List Mgmt. 2025 List Management III 📃

[Sector 7G]

Hollands is better than those players you listed … you’re in for a rude awakening as I have watched a bit of Chesser and he is average at best … not even close to what hollands can produce

Everyone looks average in a team like WCE. Look how Owies went from 35 goals for the season to less than 10.

 

[Sonny Jim]

Another worry for me is Voss and the match committee seem to have their favourites. They had a stinker last season. I don't have a lot of confidence that they will drop the guys like Acres / Hollands who play outside roles but top our Clanger list.

There'll be a bit more competition for wing roles this year though. Injury and list profile have allowed some players a bit of luxury that they probably won't get next year.

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

Hollands is better than those players you listed … you’re in for a rude awakening as I have watched a bit of Chesser and he is average at best … not even close to what hollands can produce

Club have made a savvy pick up with Chesser imo. High draft pick who was unable to get his body right for a long time. Then when he did get

fit, he showed his true potential. He is a fantastically athletic type, with burst speed and power. Have very high hopes for this kid.

 

[Lukeblueboy]

Club have made a savvy pick up with Chesser imo. High draft pick who was unable to get his body right for a long time. Then when he did get

fit, he showed his true potential. He is a fantastically athletic type, with burst speed and power. Have very high hopes for this kid.

So do I ss. Could be anything imo
Got everything in a player we need

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Not sure how this thread turned into an Ollie discussion, but just to add.

IMO he's NOT a half back in any way, shape or form. In his U18 year, he was trialled there on a few occasions including one of the Academy games, and was just awful. In one of the games, he was moved back up the the wing during the 2nd half just to get into the game. And from what I've seen at senior level, it hasn't changed my opinion.

Ollie is a good honest battler with the heart of a lion, and can run all day. As one of the analysts said in his draft year, one of his greatest assets is that he runs his opponent ragged as the game wears on, and can just keep going like the energiser bunny. Being locked in a defensive role takes away that asset.

Chesser, Ollie and (hopefully) Lucas should be our outside wing running machines for the next 10 year.

 

[BluStreak]

Not sure how this thread turned into an Ollie discussion, but just to add.

IMO he's NOT a half back in any way, shape or form. In his U18 year, he was trialled there on a few occasions including one of the Academy games, and was just awful. In one of the games, he was moved back up the the wing during the 2nd half just to get into the game. And from what I've seen at senior level, it hasn't changed my opinion.

Ollie is a good honest battler with the heart of a lion, and can run all day. As one of the analysts said in his draft year, one of his greatest assets is that he runs his opponent ragged as the game wears on, and can just keep going like the energiser bunny. Being locked in a defensive role takes away that asset.

Chesser, Ollie and (hopefully) Lucas should be our outside wing running machines for the next 10 year.

For me, the move of Ollie to HB was to provide run, which he did. Now we have players who can replace him in that role.
Hence a move back to Wing is on the cards. I believe that the stint at HB has given him a more defensive mindset and that will be evident in his game on the Wing.

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

For me, the move of Ollie to HB was to provide run, which he did. Now we have players who can replace him in that role.
Hence a move back to Wing is on the cards. I believe that the stint at HB has given him a more defensive mindset and that will be evident in his game on the Wing.

He also looks for attacking options as opposed to Saad's 8m sideways dinks.

 

[SurreyBlue]

For me, the move of Ollie to HB was to provide run, which he did. Now we have players who can replace him in that role.
Hence a move back to Wing is on the cards. I believe that the stint at HB has given him a more defensive mindset and that will be evident in his game on the Wing.

Back Pocket is where some have mentioned he should be played.

 

[Moon]

I like Ollie and think he will be a good player. But when he plays that undersized / loose half back role - doesn't get a lot of disposals, can't break a tackle and can't stick a tackle - his disposal has to be absolutely elite to justify his spot. Unfortunately his disposal was nowhere near that level. He takes the safe option too much and then often misses the target when doing so.

Ollie is as rough as guts and like Manic Man on steroids ... lacks awareness, class, precision .. but good attitude, gives 100% and massive tank.. a real workhorse that we need firing on all 8 cylinders ... but with better skills.

I wish a switched on development Coach would single out Ollie and transform him into a Carlton Gun. If only....

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Ollie is as rough as guts and like Manic Man on steroids ... lacks awareness, class, precision .. but good attitude, gives 100% and massive tank.. a real workhorse that we need firing on all 8 cylinders ... but with better skills.

I wish a switched on development Coach would single out Ollie and transform him into a Carlton Gun. If only....

I think a lot of the time these types end up transforming themselves into guns through sheer determination.

Ollie sought out a speed coach last pre season and made considerable strides in improving his acceleration and top end speed.

Strength in the contest still a bit of an issue and the kid is practically living in the gym this pre season.

Kicking will never be elite but there's no reason to think he won't improve it as much as he's physically capable of.

Cripps has been a similar case. He really only had one major strength when he came into the AFL and that was his strength over the ball/through the hips. He's improved his overhead marking, acceleration, kicking and endurance out of sight. Those characters generally know their weaknesses and spend their off seasons working hard on improving them.

 

[Soapy V]

So, over his first three seasons Ollie has played Wing first two years and then last year was moved to HB. A developing player learning a new role. As the year went on he got better and better even as the side got worse. It was easily his best season. He was above avg in most stats and elite in tackling.

Ball use and awareness needs improvement and should as he should as side/defence improves. Go look at Whitfield's first year or so at HB. Wasn't great

But now people want to move him back to a Wing? Talk about poor development

Next year we will have Acres (fit) Chesser Lucas Jagga Cottrell Flynn Ison Walsh Florent that can play Wing and not to mention that Voss generally likes to rotate one of our mids through there. Even late last year we played Haynes on a Wing

Seriously, the kid played well and kept getting better. Let him settle and work on some basics

 

[tragic]

So, over his first three seasons Ollie has played Wing first two years and then last year was moved to HB. A developing player learning a new role. As the year went on he got better and better even as the side got worse. It was easily his best season

Ball use and awareness needs improvement and should as he should as side/defence improves. Go look at Whitfield's first year or so at HB. Wasn't great

But now people want to move him back to a Wing? Talk about poor development

Next year we will have Acres (fit) Chesser Lucas Jagga Cottrell Flynn Ison Walsh Florent that can play Wing and not to mention that Voss generally likes to rotate one of our mids through there. Even late last year we played Haynes on a Wing

Seriously, the kid played well and kept getting better. Let him settle and work on some basics

Love you passion Soapy but attacking half back is becoming one of the more important positions on the ground and unfortunately Ollie is just not it.

 

[Soapy V]

Love you passion Soapy but attacking half back is becoming one of the more important positions on the ground and unfortunately Ollie is just not it.

Not about passion. Ollie may make it, he may not. None of us truly know. At the moment that is opinion

What I am pointing out is the facts as they stand.

 

[Bfevola]

Dont know why people like to bag Ollie. He is the least of our issues. What else do you all want, he runs all day and busts his gut. Maybe his skills are not elite, but we need these types of guys. Would rather someone that busts a gut than someone with all the talent in the world and does nothing.

Cmon what are you all seeing........

I agree Ollie should be on a wing and made to run two ways.

 

[BlueJet]

I'm less concerned with Ollie than others.
Would it be better if he had a bit more polish or was stronger in the contest? Of course but then, he'd have gone well before our pick.
He competes, he works to provide an option, provides cover defensively & doesn't need to be spoon-fed the ball.. he's a solid role player & that's ok.
He's not a LOB, Cuningham, Fisher or SPS though either, who were capable of being MIA for stretches & I'm pretty happy with that.

 

[Crippa#9]

So, over his first three seasons Ollie has played Wing first two years and then last year was moved to HB. A developing player learning a new role. As the year went on he got better and better even as the side got worse. It was easily his best season. He was above avg in most stats and elite in tackling.

Ball use and awareness needs improvement and should as he should as side/defence improves. Go look at Whitfield's first year or so at HB. Wasn't great

But now people want to move him back to a Wing? Talk about poor development

Next year we will have Acres (fit) Chesser Lucas Jagga Cottrell Flynn Ison Walsh Florent that can play Wing and not to mention that Voss generally likes to rotate one of our mids through there. Even late last year we played Haynes on a Wing

Seriously, the kid played well and kept getting better. Let him settle and work on some basics

Was the move to HB a little premature however given everyone could see his kicking deficiencies?

I thought he was developing reasonably well in the wing position - the position he played most of his junior career in and presumably was drafted for. Acres, Binns, Cotts & Doc stunk it up and/or were unavailable in this role this year and we were left vulnerable on the outside.

We know Ollie's got a unique tank & we know he's competitive - the encouraging signs in the latter half of this year was his ability to find the footy and get on the end of chains coming out of half back. The challenge for Ollie is clearly his delivery, his decision making coming out of half back and his overall damage appeal.

Ollie was always going to be a player that will see the best of once he added muscle & has 85 odd games under his belt (he's on 65 now). Expecting another year of growth from Ollie and then would expect to see him contending for a Top 3 B&F finish in 2027.

 

[marcmurphy3]

So, over his first three seasons Ollie has played Wing first two years and then last year was moved to HB. A developing player learning a new role. As the year went on he got better and better even as the side got worse. It was easily his best season. He was above avg in most stats and elite in tackling.

Ball use and awareness needs improvement and should as he should as side/defence improves. Go look at Whitfield's first year or so at HB. Wasn't great

But now people want to move him back to a Wing? Talk about poor development

Next year we will have Acres (fit) Chesser Lucas Jagga Cottrell Flynn Ison Walsh Florent that can play Wing and not to mention that Voss generally likes to rotate one of our mids through there. Even late last year we played Haynes on a Wing

Seriously, the kid played well and kept getting better. Let him settle and work on some basics

I dont think its really going to hurt his development one way or the other. Hes only played the 2 roles. There is some overlap between them. Whatever the ratio is he'll probably spend at least some time in both.

I think he plays where is best for the team. And I think we have better options as half back distributors, hence wing for me.

 

[goreds]

I'm less concerned with Ollie than others.
Would it be better if he had a bit more polish or was stronger in the contest? Of course but then, he'd have gone well before our pick.
He competes, he works to provide an option, provides cover defensively & doesn't need to be spoon-fed the ball.. he's a solid role player & that's ok.
He's not a LOB, Cuningham, Fisher or SPS though either, who were capable of being MIA for stretches & I'm pretty happy with that.

I think we have got a few upgrades coming into the team.

Chesser and Newman get a run before Ollie and apparently there is another bloke by the name of Jagga who starts somewhere near the square. Acres gets in before Ollie as well, because he can catch it and has strength/power.

Ollie will be fringe if we can keep our players on the park.

 

[CJMB]

I'm ok with Ollie playing every week. You'll get a couple of missed targets, as you do from all our players, but at least he's usually looking for the right option, running all day covering for other players, and isn't afraid to put himself in the hole.

I'd like to see him go back to the wing. To me it felt like he pushed back through necessity, with our back 6 being pretty slow across the board. You've got Cowan who's coming along really nicely, but Newman is slow, Saad has a burst but afraid to blow his hammies so only pulls it out once every 6 weeks and it only does anything beneficial every second time because he doesn't seem to think when he runs.

I'd be comfortable, injuries permitting, not seeing Acres, Saad, Fog & Gov again.

 

[esoteric]

I think we have got a few upgrades coming into the team.

Chesser and Newman get a run before Ollie and apparently there is another bloke by the name of Jagga who starts somewhere near the square. Acres gets in before Ollie as well, because he can catch it and has strength/power.

Ollie will be fringe if we can keep our players on the park.

Ollie is comfortably ahead of Chesser for now at least. Let's see how that one plays out. Hopefully both can become best 23 in 2026.

 

[goreds]

Ollie is comfortably ahead of Chesser for now at least. Let's see how that one plays out. Hopefully both can become best 23 in 2026.

Only because of number of games played (Chesser has had surgery earlier in the year and is 100% now). His skill level is next level; his running ability is next level (state middle distance runner) and has genuine speed.

They wanted him big time to improve our running power and delivery.

 

[Jimmae]

I think a lot of the time these types end up transforming themselves into guns through sheer determination.

Ollie sought out a speed coach last pre season and made considerable strides in improving his acceleration and top end speed.

Strength in the contest still a bit of an issue and the kid is practically living in the gym this pre season.

Kicking will never be elite but there's no reason to think he won't improve it as much as he's physically capable of.

Cripps has been a similar case. He really only had one major strength when he came into the AFL and that was his strength over the ball/through the hips. He's improved his overhead marking, acceleration, kicking and endurance out of sight. Those characters generally know their weaknesses and spend their off seasons working hard on improving them.

Cripps had a good first 5m coming in, he just needed sprint training to extend that and not give himself back and collision injuries.

 

[JustOneTime]

Not about passion. Ollie may make it, he may not. None of us truly know. At the moment that is opinion

What I am pointing out is the facts as they stand.

Not facts Soapy, just your own opinion that you want believed about him improving as the season went on.

The data doesnt support what you say are facts. Less disposals, a lot more holding the ball against in the second half, less metres gained and lots more all went worse.

You just have an opinion like the rest of us. It's probably your eye test that told you this rather than the data. That fits into opinion.

Personally i look at traits. Can run, can get to receive positions, works extremely hard on repetitive efforts in running, cant extricate most tackles, cant stick a tackle against a bigger bodies, is not good defensively in the air, is a good try-hard kick without elite characteristics. Mentally a strong performer and resilient in the face of things going shit.

Most of those observations fit wing. The space will by him more time to execute a better kick. He will still get upended in tackles but less than in defence and the cost to the team will be less.

The only thing i tend to agree on is the club is sourcing more wingers...and that is part of the reason while Carlton are floundering...they dont recognise what they have properly. First it was 8+ inside mids now they have moved on to 8+ wingers.

None of this is fact by the way. This is all opinion.

 

[Soapy V]

Not facts Soapy, just your own opinion that you want believed about him improving as the season went on.

The data doesnt support what you say are facts. Less disposals, a lot more holding the ball against in the second half, less metres gained and lots more all went worse.

You just have an opinion like the rest of us.

I pointed to data in which he was above avg in nearly every stat and tackling was elite this season. Way up on last season.

I also stated the options we have in each position.

He also earned more votes in B&F on second half of the year than the first

These are facts

Opinion is whether his best spot is wing or hb and can he get better

 

[JustOneTime]

I pointed to data in which he was above avg in nearly every stat and tackling was elite.

Well i checked your statement that he improved as the season went on. I didnt find that in most key stats. I only checked because you define your argument as factual about Hollands and others as poor opinion.