List Mgmt. 2017 Draft Prospects

[goodcop badcop]

Hypothetically, say we get pick 11 in a potential Stringer deal. At 9 and 11, who do you take?

Also, I'm intrigued by Lochie O'Brien. Can anybody give me a little bit more information?

O'Brien I think he was a state junior 400m champion if I remember correctly. So he's got a good mix of pace and endurance. He's a good user and gets some nice penetration with his kicking so he can be quite damaging. His handball work is good too, has good vision. And he's quite good in the air. He's had quite a poor year though. Been very up and down. Has had a few injury issues which may have affected him, but his inside game is still a problem. Just 7 of his possessions were contested out of a possible 46 at the champs which says a lot. But to be fair the last game I saw him play, his contested game was much better. So I'm pretty interested to see what he does in the last game of the season.

Either way I'm probably still leaning towards Richards over him if we want an outside mid (assuming Coffield is gone). Richard's inside game is a lot better, he actually has the potential to play as a onballer unlike O'Brien who will be a flanker only. Just his endurance needs some work.

Spoke to Lloyd Meek again today, he said a lot of the skills tests have been scrapped for the combine this year. Guess the beep test wasn't the only casualty.

I'm actually surprised they didn't scrap them sooner. A recruiter I knew (that's now retired) said they never even bothered looking at the kicking and goal kicking tests. That was about 5 years ago now.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

O'Brien I think he was a state junior 400m champion if I remember correctly. So he's got a good mix of pace and endurance. He's a good user and gets some nice penetration with his kicking so he can be quite damaging. His handball work is good too, has good vision. And he's quite good in the air. He's had quite a poor year though. Been very up and down. Has had a few injury issues which may have affected him, but his inside game is still a problem. Just 7 of his possessions were contested out of a possible 46 at the champs which says a lot. But to be fair the last game I saw him play, his contested game was much better. So I'm pretty interested to see what he does in the last game of the season.

Either way I'm probably still leaning towards Richards over him if we want an outside mid (assuming Coffield is gone). Richard's inside game is a lot better, he actually has the potential to play as a onballer unlike O'Brien who will be a flanker only. Just his endurance needs some work.

Thanks.

Would taking both Coffield and Richards be overkill in your opinion? I like the sound of both. Darcy Fogarty, Jaidyn Stephenson, Joel Garner and Charlie Constable are the others that interest me around that mark. Yet to be sold on Brayshaw.

 

[Dav1d]

Thanks.

Would taking both Coffield and Richards be overkill in your opinion? I like the sound of both. Darcy Fogarty, Jaidyn Stephenson, Joel Garner and Charlie Constable are the others that interest me around that mark. Yet to be sold on Brayshaw.

I know Gollo doesn't rate Fogarty

But he was too good last year and if he was in last years draft, he would have gone first round. His talent hasn't just vanished & that's what made me come around more to Brander who probably goes a bit before our pick.

Gets criticized for his aggression but I find it no worse than other key position players.

Taking Coffield & Richards would be fine because Coffield would start off playing defense, that is where he has looked most comfortable. I don't think a lot of fans would be excited by the combination though, neither play key forward.

 

[giblj]

Spoke to Lloyd Meek again today, he said a lot of the skills tests have been scrapped for the combine this year. Guess the beep test wasn't the only casualty.

Clean hands test (handballing) gone, repeat sprints gone, 3km time trial changed to 2km, and the beep test replaced by a different similar sort of thing

 

[goodcop badcop]

Thanks.

Would taking both Coffield and Richards be overkill in your opinion? I like the sound of both. Darcy Fogarty, Jaidyn Stephenson, Joel Garner and Charlie Constable are the others that interest me around that mark. Yet to be sold on Brayshaw.

I don't think you can ever have enough skilled users in your team, but I guess a mix would be better.

I'm probably hoping for Fogarty at this stage with Stephenson, Brander and Coffield closely followed behind him. I like Richards, Naughton and Brayshaw as well. Still very much unsure though, Balta could be tempting too.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I know Gollo doesn't rate Fogarty

But he was too good last year and if he was in last years draft, he would have gone first round. His talent hasn't just vanished & that's what made me come around more to Brander who probably goes a bit before our pick.

Gets criticized for his aggression but I find it no worse than other key position players.

Taking Coffield & Richards would be fine because Coffield would start off playing defense, that is where he has looked most comfortable. I don't think a lot of fans would be excited by the combination though, neither play key forward.

Re: Fogarty, has Dalrymple ever drafted a player who had a comparatively poor final junior year in the first couple of rounds? Genuinely curious.

I don't know a lot about the key forwards.

I don't think you can ever have enough skilled users in your team, but I guess a mix would be better.

I'm probably hoping for Fogarty at this stage with Stephenson, Brander and Coffield closely followed behind him. I like Richards, Naughton and Brayshaw as well. Still very much unsure though, Balta could be tempting too.

I'm sort of torn because I like the goal sense of the likes of Fogarty and Stephenson, but gee the Richards + Coffield combination would make us a completely different team if they stepped up to the level.

What appeals most with Brander and Naughton? Don't know a lot about Balta either outside of him being very raw. I'm not sure about the fit of Brayshaw - have read in a few places that he's a pure mid with very limited ability in other positions.

 

[Dav1d]

Re: Fogarty, has Dalrymple ever drafted a player who had a comparatively poor final junior year in the first couple of rounds? Genuinely curious.

I don't know a lot about the key forwards.



I'm sort of torn because I like the goal sense of the likes of Fogarty and Stephenson, but gee the Richards + Coffield combination would make us a completely different team if they stepped up to the level.

What appeals most with Brander and Naughton? Don't know a lot about Balta either outside of him being very raw. I'm not sure about the fit of Brayshaw - have read in a few places that he's a pure mid with very limited ability in other positions.

Well since you mention it...

Stringer didn't have as good of a year (at least not as consistent) obviously returning from the broken leg. Fogarty has played with his injury, I am not sure why he would do that. I am sure that he had his reasons.

 

[Wizard17]

Re: Fogarty, has Dalrymple ever drafted a player who had a comparatively poor final junior year in the first couple of rounds? Genuinely curious.

I don't know a lot about the key forwards.



I'm sort of torn because I like the goal sense of the likes of Fogarty and Stephenson, but gee the Richards + Coffield combination would make us a completely different team if they stepped up to the level.

What appeals most with Brander and Naughton? Don't know a lot about Balta either outside of him being very raw. I'm not sure about the fit of Brayshaw - have read in a few places that he's a pure mid with very limited ability in other positions.

The thing that Brayshaw has is that he has a burst of pace from the contest that a lot of our midfielders don't. It is part of the reason why we have gotten rounded up a bit too easily in the contest this year. We rely too much on Bont to burst out of contests and create some open play for us.

This is also why I like Zac Bailey.

He also has the high endurance factor so he doesn't need to rest as often as some would si he doesn't really need that second position. That being said he does move into the right spots as a forward.

As for Naughton his appeal is his intercept marking. His foot skills need lots of work though, looks really ungainly.

 

[giblj]

I haven't watched much u18s this year compared to previous so it's a pretty uninformed opinion but at the moment I'm liking the idea of Brayshaw for our first pick

 

[goodcop badcop]

Re: Fogarty, has Dalrymple ever drafted a player who had a comparatively poor final junior year in the first couple of rounds? Genuinely curious.

I don't know a lot about the key forwards.

I'm sort of torn because I like the goal sense of the likes of Fogarty and Stephenson, but gee the Richards + Coffield combination would make us a completely different team if they stepped up to the level.

What appeals most with Brander and Naughton? Don't know a lot about Balta either outside of him being very raw. I'm not sure about the fit of Brayshaw - have read in a few places that he's a pure mid with very limited ability in other positions.

Naughton is a good one on one defender that has the athleticism to keep up with the best key forwards. That's something we could do with IMO. Adams may move forward and he can get towelled up against some of the better key forwards anyway (Buddy, Waite, Moore). Collins and Roberts are a bit too slow. Cordy doesn't appear to have the size to play against the best. And Young isn't really a natural one on one defender, zones off a lot. But there's probably other areas we need to address first, we are not too bad for tall defenders really.

Brander has all the tools to become a very good 2nd tall fwd pushing up the ground. He has very good foot skills as well, so you'd want him delivering the ball inside 50. If that doesn't work out, he will be a very good intercept marking defender IMO. He reads the play superbly and has the athleticism to play on different sorts.

Re Brayshaw I have the same issue with him. He's done ok as a forward, without really setting the world on fire. The thing that I don't really like about him is he's not a good overhead mark, so I don't think he'll ever be a world beater up forward or even down back. He's got a level 15 beep, so I guess he should be able to spend a lot of time in the midfield. You would wish he was a bit taller and more powerfully built as well. Then I think he would be able to use his burst speed to break through stoppages a lot more. I guess that's what separates him from the top bracket in this year's draft. Anyway, I still like him and won't be disappointed if we end up with him. I think there's others that would suit us a bit more though and also have a bit more potential.

Dunkley had a poor year btw. I had Dunkley pegged as a late 3rd rounder because the games I saw of him were pretty bad.

 

[Gollo]

I know Gollo doesn't rate Fogarty

But he was too good last year and if he was in last years draft, he would have gone first round. His talent hasn't just vanished & that's what made me come around more to Brander who probably goes a bit before our pick.

Gets criticized for his aggression but I find it no worse than other key position players.

Taking Coffield & Richards would be fine because Coffield would start off playing defense, that is where he has looked most comfortable. I don't think a lot of fans would be excited by the combination though, neither play key forward.

I would much prefer Brander - not only has he shown far more this year (despite performing weaker than expected), but I can see far more improvement in him than Fogarty. I didn't see a heap of Fogarty last year, which is probably a decent factor in my rating of him, but I take a very, very cautious approach to anyone who performs considerably weaker in their draft year. I wasn't too keen on Dunkley back in 2015. With KPPs, so long as they show good production in spurts throughout their U17/U18s and have good athleticism you can reasonably assume that they have good development left in them. With someone like Fogarty, who has no clear best position and isn't an exceptional athlete (from what I've seen), at his already-filled out size there is a distinct possibility that he will not develop much at all. If he has not found a way to show consistent production in a particular role yet, I struggle to see how he will make one his own in the AFL.

Back to some more general points, I reckon Richards is a bit of a stretch at 11 given how much time he missed this year. I think he's got good talent but I wonder whether his ceiling extends beyond that of a high-level rebounding defender. Would be happy if we took him having missed out on Coffield, but if we already have Coffield the club would have to be absolutely certain that someone from that wing/defensive rotation could excel up forward. Not sure about Naughton - his one-on-one capacity seems a bit limited. Looked much more comfortable as an attacking, intercept-marking defender, but didn't seem overly close-checking. Would much rather we look for KPDs later on in the draft or into the rookie draft. I like Brayshaw's reliability - I'm quite confident that he will be reliable rotating up forward and have no qualms about his ability to step up to the AFL level in the midfield. I do like his outside capacity and athleticism, and he has the best hands in the draft. Should we miss out on Stephenson, Cerra and Coffield, Brayshaw and Brander would be the two I think we'd be gunning for. One of those two with Richards and I'd be happy. Another option at 11 possibly would be Hunter Clark. His U18 Champs were underwhelming, but I'm putting that down to coaching being uncertain about his best position. His production in the back end of the TAC Cup has been excellent and seems to be showing real inside capacity. His combination of athleticism and contested ball-winning is quite enticing to improve the mobility of our midfield.

 

[Gollo]

I'm still praying for Coffield. Hoping clubs reach for Fogarty, Brander, Stephenson and possibly Balta if he rises. If we can use pick 9 to pick up the best ball user in the draft with elite speed, I'm sure no one will be complaining. Coffield and Brayshaw would be the absolute dream, and I'm starting to come around to Coffield and Richards.

B: Wood - Adams - Morris
HB: Coffield - Cordy - Biggs
W: Hunter - Macrae - Richards/Brayshaw
HF: Dale - Bontempelli - JJ
F: Dahlhaus - Boyd - Crozier
R: Roughead - McLean - Liberatore
I: Wallis - Daniel - two of Williams/Dunkley/Young/Lipinski/Picken/Jong/Suckling/Smith/Dickson/Redpath

Very speculative, but one/two years from now that would be looking pretty nice (minus Morris, Picken, Dickson). That's also without Miers.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Thanks all. I'm coming around to the idea of Brander but I'll watch some footage of all of these lads when I get a chance.

 

[Dav1d]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-09-28/cal-twomeys-phantom-form-guide-september-edition

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-09-28/cal-twomeys-phantom-form-guide-september-edition

No Garner in top 25?

 

[Dav1d]

No Garner in top 25?

Nope, I didn't notice that.

Good spot. Think I said earlier that I hope he gets to our second, his decisions by foot aren't the best but he is very impressive otherwise.

A little surprised he doesn't have Crossley in there, I think a club will put on a bid later. Probably GWS.

 

[goodcop badcop]

The more I see of Garner, the less interested I am in him. If his ball use was a bit better, I'd like him a bit more.

Same goes for Petruccelle and Worpel.

 

[goodcop badcop]

A little surprised he doesn't have Crossley in there, I think a club will put on a bid later. Probably GWS.

Do you rate Crossley higher then Hayes as a pure ruckman?

 

[Dav1d]

Do you rate Crossley higher then Hayes as a pure ruckman?

I think Hayes best position is in the ruck & he would likely have greater hit outs one on one against Crossley but Hayes moves around so slowly & he doesn't use his height enough to his advantage in marking contests for my liking.

 

[Gollo]

I don't get it with Nathan Murphy. Honestly, every description I read of him says that he has good skills, pretty clean, can play as a bit-part forward or defender and is relatively unperturbed at high levels. Meanwhile, I've yet to see or read anything suggesting he's anything more than an average athlete, and one whose production is nothing to write home about while not showing much goal sense or one-on-one defensive ability. His TAC Cup GF performance was pretty ordinary as well. If he weren't a high-level cricketer, I'm confident he wouldn't be being looked at nearly as closely as he currently is.

This is Cal Twomey's assessment:
Murphy, a talented cricketer who represented Victoria at junior level, can be played as a half-forward or half-back, is a nice kick and reader of the play, and also a handy mark. He's a natural footballer who took the eye of scouts first at Brighton Grammar at school level.

That's simply not top 30 worthy. You don't make it big at AFL level being a "nice kick" and a "handy mark". I'll admit I haven't seen or heard anything of his school footy form, which I assume was quite impressive, but he needed to show a lot more at a higher level to convince me.

 

[Igloo]

In my extensive research of this years draft crop which is limited to that TAC cup GF, Garner didn't impress me very much. He looked just ok.

 

[Dav1d]

In my extensive research of this years draft crop which is limited to that TAC cup GF, Garner didn't impress me very much. He looked just ok.

Different Garner

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Yeah Igloo, Jesus. Sort your shit out.

 

[goodcop badcop]

I don't get it with Nathan Murphy. Honestly, every description I read of him says that he has good skills, pretty clean, can play as a bit-part forward or defender and is relatively unperturbed at high levels. Meanwhile, I've yet to see or read anything suggesting he's anything more than an average athlete, and one whose production is nothing to write home about while not showing much goal sense or one-on-one defensive ability. His TAC Cup GF performance was pretty ordinary as well. If he weren't a high-level cricketer, I'm confident he wouldn't be being looked at nearly as closely as he currently is.

This is Cal Twomey's assessment:
Murphy, a talented cricketer who represented Victoria at junior level, can be played as a half-forward or half-back, is a nice kick and reader of the play, and also a handy mark. He's a natural footballer who took the eye of scouts first at Brighton Grammar at school level.

That's simply not top 30 worthy. You don't make it big at AFL level being a "nice kick" and a "handy mark". I'll admit I haven't seen or heard anything of his school footy form, which I assume was quite impressive, but he needed to show a lot more at a higher level to convince me.

He shouldn't have played in the grand final, I don't think he was moving well. I understand why you don't rate him if that's the only game you've seen.

He's more then just a nice kick & mark IMO. He has some scope to move up in the midfield, I'm not totally convinced he can, but it's possible. He does move well in traffic and I think he would test well for agility. Seems to have good vision as well. I think he kicked a lot of goals at school footy apparently with one 7 goal haul. He never played much forward in the TAC on what I saw though, for what ever reason he was mostly used as a backman and I thought his one on one work defensively was quite good then. He did play 1 qtr at half forward and he was quite exceptional delivering the ball inside forward 50. I remember he had 3 direct score involvements in the qtr, then he was moved.

 

[Gollo]

He shouldn't have played in the grand final, I don't think he was moving well. I understand why you don't rate him if that's the only game you've seen.

He's more then just a nice kick & mark IMO. He has some scope to move up in the midfield, I'm not totally convinced he can, but it's possible. He does move well in traffic and I think he would test well for agility. Seems to have good vision as well. I think he kicked a lot of goals at school footy apparently with one 7 goal haul. He never played much forward in the TAC on what I saw though, for what ever reason he was mostly used as a backman and I thought his one on one work defensively was quite good then. He did play 1 qtr at half forward and he was quite exceptional delivering the ball inside forward 50. I remember he had 3 direct score involvements in the qtr, then he was moved.

The Grand Final was the only full game of his I've watched but I have seen some other vision of him. I'll take your word for it, I felt like there had to at least be a little more to his value. Still, it just doesn't sound convincing enough at all to justify a top 30 selection in my opinion. Being a non-settled half-forward/half-back type without any really strong athletic traits or excellent production doesn't fill me with confidence. With size and natural football ability, as Twomey puts it, he may do okay in an AFL environment, but I struggle to envision a situation in which he could really become a high-level footballer.