Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[Iamcarlton]

Article in the sun about McGovern being dropped and not available for selection until he meets fitness standards. Apparently undertaking a training block with Russell

About f*n time really

Yeah I didn't buy the managed either and not sure how just 2 weeks training gets your fitness up to speed when a preseason couldn't .
Back through the seconds for mine if he returns this year .

 

[Soapy V]

Article in the sun about McGovern being dropped and not available for selection until he meets fitness standards. Apparently undertaking a training block with Russell

About f*n time really

Been going on for a while. Players not happy and neither was Russell

 

[HARKER]

Brandon Ellis is s**t, why all the love?
Hardwick has only ever used him as a second fiddle if his mainstays aren’t fit.
I don’t rate him at all.
His decision making and ball use are questionable at best.

Because he's free?

Ellis is a hot and cold player and one that many Richmond supporters would sooner not have in their main team, should all be fit and available.
Can't see him being seriously hunted by us, but who knows?

 

[cfc4life]

We need a small forward. Don't kid yourselves. It is not the cherry on top. It is vital for any serious tilt at the flag.

 

[bigm386]

Been going on for a while. Players not happy and neither was Russell

Not surprised they would be annoyed, McGovern cannot run out games and has various injuries most games which a contributing factor would be his weight.

As funny as it was it was disappointing to hear the jokes around the brackets nickname, the days of Lance Whitnall smashing 3 footlongs and spewing up behind trees during time trials are well and truly gone. Club needs to set standards and this has been done which is fantastic. Wish it came sooner.

Big tick for Teague knowing he is close with McGovern and made the hard call.

 

[bigm386]

Yeah I didn't buy the managed either and not sure how just 2 weeks training gets your fitness up to speed when a preseason couldn't .
Back through the seconds for mine if he returns this year .

I wouldn't expect to see him back this year personally. I would expect the club to get him to peak fitness by the last round and basically say this is what you need to come back as at the start of preseason.

 

[Iamcarlton]

I wouldn't expect to see him back this year personally. I would expect the club to get him to peak fitness by the last round and basically say this is what you need to come back as at the start of preseason.

Totally agree would be a good opportunity to trial other players for the rest of the season but somehow think he'll be back in the senior side without coming back through the reserves soon enough .

 

[Soapy V]

I wouldn't expect to see him back this year personally. I would expect the club to get him to peak fitness by the last round and basically say this is what you need to come back as at the start of preseason.

I think it's more. Get to a standard to play later in the year and then need to improve more over the pre season. 6-7 weeks isn't enough

 

[chelseacarlton]

Cunningham (swans)

Yes, at least he won’t have Cas dragging his slow arse over the boundary to seal the game!

 

[Blue__Balls]

Want a talented young forward with goal sense and great defensive work then we should try and get Ned McHenry from the Crows. I rated him highly in last years gun draft and apparently doing well at SANFL level this year. Vic boy

These are the acquisitions I think we'll see less of.

Adelaide drafts McHenry, pumps two years of development into him, with him learning from Eddie Betts at training...then just as Betts calls time on his career Carlton swoop to try and nab McHenry for themselves. Adelaide demand plenty, and Carlton probably end up coughing up overs for a player who still isn't proven at AFL level. Trading for a player 2 years into their career seems to me to be the worst time to pick them up - their club doesn't want to let them go and expects big compensation, and the player is still a fairly unknown quantity - the timing is poor for the destination club.

Either trade for a 100% proven player like Papley, or go to the draft and grab the next McHenry for ourselves.

 

[footyfan1978]

Want a talented young forward with goal sense and great defensive work then we should try and get Ned McHenry from the Crows. I rated him highly in last years gun draft and apparently doing well at SANFL level this year. Vic boy

Sam Walsh likes this.
Those two got on well as mates.

 

[cfc4life]

Who in our forward line under 190cm is a threat? Cuningham potentially but he can't get on the park. A Sam Gray or Shai Bolton type is ideal.

 

[Soapy V]

These are the acquisitions I think we'll see less of.

Adelaide drafts McHenry, pumps two years of development into him, with him learning from Eddie Betts at training...then just as Betts calls time on his career Carlton swoop to try and nab McHenry for themselves. Adelaide demand plenty, and Carlton probably end up coughing up overs for a player who still isn't proven at AFL level. Trading for a player 2 years into their career seems to me to be the worst time to pick them up - their club doesn't want to let them go and expects big compensation, and the player is still a fairly unknown quantity - the timing is poor for the destination club.

Either trade for a 100% proven player like Papley, or go to the draft and grab the next McHenry for ourselves.

They have Stengle, McAdam, Murphy as well. I don't know his status (he's just someone I rate) but if he says he's coming home a deal would be done

 

[footyfan1978]

McGovern trade perplexed me at time and still a weird one for mine. I actually do not mind his skills, but just not get enough of it and always concerned me as the obvious 3rd tall for us in forward line I have seen as Jack. Maybe it has been a blessing in disguise anyway as has pushed Jack out for permanent forward to midfield and forward at any moment of game. But weeks back when Jack was left out and McGovern still in, really pissed me off as made no sense to me.

Anyway, finally last week the right call was made and we ended up with a team not too tall for once. By accident mind you, as Goddard got injured as another tall back we probably did not need v Swans. It is no surprise we looked the most dangerous we have on the spread as we had more agile team collectively than most weeks this season. Will only be enhanced more when get Cuningham back.

Hopefully the tough love does McGovern some good but still he a weird fit on our list when had enough tall forwards already. Least it is an area we got plenty of depth for next season I guess.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Is it the part where he weaves through traffic and then hits a target? It annoys me too.

The limited occasions where he does this doesn't bother me....it's every other time where he does all the hard work in traffic and then pops a high hospital floater which gets intercepted.

 

[Blue and Blue]

The limited occasions where he does this doesn't bother me....it's every other time where he does all the hard work in traffic and then pops a high hospital floater which gets intercepted.

You must be watching a different Samo to me mate.
He has fantastic disposal. And great vision.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Which players on our list have trade value? Positions we have in surplus?

I'd say Liam Jones is tradeable for the right return (Levi was better in that role while Liam was out, and Goddard showed good signs before injury).

I'd also trade SPS if we could get a reasonable player in return. Something in the way he plays just doesn't sit with me....he's had a few ripper games, just doesn't do it consistently.

Liam Jones has just signed a three year extension - the club isn't trading him out 2 months later.

Also - third year midfielder has inconsistent performances...shocking. The whole team has been inconsistent, Samo is the kind of player who takes you from finalist to grand finalist, absolute cream and hard to find.

 

[Soapy V]

McGovern trade perplexed me at time and still a weird one for mine. I actually do not mind his skills, but just not get enough of it and always concerned me as the obvious 3rd tall for us in forward line I have seen as Jack. Maybe it has been a blessing in disguise anyway as has pushed Jack out for permanent forward to midfield and forward at any moment of game. But weeks back when Jack was left out and McGovern still in, really pi**ed me off as made no sense to me.

Anyway, finally last week the right call was made and we ended up with a team not too tall for once. By accident mind you, as Goddard got injured as another tall back we probably did not need v Swans. It is no surprise we looked the most dangerous we have on the spread as we had more agile team collectively than most weeks this season. Will only be enhanced more when get Cuningham back.

Hopefully the tough love does McGovern some good but still he a weird fit on our list when had enough tall forwards already. Least it is an area we got plenty of depth for next season I guess.

I still believe he will end up as a defender. Will also help him be more consistent. IMO just suits him

 

[Soapy V]

You must be watching a different Samo to me mate.
He has fantastic disposal. And great vision.

Samo has improved this year and will keep getting better. When he puts it all together watch out.

 

[Blue__Balls]

They have Stengle, McAdam, Murphy as well. I don't know his status (he's just someone I rate) but if he says he's coming home a deal would be done

Don't disagree - just highlighting that the timing favours Adelaide far more than us.

It'd be like us getting a request to trade Tom De Koning now. We want him, we've worked hard to develop his body and his game, and then he wants out. Naturally, we want overs, because losing him sets our plans for the near future back. But for the club who want him...they're still picking up a player with 2 AFL games to his name, who displays plenty of potential but is far from a sure thing.

We fall in love with certain players in their draft years. McHenry was one I know a lot of people here were really keen on. Reckon we'd find someone similar in the draft for less outlay, with just as much upside. Or for the price Adelaide would demand for their prize first round draftee, we could probably get a more mature, more proven player like Papley or Martin or Tipungwuti.

Rate McHenry, just think the timing is less than ideal. If you overlayed a couple of bell curves for "cost to acquire" and "proven ability", 2020 represents the period of greatest risk for us.

 

[footyfan1978]

I still believe he will end up as a defender. Will also help him be more consistent. IMO just suits him

That has always been my hope since we got him even though I was not gun ho for the trade itself.

If he can be a swingman of the sorts from back to forwards he will be of more value to our list.

The list two years on looks something like this in terms of talls.

Harry Mckay and Charlie Curnow the two main key forwards.
Jack Silvagni third tall forward and rotate through midfield when needed.

Kreuzer still number one ruck. De Konning hopefully his understudy

Weitering number one key defender.
Liam Jones veteran key defender. Marchbank to play key defence when needed.
Plowman regular third tall defender and sometimes out of side depending on match ups from week to week.

McGovern swingman and back up for key defence or key forward if one or two out.

Ben Silvagni groomed to take over from Jones or become a swingman himself.

Kerr hopefully still on list as back up key forward. He may want to trade to another club if he plays too well for reserves next year.

Macreadie probably trade by then as surplus to needs.
Casboult retired or already traded to another club

Phillps who knows if still on list as journeyman 3rd ruck back up that accepts he only plays when main rucks down and does his thing in VFL most weekends.

Lobbe retired and probably some young ruck added to list via free agency, de-listed free agency or minor trade.


Goddard maybe still listed and second back up key defender

 

[Soapy V]

That has always been my hope since we got him even though I was not gun ho for the trade itself.

If he can be a swingman of the sorts from back to forwards he will be of more value to our list.

The list two years on looks something like this in terms of talls.

Harry Mckay and Charlie Curnow the two main key forwards.
Jack Silvagni third tall forward and rotate through midfield when needed.

Kreuzer still number one ruck. De Konning hopefully his understudy

Weitering number one key defender.
Liam Jones veteran key defender. Marchbank to play key defence when needed.
Plowman regular third tall defender and sometimes out of side depending on match ups from week to week.

McGovern swingman and back up for key defence or key forward if one or two out.

Ben Silvagni groomed to take over from Jones or become a swingman himself.

Kerr hopefully still on list as back up key forward. He may want to trade to another club if he plays too well for reserves next year.

Macreadie probably trade by then as surplus to needs.
Casboult retired or already traded to another club

Phillps who knows if still on list as journeyman 3rd ruck back up that accepts he only plays when main rucks down and does his thing in VFL most weekends.

Lobbe retired and probably some young ruck added to list via free agency, de-listed free agency or minor trade.


Goddard maybe still listed and second back up key defender

Agree. We have a lot of tall talents at both ends. It's great. There is also Finbar on our list and we may get Manton.

I also think our strength will be our midfield and we are better when we play a more mobile side. All positive

PS Goddard has been very good and I expect him to get better and better

 

[slashin_velvet]

Liam Jones has just signed a three year extension - the club isn't trading him out 2 months later.

Also - third year midfielder has inconsistent performances...shocking. The whole team has been inconsistent, Samo is the kind of player who takes you from finalist to grand finalist, absolute cream and hard to find.

Good point on Jones resigning. He's a good player, so no doubt worth retaining.

To be clear, I'm not talking about delisting SPS - I specifically listed two players who I think other teams would want, but who also could be expendable. Something in the way Samo plays doesn't convince me he's the difference in a grand final. He fluffs it way too often...has the potential to be much more damaging, and has only really delivered a couple times.

 

[bigm386]

McGovern trade perplexed me at time and still a weird one for mine. I actually do not mind his skills, but just not get enough of it and always concerned me as the obvious 3rd tall for us in forward line I have seen as Jack. Maybe it has been a blessing in disguise anyway as has pushed Jack out for permanent forward to midfield and forward at any moment of game. But weeks back when Jack was left out and McGovern still in, really pi**ed me off as made no sense to me.

Anyway, finally last week the right call was made and we ended up with a team not too tall for once. By accident mind you, as Goddard got injured as another tall back we probably did not need v Swans. It is no surprise we looked the most dangerous we have on the spread as we had more agile team collectively than most weeks this season. Will only be enhanced more when get Cuningham back.

Hopefully the tough love does McGovern some good but still he a weird fit on our list when had enough tall forwards already. Least it is an area we got plenty of depth for next season I guess.

Agree it didn't make sense at the time but has actually looked worse with the form of Casboult and the early form of Kerr in the reserves. We have a huge amount of KPP talent at the moment both forward and back so using picks to secure another one when we are desperate for a small forward and even a long term ruck prospect made little sense at the time and worse since.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Good point on Jones resigning. He's a good player, so no doubt worth retaining.

To be clear, I'm not talking about delisting SPS - I specifically listed two players who I think other teams would want, but who also could be expendable. Something in the way Samo plays doesn't convince me he's the difference in a grand final. He fluffs it way too often...has the potential to be much more damaging, and has only really delivered a couple times.

Yeah, and I disagree completely on SPS. He's not a Cripps who can put them team on his back and carry them to victory. He makes other players better with his vision and ball use, but he also needs his teammates to work hard to provide him options, and he needs a game plan that allows him to use his skills.

It's no surprise he looks better when the team looks better. That's true of the majority of players in the competition though. No doubt in my mind that a player of his ilk could well prove to be the difference between being a good side and a great one.