3-0-75

[Bazzar]

Was a mistake to make an internal plan public, but thats what this club is about as it desperately tries to create some feel good propaganda, just like the latest "we are on record as saying we will be big players this trade and draft period"

Its the latest in a long line of fakes.

Thats not what i asked. Give your summary of the plan.

 

[Reckoner Tiger]

Where is the cold evidence that says that we won't be twice as good next year as we are this year, following the pattern of doubling our quality from last year?

I swear to God, I've said it before and I'll say it again...after a loss or two, the people on this board become clinically insane.

 

[gaelictiogar]

Just giving up hey! It's that easy!!!!
Doubt Damien Hardwick (in his 2nd year), Cotch, Tyrone, Jack, Benny Griffiths, Astbury, Rance, Grimesy, Helbig, Batchelor, Conca and Lids will lose any sleep over you quitting because the going got tough! Well at least you can't have a crack at any Richmond players for lack of effort!!!!

No. Not "just giving up" and no it is not "easy". the most useless club in Australian pro sport has been trading on loyalty for decades and getting away with blue murder. The Bombers were right last year. Just don't accept the crap.

I have long supported the club and still do but i am utterly sick of the false dawns and the bullshit that spews out of the RFC. The past month has been spectacularly awful even by our pitiful standards. It's just not fair. Why do we have to put up with this shit year after year.

 

[MightyTiger]

No. Not "just giving up" and no it is not "easy". the most useless club in Australian pro sport has been trading on loyalty for decades and getting away with blue murder. The Bombers were right last year. Just don't accept the crap.

I have long supported the club and still do but i am utterly sick of the false dawns and the bullshit that spews out of the RFC. The past month has been spectacularly awful even by our pitiful standards. It's just not fair. Why do we have to put up with this shit year after year.

Then go support them.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

No. Not "just giving up" and no it is not "easy". the most useless club in Australian pro sport has been trading on loyalty for decades and getting away with blue murder. The Bombers were right last year. Just don't accept the crap.

I have long supported the club and still do but i am utterly sick of the false dawns and the bullshit that spews out of the RFC. The past month has been spectacularly awful even by our pitiful standards. It's just not fair. Why do we have to put up with this shit year after year.

It hasn't been a great month but you seem to have to swallowed the hype a lot more than most.
We were always going to hit flat spots and we do a heap wrong on and off field still but we've seen far far worse.

And I certainly wouldn't be holding up Essendon as the great example.They seem to me to be guilty of some of our past sins,filling holes and wall papering
over cracks to appease supporters.I don't see a very bright future there.

 

[TheProwler]

No. Not "just giving up" and no it is not "easy". the most useless club in Australian pro sport has been trading on loyalty for decades and getting away with blue murder. The Bombers were right last year. Just don't accept the crap.

I have long supported the club and still do but i am utterly sick of the false dawns and the bullshit that spews out of the RFC. The past month has been spectacularly awful even by our pitiful standards. It's just not fair. Why do we have to put up with this shit year after year.

We "The Richmond Faithful" have come to far to throw in the towel now just because we have had a crap month of footy. Prior to the Blues game we were travelling okay for a club 18 months into a new coach but you ask too much too soon. Hardwick inherited an awful list of blokes who had so many deficiencies that it is just not possible to turn around in just a season and a half.

Is Hardwick the coach to take us to our next flag? Is Benny the bloke to drive our club back up from the depths of debt? I don't know that answer but hell I am going to give them a fair go and when they came on board I expected there to be some tough times ahead but if there is any glimmer of hope then you only need to look at how the Eagles have managed to take a wooden spoon into a top four this year with much the same list.

We arent the only club to have struggled in recent times, yes our finals record for the past two decades is abysmal but we cant change that now. Look at the Saints & the dogs who have only had the ultimate prize once and the Dockers who have never won one.............. Lets sitck to the plan of 3-0-75 and give it a crack, not just jump off 6 months into it because our recent history says we cant do it, back Benny, Dimma and the rest of the group to get the best out of our current list and add to it, join up and get along and support the team as often as you can and enjoy being part of the reason for our next ulitmate sucess

 

[tigerT]

Thats not what i asked. Give your summary of the plan.

Its a fake, rubbish.

You cannot put a timeline on exact improvement in this competition. Malcolm Blight and Leigh Matthews have always said as much. You plan but dont set in stone a precise building plan bc sometimes it may come on quicker than expected so u need to be ready and sometimes it takes longer - for this reason i think it was suicide to publicly mention how many finals campaigns we expect to play by 2014 when we are clearly replacing more than half a list in that time. How can you possibly gauge how the draftees will come on? Ridiculous statement.

As for the debt and members, its all linked in together, keep dishing up the current tripe and they have zero chance of achieving either

 

[Ty German]

3-0-75? Sounds more like our win-loss ratio for the past 5 years. Or perhaps the ratio of good players to duds we have recruited in the past 5 yrs.

 

[mitch richmond]

We "The Richmond Faithful" have come to far to throw in the towel now just because we have had a crap month of footy. Prior to the Blues game we were travelling okay for a club 18 months into a new coach but you ask too much too soon. Hardwick inherited an awful list of blokes who had so many deficiencies that it is just not possible to turn around in just a season and a half.

Is Hardwick the coach to take us to our next flag? Is Benny the bloke to drive our club back up from the depths of debt? I don't know that answer but hell I am going to give them a fair go and when they came on board I expected there to be some tough times ahead but if there is any glimmer of hope then you only need to look at how the Eagles have managed to take a wooden spoon into a top four this year with much the same list.

We arent the only club to have struggled in recent times, yes our finals record for the past two decades is abysmal but we cant change that now. Look at the Saints & the dogs who have only had the ultimate prize once and the Dockers who have never won one.............. Lets sitck to the plan of 3-0-75 and give it a crack, not just jump off 6 months into it because our recent history says we cant do it, back Benny, Dimma and the rest of the group to get the best out of our current list and add to it, join up and get along and support the team as often as you can and enjoy being part of the reason for our next ulitmate sucess

Great post Prowler!

 

[mitch richmond]

It hasn't been a great month but you seem to have to swallowed the hype a lot more than most.
We were always going to hit flat spots and we do a heap wrong on and off field still but we've seen far far worse.

And I certainly wouldn't be holding up Essendon as the great example.They seem to me to be guilty of some of our past sins,filling holes and wall papering
over cracks to appease supporters.I don't see a very bright future there.[/quote]

Agree. I was copping it from Essendon supporters at work and I pointed out that we beat them 7 games ago. Yes useless, struggling, joke of a club Richmond beat Essendon 7 games ago. Idiots! Also surprised how much good publicity they're getting for knocking off Adelaide (they're sitting 14th with a massive 4 wins/11 losses).

 

[Lana]

Short term plans can only lead to pain, If you look at all the Cats 2007, Hawthorne 2008, collingwood 2010 you begin to see a pattern. Thee list took a decade plus to build and having the right mix of older veterns, players in thje 23-27 bracket and a few tallented youngsters. At the same time these teams all brought in experienced players from other teams a risking the future to go for the premiership by plugging holes. While Richmond can get deep into the finals with a early leap( geelong did this 2004-5) they won't be a serious contender until there current crop of tallented youngsters Cotchin Vickery Martin Griffiths Conca and others(you richmond supporters know your own young players better then I do) get to the 100-150 games worth of experience. Thats when richomond will have the right mix of experience with you current players in the 23-25 age range approching 200 games. In the next 3 years richomond could clear 15-20 players off there primary list. As long as your drafting isnt as bad as 2004-5 and stops picking up dead wood from other teams richomd's main issue of lack of player experience will fix itself with time. Once Richmond clears its finacial debt with the future fund it will be in a good position to seriously chalange for the premiership well before the end of the decade.

 

[tugga]

Short term plans can only lead to pain, If you look at all the Cats 2007, Hawthorne 2008, collingwood 2010 you begin to see a pattern. Thee list took a decade plus to build and having the right mix of older veterns, players in thje 23-27 bracket and a few tallented youngsters. At the same time these teams all brought in experienced players from other teams a risking the future to go for the premiership by plugging holes. While Richmond can get deep into the finals with a early leap( geelong did this 2004-5) they won't be a serious contender until there current crop of tallented youngsters Cotchin Vickery Martin Griffiths Conca and others(you richmond supporters know your own young players better then I do) get to the 100-150 games worth of experience. Thats when richomond will have the right mix of experience with you current players in the 23-25 age range approching 200 games. In the next 3 years richomond could clear 15-20 players off there primary list. As long as your drafting isnt as bad as 2004-5 and stops picking up dead wood from other teams richomd's main issue of lack of player experience will fix itself with time. Once Richmond clears its finacial debt with the future fund it will be in a good position to seriously chalange for the premiership well before the end of the decade.

WHy does it take an opposition supporter to spell it out so clearly?

 

[Catsace]

Was listening to SEN today and were discussing Richmond, and in all honesty the problem is mainly the paucity of output from the drafts of 2001-2005. Looking at the AFL season's guide and seeing who is still on the list from those five drafts is ghastly reading and given these players would make up a core group with between 100-200 games of experience by now it's a handicap that cannot be undone overnight.

No player from the 2001 draft is on the Tiger's list, and only David Rodan is still on an AFL list.

2002 was the year Kane Johnson was traded for, and you were doubly penalised as the Carlton penalty effectively doubled your payment for Johnson, pick 4 became pick 2. As it is, only Jay Schultz (Port) still exists on an AFL list from that draft for the Tigers.

2003 was a poor draft year, with only Cooney really being considered a star. Shane Tuck and Daniel Jackson are the only ones remaining with the Tigers from that year, i will admit Nathan Brown was looking like an inspired trade until his horrible leg injury that ruined his later career much like what happened with Barry Stoneham at Geelong.

2004 sees only #1 pick Deledio remain from the five picks inside the top 20, and Luke McGuane remains with the Tigers at pick 36. Dean Polo is the only other player on an AFL list now at St.Kilda.

2005 saw just three players drafted, with JON at pick 8 a complete bust. Hughes and Casserly are long gone, although as a Cat fan i still remember Hughes kicking 3 in the 2007 game and thinking he looks good. Did he get given enough opportunity as a KPP?

So there's the story. Essentially just Brett Deledio from five seasons of drafting (not including rookies, whom i haven't included with this summary) and McGuane who would be regulars. No side could have a strong list when the demographic guts is simply missinsg from a side over a 5 year period. All things being equal you would expect maybe 10-12 solid citizens over such a period, i mean Geelong still has 8 from the '99 and '01 draft classes. Those players make up the core of the side.

So all the Tigers can really do is just accumulate picks and players in the next few years and build a side. Jack Reiwoldt is the first of the new breed so to speak to prosper, he is surely injured this year as he is a star. Cotchin in 2007, Martin in 2009 and the side is starting to take shape. But the disappointments of games like the Blues and the Gold Coast unfortunately will happen as the list is just so incomplete. Carlton whinge about being denied in the 2002 and 2003 drafts, which were at best moderate for talent, Richmond could essentially say that they've been penalised for 5 drafts. It took the Blues some serious tanking and dealing to accumulate a swathe of #1 picks, something the Tigers have been denied due to mid-table finishes. And it took the Blues 4-5 years to begin to turn it around as they started to do in 2008.

Tiger fans just have to stick fat, it's not really a culture thing it's just that the list relies perhaps more so than any side's on the best players. I mean of the real Jack Riewoldt of 2010 was playing on the weekend it would be goobye Suns and most likley Port. But with the few stars you have down on form/confidence or carrying injury there's precious little to pick up the slack. As unpleasant as it is, bad performances and wild form fluctuations will happen until the list is filled out, and the demographic black hole of 2001-2005 is worked out of the system.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

3 wins 0 flags 75 members. I think we are on track.

Was a mistake to make an internal plan public, but thats what this club is about as it desperately tries to create some feel good propaganda, just like the latest "we are on record as saying we will be big players this trade and draft period"

Its the latest in a long line of fakes.

Two under-rated posts.

 

[tigerT]

some good posts by cats supporters, these types are always welcome on these boards but look at it from our perspective. You mention it takes the best part of a decade to put together premiership lists - I agree.... however how do we know we are putting together a good/decent list that will play finals? We have 4-5 potential a-graders no arguments there but we fall away alarmingly after that and there are question marks or lines through nearly 20 names on our list. Our track record of developing these guys into footballers is pathetic - the confidence of a lot of supporters is just about shot.

Also, Collingwood, Hawthorn and Geelong(throw in Stkilda and the bulldogs who have been thereabts on a similar decade long buildup) all have one thing in common that we don't - ALL sides showed something early on in the piece - hawks played a prelim in 2001, went south and rebounded with about 12 players from that era. Collingwood played in 2003-04 GF went south and rebounded. Geelong and Saints played prelims 2 years in a row, fell into a bit of a rut and exploded into contention. Bulldogs similarly were up, then went down and rebounded. We are just perenially CRAP and havent shown squat. We dont keep players from previous eras bc our drafting and development is so bad none are worth keeping. How do we know its changed?

So i listen to these types of msgs from our club and high as a kite supporters with a high degree of cynicism. Just have to shake my head - yep I reckon Im done

 

[Catsace]

some good posts by cats supporters, these types are always welcome on these boards but look at it from our perspective. You mention it takes the best part of a decade to put together premiership lists - I agree.... however how do we know we are putting together a good/decent list that will play finals? We have 4-5 potential a-graders no arguments there but we fall away alarmingly after that and there are question marks or lines through nearly 20 names on our list. Our track record of developing these guys into footballers is pathetic - the confidence of a lot of supporters is just about shot.

Also, Collingwood, Hawthorn and Geelong(throw in Stkilda and the bulldogs who have been thereabts on a similar decade long buildup) all have one thing in common that we don't - ALL sides showed something early on in the piece - hawks played a prelim in 2001, went south and rebounded with about 12 players from that era. Collingwood played in 2003-04 GF went south and rebounded. Geelong and Saints played prelims 2 years in a row, fell into a bit of a rut and exploded into contention. Bulldogs similarly were up, then went down and rebounded. We are just perenially CRAP and havent shown squat. We dont keep players from previous eras bc our drafting and development is so bad none are worth keeping. How do we know its changed?

So i listen to these types of msgs from our club and high as a kite supporters with a high degree of cynicism. Just have to shake my head - yep I reckon Im done

I guess it's easier to say look on the bright side when there has been brightness from our sides, but the Tigers have come from a place i don't think anyone has ever done in the history of the draft. To essentially have a five year gap in the core age of your side is something the powers that be when formulating the draft idea in 1986 would never have thought possible.

Geelong did have players like Riccardi, Ben Graham, King, McGrath, Sanderson and Sholl in their sides of the early 2000's, and that probably helped the side avoid a complete bombing out. St.Kilda got two KPP's in the one year with Kosi and Reiwoldt much like Hawthorn did with Franklin and Roughead which certainly helps out as well. Richo was really the only big bloke who could hold his own for much of the last 15 years, and i can't really explain how so many of the KPP's like Schultz, Hughes, Pattison etc just didn't really develop.

But it's happened now and those five drafts are water under the bridge. I am sure Hardwick and co know the enormity of the task at hand. If anything it might be sort of like what Brisbane had to do from the late 80's, as the original Bears had mainly a group of journeyman mid-age players in their formative time in the 80's and it took until the early 90's and the advent of identifying young talent that saw them draft players like Buckley, Voss, Leppitsch, McCrae, White and others that ultimately saw them become a power over a period of 4-5 years. The Bears did have that Geelong-like window of 1996-97 where they made the finals for a couple of years before a spoon in 1998, but of course by the late 90's they had also digested Fitzroy's best and that's a helping hand the Tigers cannot get.

But my point is that Richmond's list, where it is now can only really be compared in a modern context to what Brisbane's list was like say in 1993 or so. You at least have some young stars, and just have to try and draft cannily for the next few drafts and build a side. It's hard and the light at the end of the tunnel might look a long way away, but at least the side has shown it can play good footy. I mean, you did lead Essendon 10 goals to 6 the week after they beat us.....there is talent at the Tigers. I will say there is most likely zero confidence now, but the fans just have to stay the journey and have faith that it can be turned around. Did Freo get beat a couple of years ago though by Adelaide 130-13? They are in the 8 now. Change can happen quicker than you think.

 

[Lana]

some good posts by cats supporters, these types are always welcome on these boards but look at it from our perspective. You mention it takes the best part of a decade to put together premiership lists - I agree.... however how do we know we are putting together a good/decent list that will play finals? We have 4-5 potential a-graders no arguments there but we fall away alarmingly after that and there are question marks or lines through nearly 20 names on our list. Our track record of developing these guys into footballers is pathetic - the confidence of a lot of supporters is just about shot.

Also, Collingwood, Hawthorn and Geelong(throw in Stkilda and the bulldogs who have been thereabts on a similar decade long buildup) all have one thing in common that we don't - ALL sides showed something early on in the piece - hawks played a prelim in 2001, went south and rebounded with about 12 players from that era. Collingwood played in 2003-04 GF went south and rebounded. Geelong and Saints played prelims 2 years in a row, fell into a bit of a rut and exploded into contention. Bulldogs similarly were up, then went down and rebounded. We are just perenially CRAP and havent shown squat. We dont keep players from previous eras bc our drafting and development is so bad none are worth keeping. How do we know its changed?

So i listen to these types of msgs from our club and high as a kite supporters with a high degree of cynicism. Just have to shake my head - yep I reckon Im done

That's Richmond's problem... the culling at the end of the Wallace regime coupled with poor drafting early in the last decade has created a lack of experience which will take time to get over. The only thing that will speed the process is blooding youngster who themselves will be the experience for other youngsters down the track. Trading for players won't solve the problem as when you trade for experienced player you usually pay overs compared to drafting a similar player and waiting for them to mature. Trading isn't the solution for a rebuild as you are unlikely to get quality young for cheap.Trading for quality mature players should only be done as the finishing touches to go for the premiership in the short term as you have already built up a list and can afford giving up long term youth for short term class.

There is no quick solution for Richmond's issues only good drafting and patience. Richmond will show the early signs you talk about in the next couple of years that's when
you will know that Richmond is heading in the right direction.