List Mgmt. 2026 List Management

[Stamos]

Whenever we trade up the order draft it's two high picks for one rather than a subtle push to get ahead of a club for a player who we think will be a bargain selection. We are just not that subtle. It's just mostly us waiting on our turn each year, drafting who we consider to be the best available midfielder (who must also be a 'nice' guy) and then picking up two or three glorified foot soldiers each with what's left, partly because they are all we can afford, and partly because we are scared of having players in the twos who arguably won't get a game for a few years. Yes, Austin's last few years have been a little different but there is something in the details that makes me think that's largely fate rather than the penny dropping.

We’ve traded 2 high picks for 1 twice in 11 years, if you consider picks 20 and 21 that we swapped for with the Dogs to pick Charlie Curnow as “high”.

We’ve traded picks in so many different ways since that 2015 draft (up, down, forward, back), not sure if it’s that your memory is poor, or you just love having an axe to grind?

 

[branedotorg]

We’ve traded 2 high picks for 1 twice in 11 years, if you consider picks 20 and 21 that we swapped for with the Dogs to pick Charlie Curnow as “high”.

We’ve traded picks in so many different ways since that 2015 draft (up, down, forward, back), not sure if it’s that your memory is poor, or you just love having an axe to grind?

2018 Trade for Shane McAdam and Mitch McGovern - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

This is probably another example but it didn't burn us particularly

 

[Stamos]

2018 Trade for Shane McAdam and Mitch McGovern - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

This is probably another example but it didn't burn us particularly

Well, McGovern wasn’t a pick

 

[thebluelagoon]

I’m not sure it matter whether you trade up or trade down, if you can’t out pick the opposition then you are going to end up with below average talent on your list. (Unless you have house and land packages to give away)

We need a good recruiting team. I would have sos back as a line recruiter specifically for talls. (Apart from taking Kristian jackshit twice) he got the job done at Carlton and stocked the talls cupboard, maybe being a kpp gives him insight into talls! His midfield recruiting however gives me cold shivers, he definitely should have traded up using the Dow and sps picks (or traded those picks for a decent recruiting manager)

 

[Stamos]

Apart from taking Kristian jackshit twice

Only picked him once.
Traded him out once, delisted him once.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I’m not sure it matter whether you trade up or trade down, if you can’t out pick the opposition then you are going to end up with below average talent on your list. (Unless you have house and land packages to give away)

We need a good recruiting team. I would have sos back as a line recruiter specifically for talls. (Apart from taking Kristian jackshit twice) he got the job done at Carlton and stocked the talls cupboard, maybe being a kpp gives him insight into talls! His midfield recruiting however gives me cold shivers, he definitely should have traded up using the Dow and sps picks (or traded those picks for a decent recruiting manager)

SOS is my all time favourite player. But having him back just doesn’t make sense. He wouldn’t come back for starters.

The only reason he got the talls right was because Weitering, Charlie and Harry were fairly obvious choices imo.

SOS is a grumpy man and not someone we need. We have and should have moved on from him.

 

[juzza316]

SOS is my all time favourite player. But having him back just doesn’t make sense. He wouldn’t come back for starters.

The only reason he got the talls right was because Weitering, Charlie and Harry were fairly obvious choices imo.

SOS is a grumpy man and not someone we need. We have and should have moved on from him.

As much as he is a bitter old prick you have to give credit for this draft. Weitering obvious but he nailed Curnow and Mckay. That was a generational suite of talls that we should have won a flag from.

 

[JustOneTime]

We need a list manager who also prioritises ruckman, small forwards and 2nd key back. I'm guessing Jagga, Dean and walker means we will not see a decent player in this position until he is moved on.

Austin sourced young, boyd and tried that useless defender that failed due to the deadline saving us in 2025. Austin is basically a clone of SoS in picking up previous rejects.

 

[Benaly28]

As much as he is a bitter old prick you have to give credit for this draft. Weitering obvious but he nailed Curnow and Mckay. That was a generational suite of talls that we should have won a flag from.

23 was that year.

 

[JustOneTime]

Dawson pick 56 that year.

 

[JustOneTime]

Given we are resetting who do we all think are assets in the current style of the game?

Yes...

• Cerra (if not always injured gets a pass)
• Jagga
• Dean
• Weitering (4 years left as we arnt going to be a successful to warrant longevity)
• Mckay (4 years left as we arnt going to be a successful to warrant longevity)
• Walsh (but dont like his kicking. He will be getting Gulden/Warner money but cant kick)
• Hayward/Ainsworth (without good midfield kicking supply they will be invisible most games)
• O Hollands (only for the wing but zero damage factor)

Yes with a little blind optimism thrown in...

• Carroll (can pivot inside and kick just needs to progress to another level).
• Cowan (more on blind hope. Cowan run/dash is more Saad like - zero reward).
• Motlop/Byrne (on blind hope and at least playing the role they were meant for)
• Lord (like him but needs to progress to another level)
• Chesser (but really not excited)
• HOF (but remember Williamson...early hype then gone)
• Ison (basically he needs to be good)

Blah...

• Florent (good for right now)
• Moir (I'm really not sold)
• Campos because disposal is critical right now

Exiting the train within 2 years...(we're going to need some serious picks)

• McGovern
• Haynes
• Saad
• Cripps
• Hewett
• Young
• Boyd
• Williams
• E Hollands (way to slow and weak as crap in a tackle)
• Acres
• Our rucks
• Fogarty
• Newman
• Cottrell

Exiting the train within 3 years...

• Hayward
• Ainsworth

Basically we have a bit of work to do in this reset. The 2015 build has died without much reward.

It's why in that Eddie/Jimmy video both say Carlton and then the first thing that comes to their mind. Carlton, completely fooked. Hate Eddie but he is spot on and having a worldy at our expense. Walker isnt going to cut it.

 

[Accidental genius]

Dawson pick 56 that year.

Yeap…and sos talked about some ‘smart’ software to help with list management.

 

[JustOneTime]

Yeap…and sos talked about some ‘smart’ software to help with list management.

It must have a bug in it because he is paying most of his salary cap to 3 players. It is going to end in disaster for SoS.

The golden name trashed for all time.

 

[Accidental genius]

Given we are resetting who do we all think are assets in the current style of the game?

Yes...

• Cerra (if not always injured gets a pass)
• Jagga
• Dean
• Weitering (4 years left as we arnt going to be a successful to warrant longevity)
• Mckay (4 years left as we arnt going to be a successful to warrant longevity)
• Walsh (but dont like his kicking. He will be getting Gulden/Warner money but cant kick)
• Hayward/Ainsworth (without good midfield kicking supply they will be invisible most games)
• O Hollands (only for the wing but zero damage factor)

Yes with a little blind optimism thrown in...

• Carroll (can pivot inside and kick just needs to progress to another level).
• Cowan (more on blind hope. Cowan run/dash is more Saad like - zero reward).
• Motlop/Byrne (on blind hope and at least playing the role they were meant for)
• Lord (like him but needs to progress to another level)
• Chesser (but really not excited)
• HOF (but remember Williamson...early hype then gone)
• Ison (basically he needs to be good)

Blah...

• Florent (good for right now)
• Moir (I'm really not sold)
• Campos because disposal is critical right now

Exiting the train within 2 years...(we're going to need some serious picks)

• McGovern
• Haynes
• Saad
• Cripps
• Hewett
• Young
• Boyd
• Williams
• E Hollands (way to slow and weak as crap in a tackle)
• Acres
• Our rucks
• Fogarty
• Newman
• Cottrell

Exiting the train within 3 years...

• Hayward
• Ainsworth

Basically we have a bit of work to do in this reset. The 2015 build has died without much reward.

It's why in that Eddie/Jimmy video both say Carlton and then the first thing that comes to their mind. Carlton, completely fooked. Hate Eddie but he is spot on and having a worldy at our expense. Walker isnt going to cut it.

Walsh is potentially an issue if he is getting gulden type money…on 8 years

 

[carlton_99]

It's why in that Eddie/Jimmy video both say Carlton and then the first thing that comes to their mind. Carlton, completely fooked

If you are referring to Eddie's "rhymes with mucked" comment at the start of the podcast he was reading out a fan's email who used the expletive. It was not their own view.

Jimmy actually went on to speak about how Carlton would be one of the more attractive propositions for anyone wanting to do something in footy and Eddie agreed.

 

[dangertroy]

It isnt about retrospect. It isnt about the failure of split picks like Kemp.

It is about pure gameboard strategy of 2 picks for one player deals. It just doesnt come off that great to me.

We need a side to have 25-30 good players to give coverage. That is going to be nigh impossible if we keep losing 2 players (8-16) for one deals (2-5). We will do it again for walker after Jagga after Dean.

Secondly, these type of deals lead to huge risky contracts where the clubs money is only on a couple of players. It leads to list contract trouble. Carlton have already gone down this path of Weitering, Cripps, Walsh, Curnow. They would even have paid a monster deal to TDK because of the Curnow/Walsh type deals but just got saved by a crazee St Kilda deal. TDK is a desirable player but cost is an important thing in a salary cap.

It's lazy player mgmt to give too much to a few. It blocks an even list. We have already been guilty a few times over doing this (Murphy, Judd, Kruse, Gibbs then nothing).

If you are sitting down and setting up a list mgmt strategy you are looking for 25 strong role players who know their role going forward. Use your picks in the draft to increase your squad quality baseline. Don't use it in fear like Austin and herd to safety.

If you do split picks like SoS agreed to with Kemp/Philp and get it wrong then sack an Agresta/SoS because they are shit. But dont give up on a good strategy play. Moreover just use your pick and back yourself in.

As for needing a pick in your side 1-3 to just lead a group of more even players...that comes naturally; don't orchestrate it. We already had Walsh. You will get a pick naturally with one poor season. Don't overpay on the risk that your number 1 pick you eventually find out cant kick when kicking is instrumental.

The cost of 2 picks for one deals?
We never have a good small forward and we never have a good second key back. We never get to solving that because we never have any draft capital left over to fill these important secondary roles. Leaves us with Young and Derk...Austin simply wants you to see the shine on Jagga. It literally is why we have Fogarty on our list playing as a smal lforward right now....no resources left.

So even though we can demonstrate that this strategy can fail, it’s still better strategy because two good players are better than one? Hard to argue that on face value, but I’ll play it out anyway.

Yes, you need a full team of good players. But good players aren’t exclusively first round picks. The sides that do well pick well with late picks too. Good rookie, MSD, SSP picks. Have we done well with these picks? I think we’ve done above average recently - HOF, Lord, Carroll, Cowan. Geelong are the masters here.

Secondly, I agree it’s risky to pay too much to too few. It’s why we’ve worked to rebalance the books over the last few years. What’s not clear to me is how trading up increases risky contracts. Contract risk doesn’t scale up with draft pick number. Let’s assume instead of smith and dean, we nailed four picks in the teens. Do we now have four risky contracts instead of two? Or are they only risky if they were a high pick? Of the ones quoted above, Cripps and Curnow were picks in the teens, TDK was in the 30s.

Big money risky contracts aren’t a function of trading up to a high draft pick, they are a function of picking good players. If you’re saying that they are more common for very high draft picks, surely that’s just more evidence that the high draft picks are more likely to succeed.

The risk is in making the wrong picks. If we can’t nail one pick in the top three, how are we going to nail two in the teens? If we can nail the picks, then we will probably nail some late ones too.

Finally, I don’t look at last year as a ‘two players for one’ scenario. You can definitely look at Jagga that way, but Dean is different. We went into the draft with 2 firsts, and two thirds. We got Dean, Ison and Byrne, AND two future seconds and a future third. We didn’t have to do that. We could have held 9 and 11 and matched. We would have ended up with a pick in the mid to late teens. We didn’t do that because we didn’t rate anyone there. We didn’t rate last years draft. The strategy was clear from the year before - Dean and Ison, and stock up for Cody. That’s what enabled us to trade up for Jagga in the first place. We did end up with two firsts, but that was mainly because we were letting free agents go rather than taking crazy risks on contracts.

 

[dangertroy]

We need a list manager who also prioritises ruckman, small forwards and 2nd key back. I'm guessing Jagga, Dean and walker means we will not see a decent player in this position until he is moved on.

Austin sourced young, boyd and tried that useless defender that failed due to the deadline saving us in 2025. Austin is basically a clone of SoS in picking up previous rejects.

Not trying to pick on you I swear, but it’s pretty clear you’ve made up your mind about Austin and I’m not going to change your mind. But for some reason…

In the last two years:
Dean, HOF and Haynes (more a third tall, but he plays taller) as key backs.
Ainsworth, Byrne and Frankie as small forwards.
Reidy as a ruck.

Judging by your tier list, you don’t rate many of them. Opinions and all. But you can’t imply he’s not aware of this, or acting on it. Or in the case of Dean, you know he clearly prioritised it, given you don’t like how he matched the bid for the clear best KPD in the draft.

 

[BluStreak]

The media pundits reckon that Butters will be courted by every other team, especially the 10 in Melbourne.
Is there other Port players who would cost less ($ and trade) but who would provide an upgrade on one of our players?
Then we target that player in a deal with Port rather then blow out on Butters.
I believe that we are one club who could have the money to get Butters. Sure there would be a couple of players not re-signed to allow this.

 

[BluStreak]

If we have Dean, O'Farrell and Young as our tall defenders could we use Jacob as trade collatoral?
if so what would we expect as a return?

 

[JustOneTime]

Not trying to pick on you I swear, but it’s pretty clear you’ve made up your mind about Austin and I’m not going to change your mind. But for some reason…

In the last two years:
Dean, HOF and Haynes (more a third tall, but he plays taller) as key backs.
Ainsworth, Byrne and Frankie as small forwards.
Reidy as a ruck.

Judging by your tier list, you don’t rate many of them. Opinions and all. But you can’t imply he’s not aware of this, or acting on it. Or in the case of Dean, you know he clearly prioritised it, given you don’t like how he matched the bid for the clear best KPD in the draft.

It's worth someone calling me out for sure.

I think it is in the nuanced view on things but that is me seeing it my way again. We started a build in 2015 and the gaps have been there thru SoS and Austin. But Austin is more guilty IMO as he is at the wheel during 3-5 flag tilt years that has now gone pear-shaped with zilcho and now a reset. He never addressed the smalls or second key back during that time. Glaring holes. He never even saw how the game was changing to speed/kick outside as he went for the Lord/B Campo double selection while having the slow Cripps/Hollands/Hewett/Fogarty/Cerra. He signed Walsh to an 8 year contract but it is critically important that he has bad injury history and cant kick to save himself...by name/contract he is our comparable player to Daicos/Warner going forward with an 8 year contract but they are light years apart in effective output.

The Holland boys are soooo slow. So no future insight there from austin. Ollie is better of the 2 but cant hurt. elijah can hurt with space but cant find space most times because he is sooo slow.

Haynes was and is a low cost prayer bet that worked out. Derksen the same. Young the same. He keeps rolling the long shot dice for that role. If you want to talk Dean and give Austin credit, then he waited 5 years for him killing the current build....Dean in all truthfulness is just there and forced on him. If Dean was another name from another club Austin would have completely ignored him and kept on with Young as his second key back with Derksen/Haynes. This is the nuanced bit IMO.

HoF is another low draft capital prayer bet that may or may not come off. KPP players 30+ are low ball. The overspend on Jagga means you don't have that pick 18-25 to pick up a more sure thing in defence. Its the cost of the all in on Jagga selection. Same if you want a small forward on any ability.

Frankie is another prayer bet that may disappear. Remember he has been playing for years with lots of zeros against his name and now 4-5 good weeks at the back end of Carlton's dead rubber late games. What chance is Carlton to invest in a Charlie Cameron type small forward? Over the last 5 years it seems zero chance!

Byrne another long shot but i like him so far. Moir is awful to me personally and a complete waste and frivolous pick screaming i have no idea in that year.

The overspends on Dean/Jagga and soon Walker is leaving us short handed in the 18-25 listspots. I'd agree Austin is a ;ittle at the mercy of the market but Jagga is important use of 2 first rounders when Dean/Walker were always coming.

I like the moneyball of Hayward and Ainsworth because they are proven. I like he didnt pay TDK to stay. I like Jagga and Dean. I like Dean a lot. I dont like the price of either.

Austin paid full price if ont overs for Saad as well. He paid full price for Cerra. Not a bad thing but he hasnt really engineered anything special either. I fully hold my hands up with Cerra; id of paid same price. Non stop injured at Carlton but mostly ok at Freo. Carlton suck there too.

Kennedy left for next to nothing but is a mainstay of the doggies current side. And this is the plight we are in.

Charlie...fair price to me given we just disabled any chance of a good forward line with a decent coach.

 

[Cringle]

If we have Dean, O'Farrell and Young as our tall defenders could we use Jacob as trade collatoral?
if so what would we expect as a return?

Rebuild or not - I don’t think shipping off your most important player regardless of age is the way to rebuild these days.

You still need to maintain a competitive core group of senior players.

Weitering, McKay and Cripps stay for me - they won’t see a premiership but they’ll be one club players leading the next group.

 

[Psychochook]

If we have Dean, O'Farrell and Young as our tall defenders could we use Jacob as trade collatoral?
if so what would we expect as a return?

No way.

Check his life membership smile.

 

[TheKing101]

The reality is sos ****ed us hard. Those high end picks he blew on Dow, O’brien, sps etc set us back so far. He does not have a keen eye for talent and is too stubborn to accept he got it wrong. Hence why he tries trading for players he drafted at other clubs.

He said it’s easy to make a list that makes finals but doesn’t contend. Well that’s exactly what he did.

Not to mention he tried to throw the kitchen sink at Shiel and cogs. What a disaster that would have been.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

In a general sense that's probably right. But I think there are years where the top is stacked, and one pick in the top 5 would be more valuable. Other years when it's more even and you'd want more later picks.

I think 2024 was one of those 'stacked top' years. Lalor, FOS and Jagga all look like stars, but there's a clear drop from there (barring Levi Ashcroft)

Langford in that top 5 group…

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

I think you're right. And I think it has been a theme for a long time, Carlton selecting "best of breed" types and only ever seeing them as that one thing. We haven't valued, or developed, true versatility and in-game flexibility.

Even our "stars" are each only one thing:

• Cripps is an inside midfielder - could never move to HBF or wing. Has shown glimpses up forward (where I would like to see him play more and more, to be honest).
• Walsh is a hard-running link up midfielder - would seem to lack footskills to play behind ball, marking/nous to play forward.
• Weitering is a tall lockdown defender - never really gets freed up to play a more creative, attacking role. Doesn't provide run. Doesn't swing forward.
• Etc

That's not to say those guys aren't good and valuable at their thing - and not everyone needs to be a Swiss Army knife. But I'd argue we don't have a single player who is effective in more than one position, really.

Why hasn't Saad been tried on the wing? Or Walsh at HBF to provide overlap run? Why are none of our midfielders capable of playing forward and being a threat? Williams and McGovern being unreliable both ahead and behind the ball does not equal flexibility.

As a team, as a club, as a list, as a coaching group... we have Plan A, which looks fine on paper, but doesn't survive first contact with the enemy.

Not sure Saad has ever had the tank for a winger, Walsh not made to play halfback, wing & outside midfield…