Training 2024 Pre-Season

[Saintbloke]

They look like they have a young midfield but theirs are all pacey. It’s our kryptonite.

Pace is our weakness in the midfield, and I'm not seeing much that's going to change

 

[ScrappyDo]

Too hot to walk the dog tonight so just rewatched the practice match. How Wilson made it to our pick I'll never know.

 

[stfan]

Is Phillipou our new Goddard?

By that I mean an obviously highly talented player with some special attributes, but one whom does not readily own any position? And one who may not become a gun inside mid.

Now Phillipou is still very young, and has a while yet to develop and get to really shine.

The hope seems to be that he can become a gun mid for us. But will he? Or is he more destined to be a utility type player?

Now yes some say he shined as a mid in his youth, but was that more because he was a good player against not so good players? A bit like some big forwards dominating as boys, but being found out as men.


Now Phillipou radiates talent. But so far I am yet to see those things that scream inside mid. Hopefully as his body builds we will start to see it.

I suspect that one reason why Phillipou slipped somewhat was that other recruiters were not sure about his ability to become a gun inside mid at AFL level.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

Was anyone else impressed with Byrnes's game against Don's? Seemed stronger and was really trying to use his pace and strength to break tackles and find a man

No.

 

[gubby88]

Is Phillipou our new Goddard?

By that I mean an obviously highly talented player with some special attributes, but one whom does not readily own any position? And one who may not become a gun inside mid.

Now Phillipou is still very young, and has a while yet to develop and get to really shine.

The hope seems to be that he can become a gun mid for us. But will he? Or is he more destined to be a utility type player?

Now yes some say he shined as a mid in his youth, but was that more because he was a good player against not so good players? A bit like some big forwards dominating as boys, but being found out as men.


Now Phillipou radiates talent. But so far I am yet to see those things that scream inside mid. Hopefully as his body builds we will start to see it.

I suspect that one reason why Phillipou slipped somewhat was that other recruiters were not sure about his ability to become a gun inside mid at AFL level.

You have never watched his ability to get the hands off quickly while being tackled?

That's death set one of the best traits of a really good inside mid

 

[BrutThough]

 

[BrutThough]

If Crouch is fit, I dont see how he isn't selected for rd1 - Clark and Dow unavailable, Windy under a cloud. We will be light on for options.

It seems more of a question whether he will be fit in time.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Pace is our weakness in the midfield, and I'm not seeing much that's going to change

It's our strength elsewhere, so hopefully, we can compensate for that.

our HBF, HFF, and Wings are all quick.

 

[Ricmel]

Now Phillipou radiates talent. But so far I am yet to see those things that scream inside mid. Hopefully as his body builds we will start to see it.

I suspect that one reason why Phillipou slipped somewhat was that other recruiters were not sure about his ability to become a gun inside mid at AFL level.

He's 19 years old (just). Played all his AFL footy as an 18 year old. Can't think of any recent star mids that were cutting it up at 19 except maybe Nick Daicos. Really, if he has still not found a position by age 23/24 maybe this post would be credible but let's just see what happens when he hits his 20s next year.

 

[tomjoad]

Was anyone else impressed with Byrnes's game against Don's? Seemed stronger and was really trying to use his pace and strength to break tackles and find a man

I haven't understood the negativity around Byrnes to be honest. Many people seem to think that he's very low ceiling...however the fact is that he has progressed year on year since being drafted...so however low his ceiling is, he still hasn't reached it. He may not ever be a world beating A grade top liner (although he could do a Sinc's) but he could be handy player to have.

 

[hayes]

Is Phillipou our new Goddard?

By that I mean an obviously highly talented player with some special attributes, but one whom does not readily own any position? And one who may not become a gun inside mid.

Now Phillipou is still very young, and has a while yet to develop and get to really shine.

The hope seems to be that he can become a gun mid for us. But will he? Or is he more destined to be a utility type player?

Now yes some say he shined as a mid in his youth, but was that more because he was a good player against not so good players? A bit like some big forwards dominating as boys, but being found out as men.


Now Phillipou radiates talent. But so far I am yet to see those things that scream inside mid. Hopefully as his body builds we will start to see it.

I suspect that one reason why Phillipou slipped somewhat was that other recruiters were not sure about his ability to become a gun inside mid at AFL level.

I see him at minimum as more of a De Goey type whose game revolves more around damage from his possessions rather than contested beast type numbers. He’s ridiculously young so I wouldn’t put a ceiling on him or his contested game yet but he doesn’t have to put up Dangerfield/Oliver numbers to be a gun inside mid.

 

[CursingFijian]

In time Phillipou will be a big solid unit with a decent tank who will be hard to move off the ball. Giving him time in the middle now is setting us up for long term success, in my opinion. He can already play that half forward role with his eyes closed.

The sooner he learns the centre bounce craft the better.

However, I feel exactly the same way about Owens we should be giving him every opportunity to hone his clearance skills.

 

[bergholt]

We need a ready to play AFL level ruckman who can slot into Marshall's position if he gets injured and we need at least one other young ruckman developing on the list. As good a clubman as Tom Campbell is, he only remains on the list as a cheap stop gap player.

How many clubs have an AFL quality second ruck who doesn't play unless the other guy gets injured?

Rucks

Carlton: Pittonet, De Koning - YES
Fremantle: Darcy, Jackson - YES
GWS: Briggs, Preuss - YES
Sydney: Ladhams, Grundy - YES

Brisbane: McInerney, Fort - MAYBE
Essendon: Draper, Goldstein - MAYBE
Gold Coast: Witts, Moyle - MAYBE
Hawthorn: Reeves, Meek - MAYBE
Port Adelaide: Soldo, Sweet - MAYBE
St Kilda: Marshall, Campbell - MAYBE
West Coast: Williams, Flynn - MAYBE
Western Bulldogs: English, Lobb - MAYBE

Adelaide: O'Brien, Strachan - NO
Collingwood: Cameron, Cox - NO
Geelong: Stanley, Neale - NO
Melbourne: Gawn, Brown - NO
North Melbourne: Xerri, ? - NO
Richmond: Nankervis, Naismith - NO

I reckon only a few clubs have a serious second ruck, and I don't think we're a lot worse off than most.

Are we ****ed if Marshall gets injured? Yes. Would it be nice to have a quality second ruck who's happy to play twos until needed? Sure. Is it realistic? Nope.

 

[bergholt]

He's 19 years old (just). Played all his AFL footy as an 18 year old. Can't think of any recent star mids that were cutting it up at 19 except maybe Nick Daicos.

Sam Walsh was dominant his first year. Bont was good in his. Joel Selwood. Toby Greene averaged 28 touches in his first year playing mid at 19. Matty Rowell's first four games were legendary. Will Ashcroft was pretty good last year at 19. Oliver was pretty good his first year. Jack Macrae was very good very early. O'Meara too.

Not everyone makes it so early but a decent number of the best do.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

You have never watched his ability to get the hands off quickly while being tackled?

That's death set one of the best traits of a really good inside mid

Obvious as day that he’ll be a gun

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Cleary is an imbecile

 

[sammm]

Crouch likely to play, Jones trained with protective head gear so doubtful..Clark out for 8 weeks with a bad calf injury

8 weeks. Hunter is now very unlucku, fell over a black cat. And if he keeps being unlucky we might try and trade him

 

[Nutsngum]

8 weeks. Hunter is now very unlucku, fell over a black cat. And if he keeps being unlucky we might try and trade him

Clark is 4 - 6 weeks on all official updates on him. No idea where mike got 8weeks from

 

[SteeleSaints]

How many clubs have an AFL quality second ruck who doesn't play unless the other guy gets injured?

Rucks

Carlton: Pittonet, De Koning - YES
Fremantle: Darcy, Jackson - YES
GWS: Briggs, Preuss - YES
Sydney: Ladhams, Grundy - YES

Brisbane: McInerney, Fort - MAYBE
Essendon: Draper, Goldstein - MAYBE
Gold Coast: Witts, Moyle - MAYBE
Hawthorn: Reeves, Meek - MAYBE
Port Adelaide: Soldo, Sweet - MAYBE
St Kilda: Marshall, Campbell - MAYBE
West Coast: Williams, Flynn - MAYBE
Western Bulldogs: English, Lobb - MAYBE

Adelaide: O'Brien, Strachan - NO
Collingwood: Cameron, Cox - NO
Geelong: Stanley, Neale - NO
Melbourne: Gawn, Brown - NO
North Melbourne: Xerri, ? - NO
Richmond: Nankervis, Naismith - NO

I reckon only a few clubs have a serious second ruck, and I don't think we're a lot worse off than most.

Are we ****ed if Marshall gets injured? Yes. Would it be nice to have a quality second ruck who's happy to play twos until needed? Sure. Is it realistic? Nope.

You thwarted your own argument with nearly every club having better options going forward. It's really only us Adelaide and Melbourne who don't have an adequate backup ruckman. Even North Melbourne have Coleman-Jones who can also play forward. You listed Collingwood as a NO but Cox is a more than adequate fill in who can also play forward. They also have Billy Frampton who has done a reasonable job when rucking and also has versatility.

The other thing you missed was the amount of teams who have decent tall forwards who can ruck. Also the young ruckman the other clubs have coming through, A - Himmilberg, Thilthorpe, B - Daniher, Hipwood, Ryan, Car - Lemmey, Mirkov, OKeeffe, Col - Steene, E - Bryan, Visentini, F - Knobel, Reid, GWS - Madden, Derksen, H - Chol, Ramsden, Tucker, G -Blicavs, Conway, Furphy & Mitchell Edwards, GCS - Day, Ethan Read, M - Fullarton, Verall, Farris-White & Ben Brown, NM - Goad, Dawson & Free, PA - Todd Marshall, Kyle Marshall, Visentini, Scully, R - Balta, Ryan & Colina, Syd - McLean, Armatey, Green & McAndrew, WCE - Allen, Reid, Livingstone, Jamieson, WB - Gardner, Sam Darcy, Croft.

Campbell is not going to win us games and Heath seems further away than we thought. I reiterate that our ruck stocks are now our biggest list weakness and if we lose Marshall we will soon find out.

 

[stfan]

He's 19 years old (just). Played all his AFL footy as an 18 year old. Can't think of any recent star mids that were cutting it up at 19 except maybe Nick Daicos. Really, if he has still not found a position by age 23/24 maybe this post would be credible but let's just see what happens when he hits his 20s next year.

Don't get me wrong, I am not at all suggesting that he will not be a very good player. After all I was comparing him to Goddard.

I am just not sure where he will settle.

 

[stfan]

Obvious as day that he’ll be a gun

I was not questioning that, I am just not certain that he will be a gun inside mid.

Early days yet though, I certainly agree.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I see him at minimum as more of a De Goey type whose game revolves more around damage from his possessions rather than contested beast type numbers. He’s ridiculously young so I wouldn’t put a ceiling on him or his contested game yet but he doesn’t have to put up Dangerfield/Oliver numbers to be a gun inside mid.

A good proportion of his possessions are contested though.

 

[bergholt]

You thwarted your own argument with nearly every club having better options going forward. It's really only us Adelaide and Melbourne who don't have an adequate backup ruckman. Even North Melbourne have Coleman-Jones who can also play forward. You listed Collingwood as a NO but Cox is a more than adequate fill in who can also play forward. They also have Billy Frampton who has done a reasonable job when rucking and also has versatility.

The other thing you missed was the amount of teams who have decent tall forwards who can ruck. Also the young ruckman the other clubs have coming through, A - Himmilberg, Thilthorpe, B - Daniher, Hipwood, Ryan, Car - Lemmey, Mirkov, OKeeffe, Col - Steene, E - Bryan, Visentini, F - Knobel, Reid, GWS - Madden, Derksen, H - Chol, Ramsden, Tucker, G -Blicavs, Conway, Furphy & Mitchell Edwards, GCS - Day, Ethan Read, M - Fullarton, Verall, Farris-White & Ben Brown, NM - Goad, Dawson & Free, PA - Todd Marshall, Kyle Marshall, Visentini, Scully, R - Balta, Ryan & Colina, Syd - McLean, Armatey, Green & McAndrew, WCE - Allen, Reid, Livingstone, Jamieson, WB - Gardner, Sam Darcy, Croft.

Campbell is not going to win us games and Heath seems further away than we thought. I reiterate that our ruck stocks are now our biggest list weakness and if we lose Marshall we will soon find out.

Yeah that's why I said we're ****ed if Marshall gets injured.

But completely agree on decent tall forwards who can also ruck. That's what we need, and that's the main problem with Max - he can't be used in the ruck (for reasons I don't completely understand). I'd love it if we had an AFL quality tall forward who could also run in the ruck for 5 minutes a quarter and longer if the main ruck is injured.

But I still assert that Campbell in the ruck is no worse that CCJ or Cox or Frampton or whichever of those others you're citing. He's not dominant but he's ok at AFL level and can slot in. We'll lose a lot from Marshall to him but that would be the case with many of other teams' options as well.

 

[Saints43]

Think Wilson is going to surprise a lot of afl casuals. Havn;t seens omeone look as comfortable at thelevel for a while. In addition, his confidence to take the game on, sell candy, use his side step etc etc, is something usually seen from very special players.

It was great to see Wilson last Friday. I wasn't that impressed with the pre draft highlights package I watched but seeing him at Moorabbin was something else.
I can't think of who would be the last kid we drafted that was as ready to play senior football as him.
He's a 30 year old 18 year old.

 

[stavro#4]

It was great to see Wilson last Friday. I wasn't that impressed with the pre draft highlights package I watched but seeing him at Moorabbin was something else.
I can't think of who would be the last kid we drafted that was as ready to play senior football as him.
He's a 30 year old 18 year old.

Phillipou played 24/24 games last year.

Not sure how anyone could say anything about drafting a kid who was ready to play round 1 when we did last year.

And the injuries aren’t the reason Pou played. Evident via him not missing a game