List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

If Stengle or Hayward end up at other clubs and we are left with the same forwards as the last few years I genuinely might not even watch the season.

It's the exact same story, year after year... Yet some in here still look at them as valuable commodities because of the 1-2 good games they can actually get fit and firing for.

Stengle, Hayward, Switkowski, Cumberland... Don't even care who much anymore, just anyone not made of cellophane!

The problem I see is players like Cumberland are completely unproven with red flags everywhere, it doesn’t solve anything it’s another hope and see. Switkowski has injuries and isn’t a goal kicker so sort of pointless.
Then there are the Hayward and Stengel types who every club would take if (including Sydney in Geelong) unless we offer reckless money. I’d be happy for us to do this but it’s a massive risk and you ran into the possibility of losing players we want to keep.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I think Martin is getting to the point where we offer him minimum wage and $20k a game.
Cuningham looks gone.
Marchbank needs to play for the rest of the season or will be gone.
Durdin will be gone.
If we are going to go hard to fill holes and need salary cap space then JSOS and Kennedy are two I would be letting look for a new home.

 

[Accidental genius]

If there was a choice I’d much prefer to keep Kennedy than Hewett.


Kennedy offers so much more.

He’s a much better mark and kick.

He and Cripps could rotate mid/forward.

If we could get a burst type mid then we’d have perfect balance in our mid group.

Cripps
Kennedy
Cerra
Walsh
New burst/power mid

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The problem I see is players like Cumberland are completely unproven with red flags everywhere, it doesn’t solve anything it’s another hope and see. Switkowski has injuries and isn’t a goal kicker so sort of pointless.
Then there are the Hayward and Stengel types who every club would take if (including Sydney in Geelong) unless we offer reckless money. I’d be happy for us to do this but it’s a massive risk and you ran into the possibility of losing players we want to keep.

All of our small forwards are completely unproven. If we're honest with ourselves there's every chance none of our smalls would get a game at the Tigers other than Martin at full health. Cumberland has shown the ability to be a match winner when he's played but admittedly he's also got some flaws, picking him up as a delisted free agent or for a token late pick doesn't really seem like much of a risk to me.

A Switkowski or Ainsworth type would be replacing DC in our team not a noted goal kicker. They force turnovers and bring others into the game with pressure and good ball use. Basically a 2nd Fog who can roll up into the midfield for a few minutes each quarter and add some speed.

Stengle/Hayward types are the dream but will be highly sought after as you said, but its gotten to the point where we almost HAVE to overreach for these players due to our terrible depth in the position.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

All of our small forwards are completely unproven. If we're honest with ourselves there's every chance none of our smalls would get a game at the Tigers other than Martin at full health. Cumberland has shown the ability to be a match winner when he's played but admittedly he's also got some flaws, picking him up as a delisted free agent or for a token late pick doesn't really seem like much of a risk to me.

A Switkowski or Ainsworth type would be replacing DC in our team not a noted goal kicker. They force turnovers and bring others into the game with pressure and good ball use. Basically a 2nd Fog who can roll up into the midfield for a few minutes each quarter and add some speed.

Stengle/Hayward types are the dream but will be highly sought after as you said, but its gotten to the point where we almost HAVE to overreach for these players due to our terrible depth in the position.

I’m just saying if you are getting a DFA then it’s a long shot of fixing a problem and guys like Owies and Motlop have shown more then Cumberland, though Cumberland seems more dynamic.
Switkowski I like but but another forward who doesn’t hit the scoreboard isn’t really what we need. He is another Fogarty. Ainsworth is a proper upgrade on what we have and what we need imo.

 

[macky99]

All of our small forwards are completely unproven. If we're honest with ourselves there's every chance none of our smalls would get a game at the Tigers other than Martin at full health. Cumberland has shown the ability to be a match winner when he's played but admittedly he's also got some flaws, picking him up as a delisted free agent or for a token late pick doesn't really seem like much of a risk to me.

A Switkowski or Ainsworth type would be replacing DC in our team not a noted goal kicker. They force turnovers and bring others into the game with pressure and good ball use. Basically a 2nd Fog who can roll up into the midfield for a few minutes each quarter and add some speed.

Stengle/Hayward types are the dream but will be highly sought after as you said, but its gotten to the point where we almost HAVE to overreach for these players due to our terrible depth in the position.

l believe there is zero chance of us being interested in Cumberland, he is not a match winner and clearly has issues which has been identified by several coaches.

l can see us going hard for Hayward, his decision won't be based on purely $.
l can see him staying in Sydney or playing in Melbourne.

 

[JustaBattler]

Take Stengle out of Geelong and he wouldn't be the player he is - because their system makes them all play better - same for Hayward.

You need list continuity as #1 priority ie players whose bodies can stand up to the rigours of AFL week in week out.

Once you have the basic ingredient through teh list THEN you can cherry pick the missing 'bits'.

right now the club must be having a very hard look at all of :

Cuningham Martin Marchbank - all OOC at end of year.

then you ave to add fingers crossed to Williams and McGovern as far as durability but contracted status goes ( big Durdin)

then you have to look at players who arent even good enough to fill a hole - - like Young but he is contracted
then you have to cross fingers about SIlvagni/Docherty coming bak and not getting re-injured add Akuie/Mirkov to the list


then you have to look at the durability of younger players like Motlop Cerra and Cottrell


the list looks great with all players fit - but the truth is now stark - a lot of those players are not proven AFL bodies


but yeah lets get rid of Kennedy or SOJ - that will fix all the above...

and no getting one so called gun in another team's system - wont guarantee similar output in our system and list status - both Hayward and Stengle benefit from the fitness, structure and system of where they are currently playing - no guarantees that they will be anything like that in Carlton's system.

Ufortunately teh compounding negatives of having a list clogged with constantly injured players who are supposed to be playing at the peak of their careers and are never on teh paddock is a massive cross to bare - and that weight just keeps getting heavier as time goes on.

List management has to start with only investing in AFL bodies first - and leave the runts and teh proven soft bodies OUT OF THE EQUATION

TLDR: Carlton is in danger of missing its flag window because it just doesn't have 28-30 AFL bodies on the list - not enough to support the super star players that form the nucleus of the team...

a lot of good luck will be required to navigate through this mess - a lot.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

I think Martin is getting to the point where we offer him minimum wage and $20k a game.
Cuningham looks gone.
Marchbank needs to play for the rest of the season or will be gone.
Durdin will be gone.
If we are going to go hard to fill holes and need salary cap space then JSOS and Kennedy are two I would be letting look for a new home.

$20k a good game.

(some sort of sliding scale...)

 

[DangerousD]

The thing is, if we had let those guys go already we would have kids on the list who would also not be ready to play. However, the issue is we now will have to do it all in one off season rather than staggering it. Like others have pointed out, in hindsight it’s been poor management.

Of those three you named, I suspect we will retain Marchbank on a 1 year deal as our key defensive stocks are threadbare. Martin and Cuningham will likely be let go despite being two of our most talented players. We will have to be aggressive in targeting free agents to replace them as we need ready-to-go guys while we are in a flag window. Speculative kids beyond pick 50 won’t help.

Aside from Marchbank, Martin, Cuningham, there is also McGovern (soft tissue), Williams (soft tissue, achilles, ACL), Docherty (ACLs), Silvagni (ACL), Cerra (soft tissue), Motlop (soft tissue), Walsh (back), Hewett (back), S. Durdin (soft tissue), Fantasia (soft tissue), Mirkov (heart), Cottrell (multiple foot injuries) who all are either injury prone or have ongoing issues that need management. It’s the single biggest reason we may not win a flag this year or while we are in the window.

Agree mostly, but why would you give a player who has been with us coming up to 8 years and has played 54 games? I know you say we are threadbare, but we have managed without him, the last four seasons he has managed 12 games, that’s not good for the team or the reserves.

Time to move on.

 

[DangerousD]

Our list of injury prone players extends further than just Cunners, Martin and Marchy, moving these three on should be the absolute minimum, we will still have a list of injury prone players to manage.

 

[Accidental genius]

Our list of injury prone players extends further than just Cunners, Martin and Marchy, moving these three on should be the absolute minimum, we will still have a list of injury prone players to manage.

Yeap - The club has been extremely good to these three in particular and over a long time.

Hopefully the players appreciate the good faith the club has acted on.

 

[BlueJet]

The problem with carrying routinely unavailable players is that it impacts the now due to their absence but it impacts planning too.
I feel we're carrying two mature state league standard KPD as cover, rather selecting someone to develop at the lower level with the eye to partnering & eventually replacing Weitering.
The occasional availability & even rarer top shelf game from some of these guys is fools gold IMO - going all in on some these players is concerning.

 

[Blue By Blood]

Agree mostly, but why would you give a player who has been with us coming up to 8 years and has played 54 games? I know you say we are threadbare, but we have managed without him, the last four seasons he has managed 12 games, that’s not good for the team or the reserves.

Time to move on.

It all comes down to who else is available to fill his spot and how many others we let go. Can we jag a suitable FA? Can we pluck another trade steal like Acres? Can we nail a late draft pick? Because that’s the reality.. we will be letting a lot of these guys go but can we replace them with ready made talent that can help us win a premiership. Trade steals are rare. Enticing a free agent when there’s lots of competition for their services is rare. I think we all agree these guys should be moved on but how do we actually bring in suitable talent to replace most of them with limited trade assets and limited salary cap? I stand by my comment that Marchbank will be kept and the others let go but time will tell.

 

[Garters]

It all comes down to who else is available to fill his spot and how many others we let go. Can we jag a suitable FA? Can we pluck another trade steal like Acres? Can we nail a late draft pick? Because that’s the reality.. we will be letting a lot of these guys go but can we replace them with ready made talent that can help us win a premiership. Trade steals are rare. Enticing a free agent when there’s lots of competition for their services is rare. I think we all agree these guys should be moved on but how do we actually bring in suitable talent to replace most of them with limited trade assets and limited salary cap? I stand by my comment that Marchbank will be kept and the others let go but time will tell.

Acres best piece of trading since Judd in terms of ROI and immediate impact.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Think we should throw SOSs grenade (pushing Weiterings price up) right back at him…

We need a KPD, to partner with Weitering.. Offer Battle a mid $$$ contract and a chance to play with a team in their premiership window…

He’s an UFA so Saints can’t match and would get bugger all compensation…

 

[Osc1]

Acres best piece of trading since Judd in terms of ROI and immediate impact.

Don’t forget Saad.

 

[Garters]

Don’t forget Saad.

Good point. Well up there as well, every bit the pick 8 or whatever it was. Esp when you think Dow / O'Brien / SPS.
For all the bullsh*t re we lost the trade ra ra. Sometimes better the devil you know before you buy, and pay appropriately for it. Judd, Acres, Saad all appropriately paid for relative to out put. Acres I would argue potentially top of that list given rumoured salary. Few more seasons will tell.

 

[Arr0w]

Whoever we acquire trade/FA, needs to have a history of durability

Happy with to draft high risk, high reward types with back end picks, not 1st and 2nd rounders

 

[Garters]

The whole strategy of getting injured talent for a song with the arrogance to believe you can get them right has proven a v costly strategy with the benefit of hindsight.
Could understand it during the early days of the rebuild, didn't have many other options but FMD the bandaid should have been ripped off re the 'current named cohort' that are now a genuine risk to premiership contention.
You live and learn.

 

[Coops93]

Whoever we acquire trade/FA, needs to have a history of durability

Happy with to draft high risk, high reward types with back end picks, not 1st and 2nd rounders

The best ability is availability.

High risk/High reward types are enticing and if it pays off everyone lauds how you get a bargain and how everyone else missed out on it, but this is the minority of cases.

 

[Pablito]

Get Cam Zurhaar.

Third tall - tick
X factor - tick
Tackles - tick
Loves a snag - tick
RFA - tick
Wants to win games - tick
Would improve in our setup - tick

Offer him 700k.

Get rid of Martin and Cunningham

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Get Cam Zurhaar.

Third tall - tick
X factor - tick
Tackles - tick
Loves a snag - tick
RFA - tick
Wants to win games - tick
Would improve in our setup - tick

Offer him 700k.

Get rid of Martin and Cunningham

Mid/Fwd with skill & speed - tick

 

[DangerousD]

If Hayward is not interested in coming to the Blues, i really hope we are taking to Ben Ainsworth

9

Ben Ainsworth

Age

26

Ht

178cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

6.1

4star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.7

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

12.8

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

4.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.3

3star

CL

0.3

2star

D

13.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.4

5star

CL

0.8

3star

manager, he is a solid player who continues to get better, free agent and plays a position we are in need of better players.

 

[Arr0w]

Great to target players that would be best or top 12 players in our side, but plenty of players out there that would still be strong contributors to our side at a cheaper option

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The more Geelong thumpings we see the more likely Stengle is to leave