List Mgmt. 2024 Draft Thread

Remove this Banner Ad

AFL again hinting that changes to NGA, NA and Father-Sons will happen this year

One purpose was: would see clubs forced to retain their first-round picks and hand them over in exchange for matching bids for their players.
 
AFL again hinting that changes to NGA, NA and Father-Sons will happen this year

One purpose was: would see clubs forced to retain their first-round picks and hand them over in exchange for matching bids for their players.
Can't disagree with that. The points system has been rorted for years by all clubs who have had to do first round bid-matching. It has distorted, nay corrupted, the whole draft points index system.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Yeah, I only watched the first half but he really stood out to me. With Richards moving into the midfield we could do with his type.
Duryea not getting any younger either and Bramble is a stop gap at best. Need to find a good mid sized defender in the next draft and probably a fast JJ type to play there though I haven't seen one yet.
 
Duryea not getting any younger either and Bramble is a stop gap at best. Need to find a good mid sized defender in the next draft and probably a fast JJ type to play there though I haven't seen one yet.
I would hope that Coffield could fill that gap for us
 
My current top 30
1. Finn O'Sullivan 181cm mid
2. Josh Smillie 194cm Mid
3. Jagga Smith 181cm Mid
4. Levi Ashcroft 179cm Mid
5. Christian Moraes 182cm Mid
6. Luke Trainor 194cm Def
7. Ben Camporeale 184cm Mid
8. Sam Lalor 187cm Mid
9. Leonardo Lombard 178cm Mid
10. Sid Draper 180cm mid
11. Joe Berry 180cm Fwd
12. Tyler Welsh 191cm Fwd
13. Lucas Camporeale 183cm Mid
14. Taj Hotton 182cm Mid
15. Noah Mraz 197cm Def
16. Luke Urquhart 183m Fwd
17. Harvey Langford 190cm Fwd/Mid
18. Bo Allan 188cm Def/Mid
19. Jack Whitlock 200cm Fwd
20. Matt Whitlock 199cm Util
21. Jonty Faull 194cm Fwd
22. Tobie Travaglia 187cm Def
23. Tom Gross 180cm Mid/Fwd
24. Lucca Grego 183cm Mid
25. Phoenix Hargrave 181cm mid
26. Isaac Kako 175cm Fwd
27. Malakai Champion 170cm Fwd
28. Taj Stanley 178cm Mid
29. Murphy Reid 181cm Mid/Fwd
30. Logan Smith 204cm Ruck
 
My current top 30
1. Finn O'Sullivan 181cm mid
2. Josh Smillie 194cm Mid
3. Jagga Smith 181cm Mid
4. Levi Ashcroft 179cm Mid
5. Christian Moraes 182cm Mid
6. Luke Trainor 194cm Def
7. Ben Camporeale 184cm Mid
8. Sam Lalor 187cm Mid
9. Leonardo Lombard 178cm Mid
10. Sid Draper 180cm mid
11. Joe Berry 180cm Fwd
12. Tyler Welsh 191cm Fwd
13. Lucas Camporeale 183cm Mid
14. Taj Hotton 182cm Mid
15. Noah Mraz 197cm Def
16. Luke Urquhart 183m Fwd
17. Harvey Langford 190cm Fwd/Mid
18. Bo Allan 188cm Def/Mid
19. Jack Whitlock 200cm Fwd
20. Matt Whitlock 199cm Util
21. Jonty Faull 194cm Fwd
22. Tobie Travaglia 187cm Def
23. Tom Gross 180cm Mid/Fwd
24. Lucca Grego 183cm Mid
25. Phoenix Hargrave 181cm mid
26. Isaac Kako 175cm Fwd
27. Malakai Champion 170cm Fwd
28. Taj Stanley 178cm Mid
29. Murphy Reid 181cm Mid/Fwd
30. Logan Smith 204cm Ruck
Did anyone catch Metro’s game on the weekend? Curious to know how Smillie went? I missed it and his possession numbers were low ish but did he impact?
 
Last edited:
Did anyone catch Metro’s game on the weekend? Curious to know how Smillie went? I missed it and his possession numbers were low ish but did he impact?
I was only able to make it for the country game and haven't had a chance to watch the replay yet. I'm sure someone else will be able to help though.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Did anyone catch Metro’s game on the weekend? Curious to know how Smillie went? I missed it and his possession numbers were low ish but did he impact?
Only caught half that game. Got the whole Country game where I liked some of the lesser talked about guys like Tyler Ivisic and Jasper Alger
 
My current top 30
1. Finn O'Sullivan 181cm mid
2. Josh Smillie 194cm Mid
3. Jagga Smith 181cm Mid
4. Levi Ashcroft 179cm Mid
5. Christian Moraes 182cm Mid
6. Luke Trainor 194cm Def
7. Ben Camporeale 184cm Mid
8. Sam Lalor 187cm Mid
9. Leonardo Lombard 178cm Mid
10. Sid Draper 180cm mid
11. Joe Berry 180cm Fwd
12. Tyler Welsh 191cm Fwd
13. Lucas Camporeale 183cm Mid
14. Taj Hotton 182cm Mid
15. Noah Mraz 197cm Def
16. Luke Urquhart 183m Fwd
17. Harvey Langford 190cm Fwd/Mid
18. Bo Allan 188cm Def/Mid
19. Jack Whitlock 200cm Fwd
20. Matt Whitlock 199cm Util
21. Jonty Faull 194cm Fwd
22. Tobie Travaglia 187cm Def
23. Tom Gross 180cm Mid/Fwd
24. Lucca Grego 183cm Mid
25. Phoenix Hargrave 181cm mid
26. Isaac Kako 175cm Fwd
27. Malakai Champion 170cm Fwd
28. Taj Stanley 178cm Mid
29. Murphy Reid 181cm Mid/Fwd
30. Logan Smith 204cm Ruck

I REALLY liked Luke Trainor in the game the All Stars played against our VFL Squad earlier this year.
 
AFL again hinting that changes to NGA, NA and Father-Sons will happen this year

One purpose was: would see clubs forced to retain their first-round picks and hand them over in exchange for matching bids for their players.
The most obvious change is surely to scrap the 20% discount on bids. The right to match a bid is advantage enough.

Not sure how you can force a club to maintain 1st round picks specifically, but could see them introducing a rule that you need to match a bid with another pick within X amount of picks after the bid, to prevent packaging up a bunch of late junk that's been the way for years.
 
Travaglia seems like a good fit for us, if we see Richards future in the midfield which we should.

Born in October so a late birthday and already a good size at 187cm.

Also seems to have good scope for a wing position aswell. So some versatility there.

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
The most obvious change is surely to scrap the 20% discount on bids. The right to match a bid is advantage enough.

Not sure how you can force a club to maintain 1st round picks specifically, but could see them introducing a rule that you need to match a bid with another pick within X amount of picks after the bid, to prevent packaging up a bunch of late junk that's been the way for years.
The issue originates from the fact that there's peverse economic interests when the Draft Value Index purports to represent the "true" value of draft picks but does not do that in reality. Otherwise, the discussion of teams with top 30 F/S academy players breaking up their early draft picks for more points (like we have done in recent years) makes no sense, as there's no meaningful gain in points for the equivalent trades that have already occurred, because neither team benefits, because the points truly represent the value of the picks.

A good example of this is the fact in 2015 we traded the pick that ended up being Curnow (around pick 11) for two picks that ended up being two picks in the early-mid 20s (Collins and Dunkley). Though we did not know the exact pick number at the time given there were other bids, that was a genuine trade done where both teams intended to use all three picks as live selections.

If we assume that to be equivalent, fair market value, the fact is we got more "points" for the picks in the 20's combined than the Blues got for their single Curnow pick, even though they're of equivalent value. Showing that the points associated with the picks in the 20's were slightly too high relative to the picks in the 10's (in turn, the single-digit picks).

A lot of the issues of the recent past could have simply been solved by adjusting the formula, which they have failed to do for over 10 years, which is a major issue.

My back of the envelope calculations that the double advantage (finals teams get way too many points relative to bottom picks with their standard draft picks, ie pick 18+36 should be worth much less than the 50% of 1+19 than it currently is), plus the ability to perform arbitrage on two different exchange rates, creates an advantage that's worth much more than the 20% discount.

As one of the rare teams who got two top-2/3 talent players under the bidding system, we got away with a lot. Not a mile above Geelong with Hawkins, Sydney with Heeney, Collingwood with Moore or Essendon with Daniher, but still a mile.
 
Last edited:
The issue originates from the fact that there's peverse economic interests when the Draft Value Index purports to represent the "true" value of draft picks but does not do that in reality. Otherwise, the discussion of teams with top 30 F/S academy players breaking up their early draft picks for more points (like we have done in recent years) makes no sense, as there's no meaningful gain in points for the equivalent trades that have already occurred, because neither team benefits, because the points truly represent the value of the picks.

A good example of this is the fact in 2015 we traded the pick that ended up being Curnow (around pick 11) for two picks that ended up being two picks in the early-mid 20s (Collins and Dunkley). Though we did not know the exact pick number at the time given there were other bids, that was a genuine trade done where both teams intended to use all three picks as live trades.

If we assume that to be equivalent, fair market value, the fact is we got more "points" for the picks in the 20's combined than the Blues got for their single Curnow pick, even though they're of equivalent value. Showing that the points associated with the picks in the 20's were slightly too high relative to the picks in the 10's (in turn, the single-digit picks).

A lot of the issues of the recent past could have simply been solved by adjusting the formula, which they have failed to do for over 10 years, which is a major issue.

My back of the envelope calculations that the double advantage (finals teams get way too many points relative to bottom picks with their standard draft picks, ie pick 18+36 should be worth much less than the 50% of 1+19 than it currently is), plus the ability to perform arbitrage on two different exchange rates, creates an advantage that's worth much more than the 20% discount.

As one of the rare teams who got two top-2/3 talent players under the bidding system, we got away with a lot. Not a mile above Geelong with Hawkins, Sydney with Heeney, Collingwood with Moore or Essendon with Daniher, but still a mile.
Great post. Fully agree.

I would also add that the value of a draft pick changes depending on the year, given relative strength of draft pool etc. Trying to quantify that value (and fix it in place) when there are so many variables at play is an impossible task.
 
Great post. Fully agree.

I would also add that the value of a draft pick changes depending on the year, given relative strength of draft pool etc. Trying to quantify that value (and fix it in place) when there are so many variables at play is an impossible task.
Yeah, but logically the trades should go in both directions. If the points value of a pick 40 or whatever represents the long-term average of that system, if in a year the draft is particularly strong we should run into years where teams are trading up for more points in that year. The fact that that never happens shows the inaccuracy of the draft system - all dozens of trades for more points has happened in the other direction.

The thing is, I think all of these additional rules is kind of silly. If a team has eight list spots open and wants to match pick 1 in the draft with 8 picks in the 2nd and 3rd round, let them - they have to get their hands on those eight picks somehow. The issue is that they're currently able to do it with five picks these, days not seven or eight picks or whatever that it should be.
 
Joe Berry looks great as a small forward, if we are still looking to bolster that area.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
The most obvious change is surely to scrap the 20% discount on bids. The right to match a bid is advantage enough.

Not sure how you can force a club to maintain 1st round picks specifically, but could see them introducing a rule that you need to match a bid with another pick within X amount of picks after the bid, to prevent packaging up a bunch of late junk that's been the way for years.
Think it can be simplified a lot easier than that you must have a pick in the round that the bid comes in. So if a bid comes in the first round you must have a 1st Round pick any deficit in points come off your next live pick / picks to make up the difference. That way you might be fortunate to pick up a talent but there is no getting ahead of a pick to get 2x 1st round talents.
And depending on the differential could wipe out your draft hand. And provide some balance and also the behind closed door deals *** cough ** cough Viney
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top