Player Watch 32 Travis Cloke

[neilk]

If Reid and Brown fail to come up stick Trav down back to help Frost. We have no other options as KPD if we want to maintain our current forward structure.

 

[Royal Flash]

On form it wasn't the right, he was outperforming Moore before he was dropped.

Debatable but the fact is Cloke supposedly was our number 1 forward and one of our highest paid marquee players and he was barely out performing a second year kid and he likely wasn't if you factor in effort indicators as well. If you're justifying his position based on being less poor than a vastly more inexperienced player who isn't the number 1 forward anyway then you really are clutching at straws.

Cloke was playing shithouse by any measure and we've looked more potent forward since he was dropped and Darcys's form has improved as well. Coincidence? Who can tell but Travis needs to do a lot more than a zero goal, zero tackles reserves performance before he's earned a senior recall no matter how good he used to be.

 

[AmellyPies]

If Reid and Brown fail to come up stick Trav down back to help Frost. We have no other options as KPD if we want to maintain our current forward structure.

Yeah lets chuck a no confident player who's never played defence before in the deep end. So dumb, Just keep him out.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

But then again he took 7 marks and got 19 disposals, the only thing he didn't do was kick straight and that's always been a problem for him even in his AA years.

12 disposals according to the Age

 

[PicaBoo]

Yeah lets chuck a no confident player who's never played defence before in the deep end. So dumb, Just keep him out.

I don't think he meant in the deep but in the VFL. And there is some merit to it. Worked with Fasolo and so far with White it hasn't been a failure either. Let him run around and play without the pressure of having to score. Those goals will come back later on he has mindset right again.

 

[Soaring Magpie]

If Reid and Brown fail to come up stick Trav down back to help Frost. We have no other options as KPD if we want to maintain our current forward structure.

What a great idea

 

[left at home]

On form it wasn't the right, he was outperforming Moore before he was dropped.

statics yes, 1% no. the effort by travis was just not there. was not there in preseason training, inter club, nab and the season proper. some thing had to give
l want back in the seniors but till he right and in some decent form now

 

[sirlothie]

Next time he gets a shot in the goalsquare he should go back 50 metres and across 30. Play the percentages.

 

[mike123]

statics yes, 1% no. the effort by travis was just not there. was not there in preseason training, inter club, nab and the season proper. some thing had to give
l want back in the seniors but till he right and in some decent form now

I agree the effort wasn't there, but I don't think he deserved to be dropped on that when there were plenty of others who also didn't put in and continue not to.

 

[sirlothie]

If Reid and Brown fail to come up stick Trav down back to help Frost. We have no other options as KPD if we want to maintain our current forward structure.

Don't think he could do it.

 

[doodles98]

I agree the effort wasn't there, but I don't think he deserved to be dropped on that when there were plenty of others who also didn't put in and continue not to.

Effort, or more importantly the visible lack of it, is hugely important. It can't be tolerated.. simple as that. Especially from a senior player who is being paid the most money in the team. I think you continually over-rate his output before he got dropped too.. it was poor in terms of impact and doing whats he's there to do (kick goals)... and it was a long term trend with him. Something had to be done and the club made the right call imo. Getting games into Cox and Moore has it's own significant upside too.

 

[left at home]

I agree the effort wasn't there, but I don't think he deserved to be dropped on that when there were plenty of others who also didn't put in and continue not to.

l agree there were many that could gone as well, but if the effort is not there and you don't drop him when do you. and what will that
have on the rest on the team

 

[Royal Flash]

I was just watching the round 2 2013 game against Carlton (Malthouses first game against us) and I paid particular interest on Cloke. He was held goalless and beaten on the day by Jamieson but his workrate, presence, contest and bash and crash was outstanding and something that has been completely devoid from his game from about midway last season.

This is what he needs to get back into his game but I fear that something is NQR in Trav's mind at present and I think it runs deeper than being a bit off his game. He looks like a bloke who isn't enjoying his football and isn't enjoying his teammates or club. It's quite sad for a guy who was elite not that long ago but the call on dropping him was completely correct.

 

[Gone Critical]

I was just watching the round 2 2013 game against Carlton (Malthouses first game against us) and I paid particular interest on Cloke. He was held goalless and beaten on the day by Jamieson but his workrate, presence, contest and bash and crash was outstanding and something that has been completely devoid from his game from about midway last season.

This is what he needs to get back into his game but I fear that something is NQR in Trav's mind at present and I think it runs deeper than being a bit off his game. He looks like a bloke who isn't enjoying his football and isn't enjoying his teammates or club. It's quite sad for a guy who was elite not that long ago but the call on dropping him was completely correct.

I do wonder whether there is something else going on with Trav outside footy. It might be the explanation.

The other thing I would query with you is the belief Cloke dropped hard work and presence from about midway last year. I think Travs season in 2015 was much better than people remember and the calf injury he sustained against WCE was what stopped him not effort. In the 5 games immediately before the injury, rounds 10-15, Cloke polled Brownlow votes in 2 of them including a 3 vote game and was named in the best players in 2 of the others (Hawks and Freo, the 2 top sides at the time). So he was only out of the best players in 1 game of those 5.

Come WCE game and he was injured early in the 1st Q and had no stats that day. He missed 3 weeks, came back for 2 games where he didn't do very well and seemed still restricted by the injury. This was probably confirmed by him then missing the final 2 games. Pre injury Cloke was playing very well, especially the few rounds just prior to him going out. He was on target for a 50 goal season, not his best year but pretty good nonetheless.

For me it's only been 2016 where he was clearly struggling a bit. Based on his history I thought he deserved more chance to set things right unless of course something is happening in the background we are not aware of.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

I do wonder whether there is something else going on with Trav outside footy. It might be the explanation.

The other thing I would query with you is the belief Cloke dropped hard work and presence from about midway last year. I think Travs season in 2015 was much better than people remember and the calf injury he sustained against WCE was what stopped him not effort. In the 5 games immediately before the injury, rounds 10-15, Cloke polled Brownlow votes in 2 of them including a 3 vote game and was named in the best players in 2 of the others (Hawks and Freo, the 2 top sides at the time). So he was only out of the best players in 1 game of those 5.

Come WCE game and he was injured early in the 1st Q and had no stats that day. He missed 3 weeks, came back for 2 games where he didn't do very well and seemed still restricted by the injury. This was probably confirmed by him then missing the final 2 games. Pre injury Cloke was playing very well, especially the few rounds just prior to him going out. He was on target for a 50 goal season, not his best year but pretty good nonetheless.

For me it's only been 2016 where he was clearly struggling a bit. Based on his history I thought he deserved more chance to set things right unless of course something is happening in the background we are not aware of.

I agree with most of what you say, but how much time would you give him? And how much time would you give him when the entire club is struggling and there is increased pressure on everything?
Buckley kept talking about our defensive pressure, and he kept talking about how it starts with the forwards.
Whatever peoples opinions on Bucks or on the gameplan, it was clear when people weren't doing what was being asked (which was a lot of the time) our entire defence was exposed. I do not blame Cloke for that, nor would he alone be able to change it... but he was a symbol of it, and arguably the worst (and at a position that then opened up an easy string of play for the opposition). Clearly he bore the brunt because the team is out of form, but I would argue that he deserved it more than most (and that no-one should be immune when you are playing this badly)... and that until he shows that effort at VFL level he doesn't have much right pulling on an AFL Jersey.

 

[Deleted member 133504]

I agree with most of what you say, but how much time would you give him? And how much time would you give him when the entire club is struggling and there is increased pressure on everything?
Buckley kept talking about our defensive pressure, and he kept talking about how it starts with the forwards.
Whatever peoples opinions on Bucks or on the gameplan, it was clear when people weren't doing what was being asked (which was a lot of the time) our entire defence was exposed. I do not blame Cloke for that, nor would he alone be able to change it... but he was a symbol of it, and arguably the worst (and at a position that then opened up an easy string of play for the opposition). Clearly he bore the brunt because the team is out of form, but I would argue that he deserved it more than most (and that no-one should be immune when you are playing this badly)... and that until he shows that effort at VFL level he doesn't have much right pulling on an AFL Jersey.

This is irrelevant to Clokey, but how are you copping since the Spurs got done? Wifey is an S.A. local, and we are shattered. F**k the OKC!!

Moving on. Cloke looked almost angry when he kicked a couple of goals in the NAB cup from the square, as is he was crook none of the blokes were passing it to him. Bucks must have used him as a witch's hat, with a magnet to draw all the opposition players out like flies to sh*t.

Bucks might have told the VFL side to avoid kicking it to him too. He is going to go down as the better of the Cloke brothers, but David's sperm was never much quality obviously. I think they had a sister or two that probably would beat Travis one on one these days.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

This is irrelevant to Clokey, but how are you copping since the Spurs got done? Wifey is an S.A. local, and we are shattered. F**k the OKC!!

Pretty shattered (more for Timmy than anyone else)... but not angry at OKC. Durant and Westbrook are ****ing good players and have been unlucky (/poor coaching/teammates) to not get the ultimate success. It looks bad on paper/numbers but in reality it shouldn't be seen as a massive failure to lose to these guys... and I doubt either of us would get past GSW. (although... if Cleveland get the finals in form, fully healthy, and with plenty of rest, all of which are likely, they would actually be a change against a GSW team who should at least be challenged by OKC in the form they are in now).

 

[Horaceg]

If you get dropped you need to earn your way back, four points is not the return you'd expect from a very highly paid and capable key forward. Somethings not right, in some ways I hope it's an attitude issue and not something more serious.

 

[Kappa]

If you get dropped you need to earn your way back, four points is not the return you'd expect from a very highly paid and capable key forward. Somethings not right, in some ways I hope it's an attitude issue and not something more serious.

What else could it be?

He's completely given up. You could see it in his last AFL game before being dropped.. there were times his effort was so token it pretty much didn't exist.. it was pathetic

 

[Dynamics]

Saw that miss from right in front. Trav's goal kicking is poor, that's no mystery, but that has to be evidence that something is amiss in his head.

We need to persist and get him through it though, rather than contemplate cutting him loose. Even if he only got back to 70% of his former effectiveness that's a massive chop out for Cox and Moore.

We're all just speculating so I'll have my own guess. I wonder if the pressure of that money and the expectations associated with it are weighing him down. He's a sensitive bloke, prone to introspection... Maybe he is stumbling under the pressure of being the underperforming key player on the most money and it's all just snowballing in him. Combine that with any sort of personal issues and you could find yourself fighting some major self-doubt.

 

[Kappa]

Saw that miss from right in front. Trav's goal kicking is poor, that's no mystery, but that has to be evidence that something is amiss in his head.

We need to persist and get him through it though, rather than contemplate cutting him loose. Even if he only got back to 70% of his former effectiveness that's a massive chop out for Cox and Moore.

We're all just speculating so I'll have my own guess. I wonder if the pressure of that money and the expectations associated with it are weighing him down. He's a sensitive bloke, prone to introspection... Maybe he is stumbling under the pressure of being the underperforming key player on the most money and it's all just snowballing in him. Combine that with any sort of personal issues and you could find yourself fighting some major self-doubt.

His constant inability to kick goals from 10-20 metres out directly in front shows he is very mentally weak.

Crumbles under pressure

 

[Gone Critical]

Bizarre is something no one expects. 90% if the footy world knew he needed a circuit breaker.

Bizarre is something strange or unusual not something no one expects.

E.g As expected the eccentric next door neighbour arrived with another bizarre haircut.

 

[Gone Critical]

I agree with most of what you say, but how much time would you give him? And how much time would you give him when the entire club is struggling and there is increased pressure on everything?
Buckley kept talking about our defensive pressure, and he kept talking about how it starts with the forwards.
Whatever peoples opinions on Bucks or on the gameplan, it was clear when people weren't doing what was being asked (which was a lot of the time) our entire defence was exposed. I do not blame Cloke for that, nor would he alone be able to change it... but he was a symbol of it, and arguably the worst (and at a position that then opened up an easy string of play for the opposition). Clearly he bore the brunt because the team is out of form, but I would argue that he deserved it more than most (and that no-one should be immune when you are playing this badly)... and that until he shows that effort at VFL level he doesn't have much right pulling on an AFL Jersey.

It's a good question. l would have given more time assuming this issue is only form related. I think the matches he played were very difficult for forwards as the team was playing so badly and skills so poor. The Swans match was one where no forward had a chance really.

If you needed to make the point I feel it's been made. Without having seen the game at Geelong on the WE it's sounds a dour low scoring affair with poor skills, pretty much a carbon copy of every match he has been involved in this year. 19 possessions, 7 marks , 4 scoring shots means he seems to have worked pretty hard. His problem this week is the seniors won in a canter where they could do as they liked. Had Cloke been in Brisbane he would have got plenty of the ball.

I would bring him back this week for the sake of the team, for his own sake maybe he is better to stay in the 2's another 2 matches. Geelong and Dogs have the potential to get pretty ugly as games and if we suffer big losses it might just highlight the benefits Moore and Cox would have if he was around

 

[Unknown Identity]

I seriously hope he doesn't make his way back into the team due to a personnel shortage.

This should have been a rocket up his ass but his same lack of enthusiasm is evident in the two's..

Ive heard Bucks talk about him needing to find his love for the game again.. clearly there is an issue between the ears, whether it be a personal issue or an issue with the club.

He needs a fresh start.. if a decent offer presents itself i would trade him with his blessing. Every chance he'll leave for nothing at the end of next season.

 

[doodles98]

I think Bucks is right about Trav needing to find his love of and hunger for the game again. I don't think he can do that right now in the VFL though. I think the best thing to do would be to give Trav a couple of weeks off or even a month. Tell him to go away from the club and stay out of contact.. go overseas or whatever.. make up a dodgy back injury excuse to cover it. See if a bit of absence can make the heart grow fonder and freshen him up.