List Mgmt. 2021 draft pool.

[Lore]

 

[Vauclose]

That analysis by Draft Central is super lazy. I would argue with Rioli, Stack (assuming they both re-sign), Baker, Short and Ralphsmith able to play across the half backline that Sinn would be an absolute luxury.

I'm a bit concerned by a few of the views expressed previously in respect of the midfield quality. I'm of the view that Ross, Martyn and RCD have not shown that they are capable of being B+ quality footballers. Players don't just 'develop tanks' magically overnight or significantly improve their output. RCD has had three years in the system now for example and even at VFL level has only shown quality in fits and spurts let alone any increased ability to run out games since he was drafted. I'm willing to give Martyn the benefit of the doubt with time but Ross and RCD are incredibly unlikely to be part of our next premiership.

We have spent the last ten rounds being absolutely smashed in the middle in a game that is increasingly about clearance and less about turn over. We should be taking 3+ midfielders who have good disposal outside the contest and can find it inside, because right now it is a significant list deficiency.

Given the noise about extension of CCJ, a tall forward is of less concern with Riewoldt having finished 3rd in the Coleman this year and I think Miller/Nyon and Garthwaite should have an opportunity to settle into the defensive structure with Balta back before a call is made on a tall next year. It is also the sort of position where players can be found who are undervalued that can do a job (For example like Jordan Roughead at Collingwood having been picked up for cheap).

RCD is a tease. Shows attributes, but has profound deficiencies in his game. He lacks repeat efforts and is a bystander at stoppages if the opposition has the ball and are breaking away. He needs to model his game on Snake Baker. Sadly Ross and Martyn are a very poor version of Selwood.

 

[Dr Tigris]

RCD is a tease. Shows attributes, but has profound deficiencies in his game. He lacks repeat efforts and is a bystander at stoppages if the opposition has the ball and are breaking away. He needs to model his game on Snake Baker. Sadly Ross and Martyn are a very poor version of Selwood.

RCD needs to play. He has great attributes, but simply isn't fit enough and hasn't learnt to gut run. His timing at contests is also a bit off. When he gets it right he smashes the contest and gets the ball off. Relatively small improvements in his repeat effort ability and more significant improvements in knowing when to go, and where to go will lead to major improvements in his ability.

whether he is just an AFL player, or can be a good AFL player we don't know. But he has rare tools to work with.

 

[Tygrys]

If CCJ stays we really only have major issues with mids. Given this is a deep draft for mids then I'd say just go as hard as possible for high end mids, until about pick 20, then look for JVR or similar.

If we can trade in Green then our midfield going forward looks much better.

Anyhow, we have a great draft hand, let's use it to build for 5 - 10 years not now.

I don't have an issue with anything you've written except I'm wary of picking the best tall past pick 20 strategy especially if there is one that we really like. It's like the strategy that almost lost us Riewoldt when we traded picks with Fremantle for Polak. It's a dangerous game. It's so easy to imagine happening to us what happened to Collingwood with Shai Bolton, sweating halfway through the second round with only one pick to go, thinking you've got him and then being pipped at the post. The later pick you intend to use the more your fate rests in the hands of what other clubs intend to do.

Again I'm not talking about reaching, I'm just talking about gambling and losing. If there is a tall we really like we should go for it and not just hope that the phantom drafts prove right and he'll still be there come picks 26 or 28. Anyhow, as I read these posts, of who to select and who might be available at a certain pick and what a tough choice it is going to be, the more convinced I am that we should go hard in getting Footscray's first. Three picks in the first round most likely means most of our needs will be met and everyone will be happy.

 

[Dr Tigris]

I don't have an issue with anything you've written except I'm wary of picking the best tall past pick 20 strategy especially if there is one that we really like. It's like the strategy that almost lost us Riewoldt when we traded picks with Fremantle for Polak. It's a dangerous game. It's so easy to imagine happening to us what happened to Collingwood with Shai Bolton, sweating halfway through the second round with only one pick to go, thinking you've got him and then being pipped at the post. The later pick you intend to use the more your fate rests in the hands of what other clubs intend to do.

Again I'm not talking about reaching, I'm just talking about gambling and losing. If there is a tall we really like we should go for it and not just hope that the phantom drafts prove right and he'll still be there come picks 26 or 28. Anyhow, as I read these posts, of who to select and who might be available at a certain pick and what a tough choice it is going to be, the more convinced I am that we should go hard in getting Footscray's first. Three picks in the first round most likely means most of our needs will be met and everyone will be happy.

I'm not really talking about specifically targeting a player in the 20's. I'm talking about a strategy of focusing on quality where it is, and then spreading your aim as you hits the 20's. This year it is mids in the first 20 picks, roughly. And I reckon our midfield going forward is weak. Get 2 quality AFL mids in this draft and we have a strong midfield for the next 8 years. The midfield is the core of the team, and if we are strong there we can fill in other holes over time.

 

[juss]

26 + 28 is more points than pick 14.

Would Bulldogs make that trade? We'd hit the draft with 3 picks potentially inside the top 16

 

[Tygrys]

I'm not really talking about specifically targeting a player in the 20's. I'm talking about a strategy of focusing on quality where it is, and then spreading your aim as you hits the 20's. This year it is mids in the first 20 picks, roughly. And I reckon our midfield going forward is weak. Get 2 quality AFL mids in this draft and we have a strong midfield for the next 8 years. The midfield is the core of the team, and if we are strong there we can fill in other holes over time.

I know that's not what you were talking about and I'm not disputing anything you're saying. But we also need a replacement for Riewoldt, desperately in fact if CCJ decides to leave. Prioritising one need and then hoping that the chips fall your way for another which might be equally as important just makes me feel very uncomfortable. Again to me my post was more about how brilliant it would be to get Footscray's first but you are dead right about midfielders. Anyhow I just hope we move up the draft so we are in a position to take care of all our needs.

 

[tigerfan1961]

I don't have an issue with anything you've written except I'm wary of picking the best tall past pick 20 strategy especially if there is one that we really like. It's like the strategy that almost lost us Riewoldt when we traded picks with Fremantle for Polak. It's a dangerous game. It's so easy to imagine happening to us what happened to Collingwood with Shai Bolton, sweating halfway through the second round with only one pick to go, thinking you've got him and then being pipped at the post. The later pick you intend to use the more your fate rests in the hands of what other clubs intend to do.

Again I'm not talking about reaching, I'm just talking about gambling and losing. If there is a tall we really like we should go for it and not just hope that the phantom drafts prove right and he'll still be there come picks 26 or 28. Anyhow, as I read these posts, of who to select and who might be available at a certain pick and what a tough choice it is going to be, the more convinced I am that we should go hard in getting Footscray's first. Three picks in the first round most likely means most of our needs will be met and everyone will be happy.

I don’t think our recruiters will be looking at phantom drafts for guides as to where certain players will be, that’s ridiculous.! Maybe just your wording making me think that though
They do the scouting and rank them in the order they rate them, as I’m sure you’d realise. I have faith in Matt Clarke, Blair and their staff. Their planning is first rate, trust me

 

[Muddiemoose]

I don’t think our recruiters will be looking at phantom drafts for guides as to where certain players will be, that’s ridiculous.! Maybe just your wording making me think that though
They do the scouting and rank them in the order they rate them, as I’m sure you’d realise. I have faith in Matt Clarke, Blair and their staff. Their planning is first rate, trust me

Would love to spend some time inside the recruiting department
Apparently whiteboards full of basically every player available ranked with a run down

 

[Tygrys]

I don’t think our recruiters will be looking at phantom drafts for guides as to where certain players will be, that’s ridiculous.! Maybe just your wording making me think that though
They do the scouting and rank them in the order they rate them, as I’m sure you’d realise. I have faith in Matt Clarke, Blair and their staff. Their planning is first rate, trust me

Yeah it's more wording just to make a point. I know we are far better at recruiting now than in the days of Greg Miller and JON

 

[Tygrys]

26 + 28 is more points than pick 14.

Would Bulldogs make that trade? We'd hit the draft with 3 picks potentially inside the top 16

28 + 40 + 44 are more points still. Any draft picks we get for a Caddy or a Pickett or a Chol or a Ross (assuming they want to move or are moved on) we can add to the point tally. Let's get it done Tigers.

 

[Muddiemoose]

28 + 40 + 44 are more points still. Any draft picks we get for a Caddy or a Pickett or a Chol or a Ross (assuming they want to move or are moved on) we can add to the point tally. Let's get it done Tigers.

More point the better, if we are legitimate in making a play for the pick we need to make it worth the dogs while
If it’s only a couple of extra points that only gets them a slight improvement of late 4th round pick the doggies wouldn’t bother

 

[Morro]

28 + 40 + 44 are more points still. Any draft picks we get for a Caddy or a Pickett or a Chol or a Ross (assuming they want to move or are moved on) we can add to the point tally. Let's get it done Tigers.

They may want less picks but higher value as they may not have list spots to cater for a heap of late picks and I think the AFL jigged the rule to keep this system honest.

 

[Dr Tigris]

I know that's not what you were talking about and I'm not disputing anything you're saying. But we also need a replacement for Riewoldt, desperately in fact if CCJ decides to leave. Prioritising one need and then hoping that the chips fall your way for another which might be equally as important just makes me feel very uncomfortable. Again to me my post was more about how brilliant it would be to get Footscray's first but you are dead right about midfielders. Anyhow I just hope we move up the draft so we are in a position to take care of all our needs.

Agree. What we want is a top end KPF. This year we aren't getting it - as in there are no obvious top end KPFs in the draft (although someone might end up there over time). So don't try and get it. Only take JVR or similar as a KPF if they are there with our picks in the 20s.

That's my thoughts.

 

[Tygrys]

They may want less picks but higher value as they may not have list spots to cater for a heap of late picks and I think the AFL jigged the rule to keep this system honest.

I'd be surprised if that is true, unless there is some kind of limit that for example says you are only allowed to say use four picks or whatever as points to match a bid. I mean clubs regularly have late draft picks they don't use or trade in even fifth rounders etc, irrespective of how many spots they have available on their list, and with no intention of using but simply to help find a player a new home. Not saying it's not true, but first I've heard of it and when looking at grand scheme of things it would appear strange considering the autonomy clubs seem to enjoy in other trading aspects.

 

[Morro]

I'd be surprised if that is true, unless there is some kind of limit that for example says you are only allowed to say use four picks or whatever as points to match a bid. I mean clubs regularly have late draft picks they don't use or trade in even fifth rounders etc, irrespective of how many spots they have available on their list, and with no intention of using but simply to help find a player a new home. Not saying it's not true, but first I've heard of it and when looking at grand scheme of things it would appear strange considering the autonomy clubs seem to enjoy in other trading aspects.

I could have misinterpreted it but I was pretty sure until you replied haha

 

[TigerTime88]

26 + 28 is more points than pick 14.

Would Bulldogs make that trade? We'd hit the draft with 3 picks potentially inside the top 16

That would be a great result coming off a dynasty.

 

[lumpinee]

Agree. What we want is a top end KPF. This year we aren't getting it - as in there are no obvious top end KPFs in the draft (although someone might end up there over time). So don't try and get it. Only take JVR or similar as a KPF if they are there with our picks in the 20s.

That's my thoughts.

holding onto 1 of chol or ccj makes this important imo.agree with this as the 20's picked KPF gets time to develop whilst using either Chol or CCJ as that
permanent temporary 3rd tall.im for clearing out some players who arent going to reach the next level and those who wont be in our next flag
and imo in 13 months time i wouldnt at all be suprised to see either one of ccj or chol named in our 22 if we was to make the GF,theres tall timber on the list
id be showing the door before these 2

 

[Vauclose]

RCD needs to play. He has great attributes, but simply isn't fit enough and hasn't learnt to gut run. His timing at contests is also a bit off. When he gets it right he smashes the contest and gets the ball off. Relatively small improvements in his repeat effort ability and more significant improvements in knowing when to go, and where to go will lead to major improvements in his ability.

whether he is just an AFL player, or can be a good AFL player we don't know. But he has rare tools to work with.

I agree completely. I like what he brings to the table. He wants to succeed. The questions is can he develop a tank. He had a Covid free offseason and changed his body shape, but he still has that nagging deficiency.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

RCD is a tease. Shows attributes, but has profound deficiencies in his game. He lacks repeat efforts and is a bystander at stoppages if the opposition has the ball and are breaking away. He needs to model his game on Snake Baker. Sadly Ross and Martyn are a very poor version of Selwood.

Welcome Back

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

26 + 28 is more points than pick 14.

Would Bulldogs make that trade? We'd hit the draft with 3 picks potentially inside the top 16

I would rather keep 26 , There will be a highly rated player that slides to that range but wont be available in the 40's e.g Ned Long /Rhett Bazzo
We need just another 3rd rounder to make our offer too spicey for the doggies to refuse
7,14,17,26 would be what i love to go into the draft with

 

[Tygrys]

I would rather keep 26 , There will be a highly rated player that slides to that range but wont be available in the 40's e.g Ned Long /Rhett Bazzo
We need just another 3rd rounder to make our offer too spicey for the doggies to refuse
7,14,17,26 would be what i love to go into the draft with

Not being in the finals and not having a shot at a threepeat is a bummer. But I gotta tell ya going into the draft with a hand like that would still make 2021 a hell of a year.

 

[4tune8]

I think that the only way to get the Doggies 1st this year would be to trade our 2022 1st for it. After a bid comes for Darcy they could then on trade it to someone like GWS to get another pick in the 1st rnd this year.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Not being in the finals and not having a shot at a threepeat is bummer. But I gotta tell ya going into the draft with a hand like that would still make 2021 a hell of a year.

And if our recruiters are spot on - Thats actually a rebuild right there

7 - Cotchin Replacement
14 - Jack replacement
17 - Astbury replacement
26 - Edwards replacement


*Blake Schlensog - If we could perhaps get Blake or a similar freebee

 

[Drunken Wookie]

The more I'm reading the more I get the feeling this may not be the draft to covet bulk picks in the 2nd round onward. Seems to drop off substantially after the top 10 or so. Reckon we should be doing all we can to package picks and get as high in the draft as possible to nab a couple of genuine elite kids rather than hold on for a spread of speculative picks that, by the sounds of it, may not even be drafted in a stronger year. Or swap picks into next year with the hope of a better crop.
Could we trade for the Dogs pick and then on-trade it with the Cats pick for another top tenner, potentially?

 

[Mr Magic]

26 + 28 is more points than pick 14.

Would Bulldogs make that trade? We'd hit the draft with 3 picks potentially inside the top 16

I would do it for a number of reasons.

Richmond rarely get the chance to have better draft picks, We will get later draft picks in later years, We have ample opportunity to get draft picks in the twenties

We need to take advantage of an opportunity that allows us to be more select.


For example we can't be throwing away picks on Higgins when we have ample small forwards and only have to trade them out.

We need to use these better picks to target best available and player types we do not have enough of.

We have a lot of role players. We need opportunities to target players that can be better than just role players