List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Discussion

[flipper83]

No argument in what you say, I do however think that we need to seriously consider trading one or both of Wallis & Higgins. We won't get first round picks for them, but we might be able to significantly improve our selection order & by doing that we may be able to get more of the type of players we need.

Wallis is pretty much a tagger & we already have Picken who can do that job, and although I rate Higgins, he has been cruelled by injuries & is unlikely to ever reach the heights we all thought he was capable of in the early part of his career.

I agree we need more pace & skill in our side, maybe this is one way we can achieve this.

I don't think I'd be trading Wallis. I think he has a lot to offer the team. Sometimes we can a bit hung up on elements of a players game like speed and skills but not all great players have these. I see Wallis similarly to Matthew Boyd, although I think he is a better kick then Boyd. But more so he has played some great games for the club. He is still young and I don't think we would get a lot for him. Also he bleeds red and blue so I would be a little concerned about the message it sends and if it could come back to bite when we have a bunch of 25 year olds who might be asked to take smaller contracts with us due to loyalty. That said if a club came and offered a first rounder for him I would consider it but it aint gonna happen.

Higgins is an interesting one and really it comes down to what he would net us. He would probably leave as a free agent so it will come down to the type of contract that he is offered. Dale Thomas got a first band compo pick last year so I thought I would compare the two, higgins season this year and Thomas' 2013

Player Statistics Comparison
Shaun HigginsNameDale Thomas
Western BulldogsTeamCarlton Blues
ForwardPositionMidfield
122Career Games170
Geelong FalconsOriginGippsland Power
March 4, 1988Date of BirthJune 21, 1987
26yr 3mthAgeTurned 26 in 2013
184cmHeight185cm
89kgWeight86kg
2005 National DraftLast Drafted In2005 National Draft
Round 1, Pick #11Last Draft PositionPriority Pick #2
Western BulldogsLast Drafted ByCollingwood Magpies
2014Stats for Season2013
13Games5
11.2Kicks Per Game12.2
10.4Handballs Per Game9.6
21.5Disposals Per Game21.8
4.0Marks Per Game4.8
0.5Goals Per Game0
0.2Behinds Per Game0.4
3.5Tackles Per Game1.8
0Hitouts Per Game0
0.7Frees For Per Game1.0
0.8Frees Against Per Game1.2
4.7Contested Possessions Per Game7.2
15.9Uncontested Possessions Per Game14.6
16.2Effective Disposals Per Game16.4
75.3%Effective Disposals % Per Game75.2%
2.3Clangers Per Game3.6
0.4Contested Marks Per Game0.4
0.2Marks Inside 50 Per Game0
0.5Clearances Per Game1.8
3.0Rebound 50s Per Game2.2
2.4One Percenters Per Game1.0
0.2Bounces Per Game1.4
81.3Time On Ground % Per Game73.4

Surprisingly close stats and while I think Carlton was stupid to give Thomas the contract that they did we would have some control in the process by matching bids to push up prices. If we got a band 1 I would send him on his way but I really can't see it happening.

So what we would be looking at is probably an end of first round (around 20) or 2nd round (25-27)

I'd say Higgins is probably worth a mid 20's pick but the club will have to weigh up whether they want higgins' experience in the side for the next 5 years or if they would prefer a shot at a youngster. Tough call but provided Higgins was happy to go I would take the pick.

 

[flipper83]

Oh man that was formatted so much better when I was typing it. Sorry!
Not sure if the link will work but I'll give it a try http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...d1=1617&tid2=4&pid2=1608&type=A&fid1=O&fid2=O

 

[Dav1d]

what is odd to me about Wallis is his kicks under pressure aren't what annoy me, its his kicks under no pressure
like he'll get fed out a handpass, be in space ; metres clear of any opposition player and he'll slam it on the boot
this might just be experience or his team-mates not talking to him, telling him that he is clear but if he cleaned that up
and stopped going to ground so often I would think he will be a good player

 

[Peter Wallis]

Oh man that was formatted so much better when I was typing it. Sorry!
Not sure if the link will work but I'll give it a try http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=8&pid1=1617&tid2=4&pid2=1608&type=A&fid1=O&fid2=O

In regards to Thomas, I think Carlton have well & truly screwed up.

Its obvious that Thomas has lost 2 of his most important assets as a player, ie pace & kicking ability. However the club has committed to him & just have to accept the mistake they made.

Higgins isn't as high profile but in my opinion just as talented as Thomas was. If it wasn't for his injuries I have no doubt he would be well worth a first round pick but I agree that his value would be less than that now.

Unless we were to get an early 2nd round pick for him, I would prefer that he stay.

 

[TBOW]

Not really, the 2 KPP's tipped to be available at our pick are Goddard and perhaps Durdin. Neither are forwards and both are more of your 2nd forward/defenders not your gorilla types which I think is what we are all hoping for. In downgrading we have the potential to get Kietel, who fits this mold more, as well as someone with pace and good skills which is something that I think we still need in our team.
I think this years draft is pretty even at the top, not like last years, so potentially we could get 2 players who might go on to have better careers than the one taken with our pick.

Obviously it depends on how the recruiters rate each player and who they think will be available.

These days one of the key criteria for a player in any position is endurance.
Most recent champion key position forwards have busted games open with repeat leading & running opponents to exhaustion.

I think that is why Goddard was rated so highly. (I think I remember reading something about his aerobic ability last year.)

Does anyone in the know have an idea of how guys like Wright McCartin & Keitel stack up in this department?

 

[Godogs247]

Ok had a good think guys...

Hows this we :
Bulldogs give pick 4 to Gold Coast (Goddard who they want bad)

Gold coast give picks 10 (Picket) and pick 16 (Duggan)

I know everyone will say we need a tall but these 2 players will give us the polish around the other hard nuts

If we wanted a tall Keitel will be there at 16 as well...

Imagine a draft off:
1.Picket (forw/on baller pace)
2.Duggan (on baller/hback
3.Verdea (Wing/hback
4.Cordy (CHB)
5.Yong (upgraded

Foster rookie

This would be a draft of pace and kicking skills all players are elite and another 2 left footers

Then I think we should make a massive play for Patton in 2015


Thoughts???

 

[Wizard17]

Ok had a good think guys...

Hows this we :
Bulldogs give pick 4 to Gold Coast (Goddard who they want bad)

Gold coast give picks 10 (Picket) and pick 16 (Duggan)

I know everyone will say we need a tall but these 2 players will give us the polish around the other hard nuts

If we wanted a tall Keitel will be there at 16 as well...

Imagine a draft off:
1.Picket (forw/on baller pace)
2.Duggan (on baller/hback
3.Verdea (Wing/hback
4.Cordy (CHB)
5.Yong (upgraded

Foster rookie

This would be a draft of pace and kicking skills all players are elite and another 2 left footers

Then I think we should make a massive play for Patton in 2015


Thoughts???

Who?????? Would like Viojo-Rainbow or Langford in the second round and probably just re-rookie Jong

 

[Igloo]

Who?????? Would like Viojo-Rainbow or Langford in the second round and probably just re-rookie Jong

I'm guessing Laverde.

 

[Aldo]

Duggan seems to be massively overrated on this board. All phantoms have him going much much later than you guys are predicting, as well as the AFL website and the coverage they've had so far, in which the duggan interest has been minimal. Could it be possible that you've all sort of collectively overrated him? This board does that alot. Look at Boyd and Patton last year (and still this year..hhaha), or Aish, everyone just seems to hear a player could potentially be a good fit with us and then all of a sudden they're our make or break player. You blokes latch on reeeeaaal bad

Like Dav1d said, it's not us overrating him, it's the media severely underrating him. It's likely because he wasn't a big name last year so they haven't caught onto who he is yet. The close draft watchers on bigfooty have him rated really high. Chris25 and Knightmare have him going at number 6 and number 7 respectively.

 

[Hrovat24]

what is odd to me about Wallis is his kicks under pressure aren't what annoy me, its his kicks under no pressure
like he'll get fed out a handpass, be in space ; metres clear of any opposition player and he'll slam it on the boot
this might just be experience or his team-mates not talking to him, telling him that he is clear but if he cleaned that up
and stopped going to ground so often I would think he will be a good player

Come on Goddard show something

 

[Dav1d]

Come on Goddard show something

if we took him, we'd have two players that are cousins with ex St Kilda players

 

[Dav1d]

http://boundforglorynews.com/jourdan-canils-phantom-draft/

ah, bit different that mock draft

rated Menadue in the first round; interesting


http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-06-26/de-goeys-hard-lesson

also a bit on De Goey

 

[Hrovat24]

if we took him, we'd have two players that are cousins with ex St Kilda players

Nothing wrong with that

 

[Hrovat24]

http://boundforglorynews.com/jourdan-canils-phantom-draft/

ah, bit different that mock draft

rated Menadue in the first round; interesting


http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-06-26/de-goeys-hard-lesson

also a bit on De Goey

has us taking Goddard and his similar to jack watts but not as good , no thank you

 

[Dav1d]

has us taking Goddard and his similar to jack watts but not as good , no thank you

similar at the same age it might mean though, I don't really get the similarities...unless it means their inability to dominate games when they should be able to
I mean Goddard has the frame, the athleticism, the skills, the professional attitude; you see him get the oppositions second/third best defender playing as a forward, think hes in for a big day and then he is pretty much unsighted

Nothing wrong with that

....I meant more..REVENGE

 

[Hrovat24]

similar at the same age it might mean though, I don't really get the similarities...unless it means their inability to dominate games when they should be able to
I mean Goddard has the frame, the athleticism, the skills, the professional attitude; you see him get the oppositions second/third best defender playing as a forward, think hes in for a big day and then he is pretty much unsighted


....I meant more..REVENGE

must have shown something over the years if his going top ten in a draft , maybe he is tanking as well trying to get to his desired club

 

[Dav1d]

must have shown something over the years if his going top ten in a draft , maybe he is tanking as well trying to get to his desired club

I think he is like our Roughead when played up forward, just looks better as a defender; more comfortable and better stats
wasn't pretty in the game I watched, he had like 8 touches and his first 4 touches went straight to the opposition

some recruiters draft based on what some players have produced on years past, our recruiter seems to like players that have produced in their draft year

Corey Ellis is a player I've liked the look of, didn't think he was that skinny as phantom drafts have said nor did I think his kicking skills were that fantastic; if we had those picks; might see us grab two midfielders with our first two picks; wouldn't mind getting DeGoey and Duggan or Ellis and DeGoey or Ellis and Lever; plenty of good combinations and the GC board talk about how they're right; they'll get Lachie Weller, but thats not 100% because he might go as high as 7 and even our pick they might like to pick up Goddard to add to their KPP depth; we'll see though

the draft can't come soon enough

 

[True Dog]

Great work guys (Dav1d & Wizard 17 in particular), I really enjoy you're insights...

 

[Zgope1]

i cant believe how much has already been written on the draft thread. The post number will triple a couple weeks before the draft too. good work guys

 

[Dav1d]

i cant believe how much has already been written on the draft thread. The post number will triple a couple weeks before the draft too. good work guys

its mostly been me and Wizard, I even said to send messages when we found new stuff because we didn't want to clog the draft thread or double post the same thing

in the last road to the draft, Twoomey sounded as if clubs had gone a bit cold on Goddard from his form this year
but pretty much had the same idea that Carlton might rate him at their pick, I'm looking forward to see who he thinks we'll take
won't be surprised if he throws up Duggan as a possibility

maybe instead of talking about the players we likely will draft, maybe we should rule out the type of players we won't?

 

[BRWB]

its mostly been me and Wizard, I even said to send messages when we found new stuff because we didn't want to clog the draft thread or double post the same thing

in the last road to the draft, Twoomey sounded as if clubs had gone a bit cold on Goddard from his form this year
but pretty much had the same idea that Carlton might rate him at their pick, I'm looking forward to see who he thinks we'll take
won't be surprised if he throws up Duggan as a possibility

maybe instead of talking about the players we likely will draft, maybe we should rule out the type of players we won't?

Goddard worries me in that it is said he's gone missing in big games. Doesn't appeal.

I am interested in why people think Gold Coast would trade two picks for our 1 in what is appearing to be a fairly even year according to watchers, I don't see why they would.

I also wouldn't write off us getting Pick 3 just yet. If we lose to the Dees (and I think we will), I can only see us winning one more game against the Saints until our last game against GWS. By no means a lock. And if pans out as above, with Pick 3 at stake, selection and tactics for that game from both clubs will be interesting...

I am assuming that if Bris and Saints are bottom two then McCartin and Wright are gone. Who would be next for us if we had 3? Durdin?

 

[Dav1d]

Goddard worries me in that it is said he's gone missing in big games. Doesn't appeal.

I am interested in why people think Gold Coast would trade two picks for our 1 in what is appearing to be a fairly even year according to watchers, I don't see why they would.

I also wouldn't write off us getting Pick 3 just yet. If we lose to the Dees (and I think we will), I can only see us winning one more game against the Saints until our last game against GWS. By no means a lock. And if pans out as above, with Pick 3 at stake, selection and tactics for that game from both clubs will be interesting...

I am assuming that if Bris and Saints are bottom two then McCartin and Wright are gone. Who would be next for us if we had 3? Durdin?

yeah probably Durdin, bigger fan of him then Goddard

and Gold Coast probably won't trade their picks, unless there was a player they absolutely had to have

I think it'd kill me though if we did trade a pick 3 for two picks and Wright or McCartin would have got to us

I wouldn't mind Durdin/Viojo-Rainbow first two picks; think that would be a realistic chance of happening

I'd probably offer our first pick and second pick for GCs two picks and GCs second round pick, so they get a pick upgrade in both rounds
but we still get 3 picks, hopefully Cordy wouldn't get nominated before that pick; take the 3 picks then Cordy then only keep a live pick for later if there were any potential steals and then rookie upgrade

doubt it'll happen though, but a KPP/HBF(outside mid)/Cordy/best available mid or KPP; I'd be happy with that

best KPPs to likely get to us would be(no particular order): Durdin, Lever, Goddard, McKenzie, Fox, Keitel, Coughlan, Neilson, Marchbank, McLaren
think Brisbane will take Hammelman, but hope we nominate him to; then any KPPs from last year that have gone on and improved from last year but missed out - Conlon (hear he has had another injury setback though)

best HBFs/outside mids to likely get to us: Ellis, DeGoey, Nelson, Laverde, Duggan, Pickett, Weller, Blakely, Cunico, Wigg, Capiron

sure I've probably forgot some or a couple

but if we get two of those + Cordy should be an alright draft, although you know who I am rooting for

 

[_M_16_]

Not exactly the best write ups about Durdin and Goddard on that article. Any reason both are having a poor championships?

On a side note, I think Melbourne came out recently and said the Midfield will be their main focus ahead. So they will likely draft a midfielder early if anything is to go by

 

[TempleKelvington]

http://boundforglorynews.com/jourdan-canils-phantom-draft/

ah, bit different that mock draft

rated Menadue in the first round; interesting


http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-06-26/de-goeys-hard-lesson

also a bit on De Goey

Gee for a guy who thinks Goddard is a top 4 pick his write up is pretty poor on him lol. I have not seen anything of Goddard but on that write up he's not what we want to draft.

 

[Dav1d]

Not exactly the best write ups about Durdin and Goddard on that article. Any reason both are having a poor championships?

On a side note, I think Melbourne came out recently and said the Midfield will be their main focus ahead. So they will likely draft a midfielder early if anything is to go by

oooo interesting

...I should be sleeping, ready for the game tomorrow; but can't sleep..

I think Goddard/Durdin may have came off injuries; both look better as defenders

I believe some of the comparisons are unfair though on those write ups