Unofficial Preview 2020 Disenchantment

[Janus]

100% agree with that. Its just that you dont top up for a flag by moving on your depth - those guys are critical during a long season. You move on your depth when your list isn't good enough. We clearly knew our list wasn't good enough.

Exactly. Our best 22 was great, our depth was poor. That's why we only got a half eaten packet of chips for most of our players. No one rated their development because they weren't pushing out our senior players at all.

The learner doesn't become the master by waiting for the master to retire or to fade away in a loss of form. He becomes the master by being better than the master at his best. That's how you go from being a side that just makes finals to a genuine top four side and a premiership contender.

 

[RossFC]

Now our depth is great, but our best 22 is a lie. A lot of the guys in the side shouldn't be in the team.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Except for Wingard, Impey and Polec, all of those players are still here, aren't they? Clurey, Byrne-Jones, Amon and Houston had stellar years this year and played every game they were available.

In 2017 we believed the pendulum had enough momentum to push us over the top, which is why we went after Watts, Motlop and Rockliff. The reality was that in 2017, we had almost reached the pinnacle - we reached it at the bye of 2018 and started the trajectory back down. There's a few reasons for this...one of which was losing Impey and Trengove, two players which got the best out of Wingard (who wanted to leave as soon as those guys were gone). Trengove was also the connecting force between the young players and the older players.

So the club said 'fu** this' and traded out assets for high draft picks to replace what was lost and re-establish a connection between the group, which reset the pendulum and started the swing again...only this time with more elite players added to the weight of the pendulum to give it more momentum.

I don't make excuses. Excuses are just a way of saying that it wasn't your fault when you don't want to change.

I look for reasons.

I said during the trade period that the trading of Wingard and Polec signalled a rebuild, at least a mini one. That we were aiming for 2022 onwards and not 2019. You told me (and the club told me) that they expected to be competing for a flag in 2019, and it was about sustained success.

I actually think both things are possible. I think our list could have absolutely won the flag this year given the calibre of the teams who will be duking it out in September while we watch on once again, AND I think we're probably positioned better for 2022 onwards than 2020.

So are we getting the best out of our list? If not, why not? What are the reasons?

My biggest concern for the future really is elite end talent. Which players do we have who will be competing for All Australian guernseys and even higher individual honours in 2022/23/24? Do we have enough to be successful in the post Boak and Gray era?

 

[Schulzenfest]

Now our depth is great, but our best 22 is a lie. A lot of the guys in the side shouldn't be in the team.

Well, at least two of those guys in the team who shouldn't be have asked for trades. Thankyou to Ryder and Sammy for saving Ken from himself.

 

[TeeKray]

Well, at least two of those guys in the team who shouldn't be have asked for trades. Thankyou to Ryder and Sammy for saving Ken from himself.

Not really. Both of those guys would've been told by Ken that their opportunities would be limited going forward and basically pushed into requesting trades.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Not really. Both of those guys would've been told by Ken that their opportunities would be limited going forward and basically pushed into requesting trades.

Yes. Ken Hinkley, the guy who has played Sam Gray for all but three games he's been fit and available for the past three seasons, who continued to play him for the whole last month of the season despite him kicking two goals in his last six games, told Sam Gray that his opportunities would be limited next year. Ken Hinkley, the guy who just about teared up when he had to drop Ryder, brought him back at the first opportunity, and then left him in the side for the rest of the season over both Scott Lycett and Peter Ladhams, told Paddy Ryder there'd be no opportunities for him next year. I'm sure that's exactly how it happened.

Much more likely that whoever was in charge of contract offers (Davies?) refused to budge on a one year deal for Ryder and lowballed Gray to the point where they had no choice but to look elsewhere to get the best deals for themselves. Ken Hinkley isn't in charge of contract extensions. If he was I'm sure Sam Gray and Paddy Ryder would've been locked in for the next couple of seasons months ago. And probably Broadbent too.

 

[RossFC]

Not really. Both of those guys would've been told by Ken that their opportunities would be limited going forward and basically pushed into requesting trades.

They were still both offered deals. If they are both not on the list then that gives Ladhams and 1 of Farrell/Cox/Woodcock more of a chance.

The only possible way I see him refusing to go with youth again is he goes with a short forward line and replaces Ryder with Ebert, and S.Gray with Motlop, and makes Dixon, Hoff or Howard a backup ruck.

 

[TeeKray]

Yes. Ken Hinkley, the guy who has played Sam Gray for all but three games he's been fit and available for the past three seasons, who continued to play him for the whole last month of the season despite him kicking two goals in his last six games, told Sam Gray that his opportunities would be limited next year. Ken Hinkley, the guy who just about teared up when he had to drop Ryder, brought him back at the first opportunity, and then left him in the side for the rest of the season over both Scott Lycett and Peter Ladhams, told Paddy Ryder there'd be no opportunities for him next year. I'm sure that's exactly how it happened.

Much more likely that whoever was in charge of contract offers (Davies?) refused to budge on a one year deal for Ryder and lowballed Gray to the point where they had no choice but to look elsewhere to get the best deals for themselves. Ken Hinkley isn't in charge of contract extensions. If he was I'm sure Sam Gray and Paddy Ryder would've been locked in for the next couple of seasons months ago. And probably Broadbent too.

So it was Chris Davies/Jason Cripps who saved Ken from himself, not Gray and Ryder?

 

[Schulzenfest]

So it was Chris Davies/Jason Cripps who saved Ken from himself, not Gray and Ryder?

If you want to argue semantics, we can call it a team effort. The important thing is we'll be better off going forward without Ryder and Gray and that Ken Hinkley is a s**t coach who's been saved from his own shitness by others.

 

[Andre]

If you want to argue semantics, we can call it a team effort. The important thing is we'll be better off going forward without Ryder and Gray and that Ken Hinkley is a s**t coach who's been saved from his own s**tness by others.

The irony that the list management team moving on (by trade, delisting or retirement) older players Ken wanted, thereby forcing Ken to play younger one's next year, will lead us to do better than if the old farts had stuck around. Giving a better chance of Ken making finals and triggering that extra year.