about the last line. Maybe the 53k members should all stop paying up. Lets see if it has an affect hey? LMAO classic.
 
tigs2010 said:
I never said they did. I never said they had to worry about me. You brought that up.

Not sure if serious about the last line. Maybe the 53k members should all stop paying up. Lets see if it has an affect hey? LMAO classic.
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Since you like to make accusations when did I say they have to worry about my posts??
 

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Riskingheadandshin said:
Wow.
What's the point of flashy types when you can't win the ball or tackle to cause a turnover?
When Cotch leaves the middle we get smashed. But we don't need another until we make the GF?
Gotta get there first Magic, which would mean getting into the 8. (Which we have not been in since round 5 2008.)
That's not a short cut.
Click to expand...


You know what I really fear as a supporter. A few stakeholders are worrying about their jobs and putting their career prospects ahead of the premiership chances of the RFC. Thats what I fear, right or wrong. I don't work for RFC, I have no fear about 2013 , I know we have little chance of winning a premiership next year and the bookies putting their money were their mouth is don't either. So fussing over 2013 and spreading the finals stepping stone spin is a tangent short cut IMO to the detriment of a premiership team. Make no mistake GWS wouldn't think twice about it and if they are overlooking Grundy they definitely soley focussed on a premiership as quickly as possible!!.

Saying the others cannot lend support to Cotch is like slapping all the players that can help him in the middle across the face!!!
 
I can't see why we would take Vlastuin with pick 9. IMO there's too much talented, skillful players who we should take before hand if available.
 
You can never have too many mids and the great thing about having a surplus of quality players in certain positions is that you can always trade one or two down the track for qualty players that fill needs. However this applies doubly so when you have surplus quality KPP's. In fact even half-decent rucks & KPP's are eminently tradeable. Look what The Filth got for Dawes - heck, even we got a pick upgrade for Gus!

When was the last time we could actually afford to willingly trade out a decent player that gave us any real leverage at the trade table?
 
Gee there is alot of crap being posted atm about alot of things that most agree with but worded in different ways, Its not F**** brain surgery here guys - Plain & Simple
YOU PICK THE BEST POSSIBLE PLAYER YOU CAN AT YOUR PICK. - Regardless of needs

#32 , #34 , #43 are the selections that matter the most, If Richmond Football Club is solely relying on 1st round draft picks to get us to the next level - WE ARE F****K

My Biggest issue with taking Vlastuin is that he is more of the same, Vanilla player similar to Ellis,Conca - There is no superstar factor i can see, Sure he is inside and gets his hands dirty and a leader etc etc etc but so is Jackson,Tuck(leader in his own way)Newman.

We need more Delidio's,cotchins,Martins,Riewoldts guys that can turn games on their heads like Chapman,Ablett,Bartell,Franklin,Fyffe, etc etc - Sure they are hard to find But they are there and you dont get them going after Vanilla players.

What i have seen of Vlastuin is he is a very very reliable player that will give it his all,But looks like he is lacking pace and agility as well as having 0 X-Factor. Players that i like the look of in this draft that can become 'STARS' are apart from the toumpas,Whitfield are Stringer,Garlett,Menzel,Plowman (massive 192cm smart midfielder).

We should be looking for the Hidden Vlastuin's with our later selections.
#9 - Take the cream of the crop, The star player
#32 & #34 - Take the Workmen that are your Tuck,Jackson replacements
#43 - Take your X-Factor Big Man like a Spencer white types

Im starting to believe more & more that our coaching staff are getting to the stage where they are trying to coach for today rather than sticking to the long term plan of building properly. Vlastuin is a 'SAFE' selection for our recruiters with Low Risk but Medium Return - Lets not leave the next Buddy,Pav,Fyffe for the other teams that have the Balls to pick them
 
Mr Magic said:
You know what I really fear as a supporter. A few stakeholders are worrying about their jobs and putting their career prospects ahead of the premiership chances of the RFC. Thats what I fear, right or wrong. I don't work for RFC, I have no fear about 2013 , I know we have little chance of winning a premiership next year and the bookies putting their money were their mouth is don't either. So fussing over 2013 and spreading the finals stepping stone spin is a tangent short cut IMO to the detriment of a premiership team. Make no mistake GWS wouldn't think twice about it and if they are overlooking Grundy they definitely soley focussed on a premiership as quickly as possible!!.

Saying the others cannot lend support to Cotch is like slapping all the players that can help him in the middle across the face!!!
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Care to name names Magic? There is no doubt Dimma will be feeling the heat if no finals next year, but IMO that is warranted, he said internally they thought we would play finals this year, but we lost the close ones. He called the year a fail himself.
WTF else are they working towards?!

Foley getting injured hurt our midfield, Tucky battled manfully, Dusty had his moments. Call it what you want mate it's the unfortunate truth.
EVERYONE in the whole footy department who has been interviewed has stated the need for more midfielders to add to the rotations. It's a big hole we need to fill.
 

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THE_GUN said:
Gee there is alot of crap being posted atm about alot of things that most agree with but worded in different ways, Its not F**** brain surgery here guys - Plain & Simple
YOU PICK THE BEST POSSIBLE PLAYER YOU CAN AT YOUR PICK. - Regardless of needs

#32 , #34 , #43 are the selections that matter the most, If Richmond Football Club is solely relying on 1st round draft picks to get us to the next level - WE ARE F****K

My Biggest issue with taking Vlastuin is that he is more of the same, Vanilla player similar to Ellis,Conca - There is no superstar factor i can see, Sure he is inside and gets his hands dirty and a leader etc etc etc but so is Jackson,Tuck(leader in his own way)Newman.

We need more Delidio's,cotchins,Martins,Riewoldts guys that can turn games on their heads like Chapman,Ablett,Bartell,Franklin,Fyffe, etc etc - Sure they are hard to find But they are there and you dont get them going after Vanilla players.

What i have seen of Vlastuin is he is a very very reliable player that will give it his all,But looks like he is lacking pace and agility as well as having 0 X-Factor. Players that i like the look of in this draft that can become 'STARS' are apart from the toumpas,Whitfield are Stringer,Garlett,Menzel,Plowman (massive 192cm smart midfielder).

We should be looking for the Hidden Vlastuin's with our later selections.
#9 - Take the cream of the crop, The star player
#32 & #34 - Take the Workmen that are your Tuck,Jackson replacements
#43 - Take your X-Factor Big Man like a Spencer white types

Im starting to believe more & more that our coaching staff are getting to the stage where they are trying to coach for today rather than sticking to the long term plan of building properly. Vlastuin is a 'SAFE' selection for our recruiters with Low Risk but Medium Return - Lets not leave the next Buddy,Pav,Fyffe for the other teams that have the Balls to pick them
Click to expand...
spot on!
 
hey Magic Mushroom Man, when was the last time a team won a premiership without playing in a final in the previous years?
 

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Mr Magic said:
No, I agree with what you are saying that you need to win the ball, IMO you are completely misreading my point.

What I am saying, is this.

1.Just say 5 years to a premiership.

2.You get best available. recruit best available to get best team.

3. So do not think positionally anything just best available.

4. In the fourth year you have all the players you need except best available policy mean't you are one short in terms of extractor. So in draft for final year you get your extractor like Vlastuin or better and he is ready to play and you attack the premiership the next year.

So what I am saying is you need players to win the ball to win but you do not need them at the outset of a period when you are still buiding your list. You can get them in the end particularly when they can come on quickly like Selwood or you can get them via free agency/trades

Regarding the last paragrapgh, Vlastuin would have to match Kennedy as a bare minimum. You talk about stars but to me Macrae demonstrates more star quality potentially likewise Mayes, Grundy etc.. to me Vlastuin is good but the Gun referred to him as workmanlike, he played at HBF this year, he is after 11 in most phantoms so the necessary star aspect does not necessarily wash with me. Besides you do not necessarily need star extractors in the mauls today like the rucks , you need stars in space that kick goals like Chapman and Stevie J. Besides when I was talking about getting extractors via free agency I has sights on better options than Kennedy, aka real weapons of mass destruction that hit the scoreboard with a bang!
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I think that clarifies it a bit Mr Magic but I think playing inside mid would be would one of the hardest positions to play - especially for a first year kid going head to head with seasoned clearance kings of teams that are also hoping to win a flag.

I'm not sure leaving the extractor role to last is a great idea as any draftee will need to have the size, stamina and strength to play there for extended periods of time. Not only that, but most first year kids (even the guns) tend to tire out towards the back end of the season - that wouldn't be ideal for a crucial position going into any potential final series...

Also, I'm not sure how making the 8 or getting an elite young player in an area we need to strengthen is 'taking a shortcut'? We haven't made finals since 2001. I agree we need to build towards a premiership and to build the best team we can - surely addressing an area we need to strengthen (especially if Tuck isn't around in 4-5 years when we are going for a flag like you say) or first making the 8 would be steps along the way to achieving the ultimate goal? To win a grand final, we need winning finals experience and to get that, we need to just make the finals and get used to the increased pressure and intensity that comes with finals football.

I agree that our forward line is probably the area in need of the most improving but I think long term, we already have the nucleus of a good forward line - Jack, Vickery, Astbury/Griffiths, Elton, S. Edwards are all young and I think can become great players/stay as great players for many years yet. Throw in others like O'Hanlon, young Gideon Simon and we might have a few handy small/medium forward options next to the proven, serviceable options like Nahas. Keep in mind, our midfield will be rotating there to - if we have a deep, quality midfield, the overspill can act as forwards anyway.

After watching Sydney win the GF this year (they didn't really have much of a forward line) it seems to me the team with the stronger and harder midfield, will drive the ball forward more and subsequently create more chances to score, especially in the crunch games. Hawthorn, for all their star forwards and classy outside players, squandered chances and when the game was in the balance, the Sydney midfield unit surged and tipped the game in their favour.

Further to that, having flashy outside players would be great, but what happens when they spend most of their development having to run and chase the ball rather than getting first use because we lost the clearance? Surely if we have a strong inside midfield platform to build on that can win clearances and the hard ball, they can dish it off to the classier players who can do their thing and cause some damage? Surely having premium service and first use of the ball will only enhance their ability as outside players as they will have more opportunities to use the pill?
 
petro12 said:
I can't see why we would take Vlastuin with pick 9. IMO there's too much talented, skillful players who we should take before hand if available.
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Quigley has done his mock and not rated him that highly. I haven't seen much of him just some of the hype appears dubiously suspect in comparison to other commentary outside the board
 
CallMeAl said:
hey Magic Mushroom Man, when was the last time a team won a premiership without playing in a final in the previous years?
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Probably been a while, did the pies do it years ago? Anyway GWS could easily win a premiership first year into a finals if they develop it right . The thing is if we are 4 years from a premiership capable team we can't let 2013 get in the way of developing a premiership team and no, I am not talking about tanking , if anyone wants to go down that track
 
Really like your reasoning NUFC. Have been keen on Vlastuin for a while now. Think he is exactly what we need. Players like him improve the players around him. Will help out Cotch, Dusty, Conca, Lids etc immensely as he matures. People are arguing that we need to add cream but in my opinion we already have plenty of cream players. Cotch, Dusty, Lids can all shred sides. Jack up forward is an a grader and will only get better if we draft guys like Vlastuin to help win us more clean ball. As for stand out traits I would argue that Vlas's ball use, duel sidedness, leap and overhead marking are all top notch. Ability to read the play is also a strength and sheer willingness to compete cannot be overrated as we have seen with guys like Morris, Kingy and even Cotch, as this is the quality which really makes him so great.
 
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