Player Watch #33: Kamdyn McIntosh - Delisted

[Muddiemoose]

Has not played a VFL game in 3 years, so your stats are a little misleading. Pretty much an automatic choice.

It’s not as if we have had any real alternatives
Ross has only grown into the role this year and Pickett played on the opposite wing to Kmac previously

They tried Stack and Caddy in the role along with Parker last year

HRS isn’t really up to it and completely lacks and defensive game so if we are playing a defensive winger Kmac still easily the best choice and Ross the best choice as the more offensive type and plenty of room to have both in the side since you need at least two wingers in the side

 

[Grrr]

Which must tell you something.

That younger players will be dropped before him, yes it does, which was the point of richplzbleed's comment. They dropped Ross two weeks ago, he was lucky that Bauer injured himself or he would be perhaps back in the VFL right now and he has been better than MacIntosh this year.

I have been in MacIntosh's corner basically as I see the good work he does/team structures etc and think his disposal is nowhere near as bad as posters make out. But his 8 disposal game was poor by his standards, and before that 10 and 11 in the last 5 weeks. So he is just going.

 

[Del65166]

So you playing footy for long enough in today's AFL system, please understand that the system broke down leaving Mac in a position where his own pillory was the outcome. In this play his team mates inactions made mac look foolish. A match review will point this out to the team. 6, 6, 6 and "chips" is in play, Stringer has an opponent somewhere.

Mac will reviewed less favorably for disposals that were turned over to the opposition.

I watched some local footy the other day. I couldn't believe how pro. one team was. Setting up 18 players across the field. Like a Clarko's cluster. Just dominated the local Tiges team unfortunately.
And kicking and marking skills to carry it off.

Kmac's opponent got a lot of the ball. Ross didn't get it as much as usual and didn't kick a goal. Kmac kicked one.
The team are winning and we have 5 or 6 role players. Kmac is not winning or losing us games. If we lose one of Kmac or a depth player next year so be it.
Broad to the wing and one of Banks, Brown IN. Or Rioli to wing and Short to back line

 

[Grrr]

It’s not as if we have had any real alternatives
Ross has only grown into the role this year and Pickett played on the opposite wing to Kmac previously

They tried Stack and Caddy in the role along with Parker last year

HRS isn’t really up to it and completely lacks and defensive game so if we are playing a defensive winger Kmac still easily the best choice and Ross the best choice as the more offensive type and plenty of room to have both in the side since you need at least two wingers in the side

I get the team structures thing but we are not exactly playing great footy at the moment. Might be nice to see what some others could do. I think Ross gets back in defence pretty well and would have taken more marks filling in the defensive hole than Mac this of late.

I would like to see what HRS could do with a full game on the wing, I think he has earned it. I do not think he completely lacks a defensive side, he has played some solid games off half back. The same thing was being said about Ross for a long while, that he lacks this or that, but when he got a few games in a row you could see his confidence and ability improve with it.

HRS has some really good attributes that could really hurt sides if he got up and running. Look what Collingwood are doing off half back and wing. They use those positions to attack from, even Markov is getting a regular game because their coach has backed him in. I would back Brown in to come in and play well off the wing, maybe Trezise, Banks, especially against the bottom sides like WC where you can experiment a bit.

Not suggesting we cast Mac aside, would like to see him as the sub for a game or two in the next few weeks. We have been pretty conservative with our team selection all year, nice to see them try something a bit different at times.

 

[Muddiemoose]

I get the team structures thing but we are not exactly playing great footy at the moment. Might be nice to see what some others could do. I think Ross gets back in defence pretty well and would have taken more marks filling in the defensive hole than Mac this of late.

I would like to see what HRS could do with a full game on the wing, I think he has earned it. I do not think he completely lacks a defensive side, he has played some solid games off half back. The same thing was being said about Ross for a long while, that he lacks this or that, but when he got a few games in a row you could see his confidence and ability improve with it.

HRS has some really good attributes that could really hurt sides if he got up and running. Look what Collingwood are doing off half back and wing. They use those positions to attack from, even Markov is getting a regular game because their coach has backed him in. I would back Brown in to come in and play well off the wing, maybe Trezise, Banks, especially against the bottom sides like WC where you can experiment a bit.

Not suggesting we cast Mac aside, would like to see him as the sub for a game or two in the next few weeks. We have been pretty conservative with our team selection all year, nice to see them try something a bit different at times.

Don’t think Markov is a fair comparison for HRS and if anything he is more similar to Kmac

Markov is an elite runner similar to Kmac the only thing similar to HRS is they both share top end speed

The downplaying of Kmac reminds me of the downplaying of Castagna last year and a lot fail to realise his importance is a lot more than just stats on gameday

 

[Grrr]

Don’t think Markov is a fair comparison for HRS and if anything he is more similar to Kmac

Markov is an elite runner similar to Kmac the only thing similar to HRS is they both share top end speed

The downplaying of Kmac reminds me of the downplaying of Castagna last year and a lot fail to realise his importance is a lot more than just stats on gameday

I find the whole role players things a bit overemphasised. Castagna was a good player 2017-19. He marked the ball, he got the ball and he was unpredictable and dynamic, prone to errors, but his positives outweighed his negatives. But when he was no longer a target up forward, mainly due to Lynch coming, he became primarily a defensive player and that wasn't enough. He was pushed up the ground and his skills were not up to it. Caddy was another victim or the same thing, wasn't quick enough to play a second role.

Role players will only get you so far, they need a good team for them to operate in. I have backed Mac in all season, he has played some good games and his experience has been very important structurally. But his form has dropped the last month or so, so why not see what someone else can do for a game or two. As I mentioned, make his sub and see if it stings him into action. Give him a week or two in the VFL and then bring him back, it is what used to happen with players down on form.

If we make the finals I would not be too confident of doing much, we have been average all season. Why not experiment now and see if somone new adds something new.

 

[tiger_tough]

It’s not as if we have had any real alternatives
Ross has only grown into the role this year and Pickett played on the opposite wing to Kmac previously

They tried Stack and Caddy in the role along with Parker last year

HRS isn’t really up to it and completely lacks and defensive game so if we are playing a defensive winger Kmac still easily the best choice and Ross the best choice as the more offensive type and plenty of room to have both in the side since you need at least two wingers in the side

Pickett?

 

[Muddiemoose]

I find the whole role players things a bit overemphasised. Castagna was a good player 2017-19. He marked the ball, he got the ball and he was unpredictable and dynamic, prone to errors, but his positives outweighed his negatives. But when he was no longer a target up forward, mainly due to Lynch coming, he became primarily a defensive player and that wasn't enough. He was pushed up the ground and his skills were not up to it. Caddy was another victim or the same thing, wasn't quick enough to play a second role.

Role players will only get you so far, they need a good team for them to operate in. I have backed Mac in all season, he has played some good games and his experience has been very important structurally. But his form has dropped the last month or so, so why not see what someone else can do for a game or two. As I mentioned, make his sub and see if it stings him into action. Give him a week or two in the VFL and then bring him back, it is what used to happen with players down on form.

If we make the finals I would not be too confident of doing much, we have been average all season. Why not experiment now and see if somone new adds something new.

I think the opposite

Every single team in the comp have stars and top line players and more than one
The difference between the best and worst sides in the comp are competent role players who allow those top line players to not need to focus on doing extra work to make up for the lack of consistency around the rest of the ground

In order for those star players to do those game breaking things you need the role players to run a block for them, run a dummy lead to create space in the forward line , run up and down the fat side of the wing so the oppo team can’t switch the ball with spare numbers, a defender keep an eye on two players so an interceptor can play off and create an outnumber at the contest

 

[juss]

If he does get a renewal for next year (I bet he does as he's one of the coaching and player favourites), I'd have serious concerns if he's any more than a depth/VFL player.

If in 2024 we STILL can't find someone better than him out of Banks, Sonsie, Dow, Brown, Ralphsmith, Mansell, Tresize, Clarke, Green or Campbell or anyone else we draft/trade in I have serious concerns of our side and development of our young players. The same goes with pushing out Pickett and Graham who are in the similar situation.

I know he does the defensive/role stuff, but there's room for doing that stuff and being a more impactful all round player too. Some of those guys need to start forcing their way in to regular and reliable best 22 players or we are in trouble, pushing out some of the old guard.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Pickett?

In a perfect world yes but just creates another issue as well in needing to play with our forward line set ups again and with no real viable options making themselves known it ultimately just means we are reducing our on field experience and flexibility

We should always play our best 22 and until someone is a better option (not a will be better or might be better) Kmac stays in the side imo

 

[Karp3_dm]

Can’t play after last couple weeks patheticness
Surely vs eagles was bell ringing for Macca
VFL time

 

[tiger_tough]

In a perfect world yes but just creates another issue as well in needing to play with our forward line set ups again and with no real viable options making themselves known it ultimately just means we are reducing our on field experience and flexibility

We should always play our best 22 and until someone is a better option (not a will be better or might be better) Kmac stays in the side imo

Cumberland should play forward and Pickett back to the wing.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Cumberland should play forward and Pickett back to the wing.

Agree
But can’t just play Cumbo for the sake of it either
All of Cumbos games this year have unfortunately been sub par for multiple reasons

When Cumbo can play like he belongs I have no doubt that will happen but the only player who can make that happen is Cumbo

 

[tiger_tough]

If he does get a renewal for next year (I bet he does as he's one of the coaching and player favourites), I'd have serious concerns if he's any more than a depth/VFL player.

If in 2024 we STILL can't find someone better than him out of Banks, Sonsie, Dow, Brown, Ralphsmith, Mansell, Tresize, Clarke, Green or Campbell or anyone else we draft/trade in I have serious concerns of our side and development of our young players. The same goes with pushing out Pickett and Graham who are in the similar situation.

I know he does the defensive/role stuff, but there's room for doing that stuff and being a more impactful all round player too. Some of those guys need to start forcing their way in to regular and reliable best 22 players or we are in trouble, pushing out some of the old guard.

Agree. If we can't find an upgrade out of Brown, Banks, Trezise, Ralphmith or Clarke we're in trouble.

 

[Growapair]

In a perfect world yes but just creates another issue as well in needing to play with our forward line set ups again and with no real viable options making themselves known it ultimately just means we are reducing our on field experience and flexibility

We should always play our best 22 and until someone is a better option (not a will be better or might be better) Kmac stays in the side imo

Yes but switch Banks to the wing and Macca to the backline

 

[Grrr]

Agree
But can’t just play Cumbo for the sake of it either
All of Cumbos games this year have unfortunately been sub par for multiple reasons

When Cumbo can play like he belongs I have no doubt that will happen but the only player who can make that happen is Cumbo

Showed some good signs on the weekend, just needs to play more footy at the lower level so he becomes a better all round footballer. Unfortunately for Cumberland he came in last year and set the bar really high and couldn't live up to it this year. Very much like Sonsie they, second year blues.

 

[Grrr]

I think the opposite

Every single team in the comp have stars and top line players and more than one
The difference between the best and worst sides in the comp are competent role players who allow those top line players to not need to focus on doing extra work to make up for the lack of consistency around the rest of the ground

In order for those star players to do those game breaking things you need the role players to run a block for them, run a dummy lead to create space in the forward line , run up and down the fat side of the wing so the oppo team can’t switch the ball with spare numbers, a defender keep an eye on two players so an interceptor can play off and create an outnumber at the contest

It probably lies somewhere between.

 

[richoplzbreed]

McIntosh has been selected in 163 of 248 games Richmond has played since he was drafted. So you are a certain type of correct. Incorrect.

Didn't debut til season 3 and season 4 played 6 games only. That means he only played 28 out of 90 odd games in first 4 seasons. So he's basically played roughly 140 out of 160 since then so that's a constant fixture in the team. Very few would have played as many in that same timeframe when you factor injuries, form, suspensions, personal reasons. Anyone can regurgitate facts and figures, maybe next time try analyzing them champ.

 

[tropicaltiger]

Cumberland should play forward and Pickett back to the wing.

Pickett it goes to Sissy for mine, the bloke normally takes 15 Marks and has 30 possesions.... if Pickett can halve that, cause a few spillages and snag goal or 2 himself again massive advantage for us. room for Cumbo to replace MRJ and Mansell comes in for Banks. Pickett and JR took 15 marks between them V Barass and Govs 11. Dusty and Bolts can also cause havoc and then it's winner winner chicken dinner. Macca stays put or maybe give Sonzs a run and relegate Macca to sub.

 

[TigerImposter]

McIntosh has been selected in 163 of 248 games Richmond has played since he was drafted. So you are a certain type of correct. Incorrect.

Another useless stat as he missed a lot of games early 3 years with injuries. He has been dropped over the course especially 2019 season, but your information again was misleading.

 

[TigerImposter]

Didn't debut til season 3 and season 4 played 6 games only. That means he only played 28 out of 90 odd games in first 4 seasons. So he's basically played roughly 140 out of 160 since then so that's a constant fixture in the team. Very few would have played as many in that same timeframe when you factor injuries, form, suspensions, personal reasons. Anyone can regurgitate facts and figures, maybe next time try analyzing them champ.

Thanks RPB as some of the stats and facts dished out on here are nonsense.

 

[TigerImposter]

Agree. If we can't find an upgrade out of Brown, Banks, Trezise, Ralphmith or Clarke we're in trouble.

Brown, Trezise and Clarke will all go past him if given the same opportunities.
Banks and HRS need to do more work in the gym on hitting contests with their upper body as they're a bit light in that department.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Didn't debut til season 3 and season 4 played 6 games only. That means he only played 28 out of 90 odd games in first 4 seasons. So he's basically played roughly 140 out of 160 since then so that's a constant fixture in the team. Very few would have played as many in that same timeframe when you factor injuries, form, suspensions, personal reasons. Anyone can regurgitate facts and figures, maybe next time try analyzing them champ.

TigerImposter


McIntosh played all 23 games in the season he debuted, 2015.

He played the first 5 games in 2016 but was only selected once after that, in rd 7. He was effectively barred from selection late season by the club by being placed on the long term injury list, no doubt to allow somebody on the rookie list to play. It is likely his syndesmosis injury would have been healed in time to play the last 6 games at least. So it is likely he was effectively omitted.

In 2017 he missed one match, omitted.

In 2018 he missed 3 matches in a block where he played VFL, so omitted.

In 2019 he played every match to rd 17 then was not selected in any of the 9 games including all finals after that. He was fully fit, so he was omitted.

In 2020 he missed the first 3 games of the season, despite being fit to play, so he was omitted.

In 2021 he missed 5 games though 4 of those at least appear to have been the result of an injury.

In 2022 he appears to have missed selection in rds 1 and 5, so may have been omitted.

2023 he has played every game so far.

So it is fair to say that since 2013, his first season after being drafted, McIntosh has not been omitted from the team at some point of the season when fully fit in a maximum of 3 of those 11 seasons. That doesn't look like a player who, to quote you does not have his head on the chopping block, ever.

What you must mean of course is McIntosh has been dropped many times and because his selfless role doesn't please you, you would like him dropped now for a player who is less able to play this selfless role.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Another useless stat as he missed a lot of games early 3 years with injuries. He has been dropped over the course especially 2019 season, but your information again was misleading.

What?

The information is accurate and the only conclusion I drew from it was a perfectly correct one - that richoplzbreed was wrong to say McIntosh never ever gets dropped. As my post above shows, he has failed to win selection when fit at some point of at least 7 and likely 8 of his 11 seasons on the list.

There is nothing misleading about the accurate fact I posted initially that McIntosh has been selected in only 160 odd of the 250 odd matches Richmond have played since he was drafted. He certainly has not been injured for the majority of those 90 odd matches where he has not been selected.

The proposition I was countering with this ready to hand fact was what was misleading. Since debut McIntosh has been omitted from the team when fully fit on at least 6 and possibly up to about 9 or 10 separate occasions, some of those for long sequences of matches.

 

[Boston tiger]

Role players sacrifice their game for the good of the team. KMac allows us to play like Richmond.
If playing like Richmond needs to change then KMac’s role will change. He may be good in his new role or they might need a different player. His running ability is second to none in the league . Trying to get an upgrade for him doing the same role would be near impossible.
I think the coaches know we have a real asset in KMac and are using him well.