Player Watch #34 Harry Armstrong- 8 weeks

[GhostofJimJess]

Now ive heard it, we dont need shannahan? Cos he was marking it like leo barry in that qaurter

We got problems evrywhere. Shannahn is killing it, we took 3 talls before him and can only dream one of them can do that yet.

We have far less need of a marking defender than we do a marking forward. If you disagree, you're just not watching Richmond games.

I rate Weitering higher as a player than Ben King, but if they were both available at the same price atm I'd probably be taking King.

Get the idea?

 

[living_in_syd]

We have far less need of a marking defender than we do a marking forward. If you disagree, you're just not watching Richmond games.

I rate Weitering higher as a player than Ben King, but if they were both available at the same price atm I'd probably be taking King.

Get the idea?

Jobe shannahan is forward, what have you been watching? He went back to take a contested grabs in the last quarter to save them and win the game, that doesnt make him a defender, what are you on about.

 

[wegetpumped]

How does an injury first called out minor prevention end up 8 weeks? I give up.

 

[wegetpumped]

Funny how we still have posters here down playing Shanahan just because Armstrong isn't performing as well so far.

Are we that precious? Armstrong might just need more time, nothing wrong with admiting that.

Shanahan no good eagles have him we gib

 

[KrispyKreme]

r6 2025
1q 11.40 on clock
3q 14.55

R7
3q 17.00
3q 0.40

R8
3q 16.05

R9
1q 18.45
3q 7.38

R13
1q 4.13

R14
1q 13.20
4q 17.30

R18
1q 10.50
4q 19.30

R19
3q 14.21

R20
2q 8.38
4q 6.58

There you go that’s the timestamp for every contested mark he’s been accredited with in the AFL.

Instead of regaling us with your brilliance as a recruiter in every thread, that for some reason has to include tearing down Faull, Smillie, Hotton and Armstrong to make Reid and Shanahan better, you can use your time to watch all the contested marks you haven’t seen.

He isn’t going to take big pack Grabs like lynch or Jack. He didn’t even do that in juniors. But
His ground work and effort is outstanding. Harry can take big marks like that though

 

[Coach_Required]

Not sure if anyone else thinks the same but I couldn't care less if our key forwards don't take a lot of pack marks just as long as they are kicking goals and causing headaches for opposition backs.

If Jonty could kick a bit straighter we all would be a lot happier with his output he has kicked 10.22 in 18 games, if you look at all his stats it isn't that much different to Shanahan except Jobe has kicked 15.11 in 12 games and averages about 1 more possession a game. So drafting Faull isn't the disaster some are making out.

With Armstrong, his marking isn't the issue, it's probably one of his strengths. He just doesn't seem to be getting the ball as much as we hoped, not sure if that's a positioning thing or if it's a team delivery issue. My guess it's a bit of both, he has only kicked 7.7 in 11 games.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Jobe shannahan is forward, what have you been watching? He went back to take a contested grabs in the last quarter to save them and win the game, that doesnt make him a defender, what are you on about.

Forward in name only if he's only taking marks from oppo kicks or across half back.

You think Vlastuin would have as many marks to his name over the last 10 years if he'd been in the forward 50 rather than the defensive 50?

Shanahan is a great young player - wish he played for us. But whether he'd be taking all thoss 5 marks in our current forward structure is a w hole different thing.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Not sure if anyone else thinks the same but I couldn't care less if our key forwards don't take a lot of pack marks just as long as they are kicking goals and causing headaches for opposition backs.

If Jonty could kick a bit straighter we all would be a lot happier with his output he has kicked 10.22 in 18 games, if you look at all his stats it isn't that much different to Shanahan except Jobe has kicked 15.11 in 12 games and averages about 1 more possession a game. So drafting Faull isn't the disaster some are making out.

With Armstrong, his marking isn't the issue, it's probably one of his strengths. He just doesn't seem to be getting the ball as much as we hoped, not sure if that's a positioning thing or if it's a team delivery issue. My guess it's a bit of both, he has only kicked 7.7 in 11 games.

Armstrong looked very good during the pre season hitouts imo
Obviously no lynch is a factor because it meant playing on a better quality opponent but I also wonder if this foot injury his been hampering him as well

 

[Bojangles17]

r6 2025
1q 11.40 on clock
3q 14.55

R7
3q 17.00
3q 0.40

R8
3q 16.05

R9
1q 18.45
3q 7.38

R13
1q 4.13

R14
1q 13.20
4q 17.30

R18
1q 10.50
4q 19.30

R19
3q 14.21

R20
2q 8.38
4q 6.58

There you go that’s the timestamp for every contested mark he’s been accredited with in the AFL.

Instead of regaling us with your brilliance as a recruiter in every thread, that for some reason has to include tearing down Faull, Smillie, Hotton and Armstrong to make Reid and Shanahan better, you can use your time to watch all the contested marks you haven’t seen.

Yeah righto pal , listen my ire is very much directed at those holding the reigns making these list decisions , not directly on the kids that’s unintended

I never did think I’d ever see the day that the RFC returned to the misery of the 80s , for those old enough to remember thru TJs second stint then KB where we were never a chance from one week to the next . I’ve never been very patient and i don’t suffer fools either , I’ve called out what appeared blunders at the time and exposed form has only reinforced my thoughts ,,,, believe me , I wish I was wrong

All I ask is recruit the obvious
If we need marking power , recruit the best mark
If we need kicking prowess , recruit the best kick
If we need inside ball winner , recruit someone who is a magnet
If a kid dominates in the champs , weight that form over HA

All pretty logical stuff ,,,,,, seemingly

 

[RJK Tiger]

Yeah righto pal , listen my ire is very much directed at those holding the reigns making these list decisions , not directly on the kids that’s unintended

I never did think I’d ever see the day that the RFC returned to the misery of the 80s , for those old enough to remember thru TJs second stint then KB where we were never a chance from one week to the next . I’ve never been very patient and i don’t suffer fools either , I’ve called out what appeared blunders at the time and exposed form has only reinforced my thoughts ,,,, believe me , I wish I was wrong

All I ask is recruit the obvious
If we need marking power , recruit the best mark
If we need kicking prowess , recruit the best kick
If we need inside ball winner , recruit someone who is a magnet
If a kid dominates in the champs , weight that form over HA

All pretty logical stuff ,,,,,, seemingly

I agree with this. We needed a dynamic KPF with Richo coming to an end & we took Jack, who was the best aerial mark of all the KPF's of that time - including more highly rated Gumbleton, Hansen, Thorpe. The club traded DOWN to get him and also take Polak, for the exact same reason.

We needed a classy midfield engine & leader - we took Cotchin

We needed a lockdown pillar defender - we took Rance

We needed a goal kicking game breaker - we took Dusty.

The rebuild to 2017 was never "cute". We needed a wing. We got Grigg. We needed a ruck, we got Maric. Then Toby. We needed a running HBF - we took Houli. We needed a inside bull mid, we took Prestia.

We needed a tough, hardworking, inside type - we took Vlaustin. And all the fringe players like Rioli, Castagna, Butler, Baker, Higgins, Broad etc etc etc were all types that had one very clear & defining strength. The guys we have taken so far struggle to really do that - except Lalor. You didn't need a lot of imagination to figure out why we took the guys.

There have been options for us all along the way. I recall when Cerra came up, I was open to trying to get him as we had the 5 picks & he was young & filled a immediate need too, a inside mid. I saw it as a way to hit the "2 timelines" way of rebuilding. I wanted Hogan as well & saw the 2 of them as a way to look to the future & still compete.

Carlton eventually got him for Pick 6 & 42 & i felt we could have beaten that deal easily with our 5 picks in the first 28 package. Was not a popular opinion & although Cerra has not lit it up for Carlton how they would have expected, I'd take him in a heartbeat now if Carlton asked for Gibcus & Clarke for him. I am a big believer of trading picks for known young high end talent already in the AFL system. When drafting from the draft it has a lot of variables and why 50% of top 20 picks fail.

If we took Cerra, we likely would not have been so urgent and impatient to do the Taranto & Hopper deal the year later, or at least both - likely just focusing on Cerra. The next year i was already worried about the situation in our ruck and KPF back ups & thought Chol was a cheeky good get to get back at the club - knowing already he is a good fit with our club, good character/teammate type. There was very little variable to getting him back in.

Very realistically the club could have had

Hogan.
Cerra.
Taranto
Chol
Steele

And the cost was likely Gibcus, Clarke in our current side

If we had all that you then revisit all the blokes who left like Bolton, Rioli, Baker, Graham, Young. All of a sudden, this is not a team that completely sucks & we are a team likely competing at least for a Wildcard spot.

It shits me to tears when people have the "Relax, have patience. This is just the way you need to rebuild, remember?". Because honestly, its not how i remember it at all. Only Dimma's first year did i go into a season thinking we were likely going to finish bottom.

 

[Bojangles17]

I agree with this. We needed a dynamic KPF with Richo coming to an end & we took Jack, who was the best aerial mark of all the KPF's of that time - including more highly rated Gumbleton, Hansen, Thorpe. The club traded DOWN to get him and also take Polak, for the exact same reason.

We needed a classy midfield engine & leader - we took Cotchin

We needed a lockdown pillar defender - we took Rance

We needed a goal kicking game breaker - we took Dusty.

The rebuild to 2017 was never "cute". We needed a wing. We got Grigg. We needed a ruck, we got Maric. Then Toby. We needed a running HBF - we took Houli. We needed a inside bull mid, we took Prestia.

We needed a tough, hardworking, inside type - we took Vlaustin. And all the fringe players like Rioli, Castagna, Butler, Baker, Higgins, Broad etc etc etc were all types that had one very clear & defining strength. The guys we have taken so far struggle to really do that - except Lalor. You didn't need a lot of imagination to figure out why we took the guys.

There have been options for us all along the way. I recall when Cerra came up, I was open to trying to get him as we had the 5 picks & he was young & filled a immediate need too, a inside mid. I saw it as a way to hit the "2 timelines" way of rebuilding. I wanted Hogan as well & saw the 2 of them as a way to look to the future & still compete.

Carlton eventually got him for Pick 6 & 42 & i felt we could have beaten that deal easily with our 5 picks in the first 28 package. Was not a popular opinion & although Cerra has not lit it up for Carlton how they would have expected, I'd take him in a heartbeat now if Carlton asked for Gibcus & Clarke for him. I am a big believer of trading picks for known young high end talent already in the AFL system. When drafting from the draft it has a lot of variables and why 50% of top 20 picks fail.

If we took Cerra, we likely would not have been so urgent and impatient to do the Taranto & Hopper deal the year later, or at least both - likely just focusing on Cerra. The next year i was already worried about the situation in our ruck and KPF back ups & thought Chol was a cheeky good get to get back at the club - knowing already he is a good fit with our club, good character/teammate type. There was very little variable to getting him back in.

Very realistically the club could have had

Hogan.
Cerra.
Taranto
Chol
Steele

And the cost was likely Gibcus, Clarke in our current side

If we had all that you then revisit all the blokes who left like Bolton, Rioli, Baker, Graham, Young. All of a sudden, this is not a team that completely sucks & we are a team likely competing at least for a Wildcard spot.

It shits me to tears when people have the "Relax, have patience. This is just the way you need to rebuild, remember?". Because honestly, its not how i remember it at all. Only Dimma's first year did i go into a season thinking we were likely going to finish bottom.

Cheers we re on exactly the same page , Francis Jackson despite being critiqued by many around here built a list that won 3 AFL flags , 1 x VFL flag and a r/up. And it was no accident

Since then it would appear we take an abstract view to what we need . We need an inside midfielder so get collier Dawkins , who would have rarely chalked up >20p in his life at that point

Fast forward to the current and again we re trying to be novel at filling our needs rather than selecting those that jump out of the page

I will say , I really liked last years pics . Sam C and grill are precisely what we need and the later pics look like they have goal kicking nous so hopefully at least one fires

Anyways good luck to the lads I hope they thrive . Don’t know what’s behind this injury epidemic , in defence I suppose we not alone , several clubs have same number of young players out . I would be suggesting strength and conditioning requires further investment. It’s an unacceptable rate of injury and is setting the club back every time

 

[DickieKnee]

Very realistically the club could have had

Hogan.
Cerra.
Taranto
Chol
Steele

We wouldn't be anywhere near finals if we had that bunch of players on our list.

 

[Calcium Man]

It shits me to tears when people have the "Relax, have patience. This is just the way you need to rebuild, remember?". Because honestly, its not how i remember it at all. Only Dimma's first year did i go into a season thinking we were likely going to finish bottom.

of course it’s not how you remember it at all, because you’ve fabricated an entire history to suit the narrative you want to tell.

 

[Football Tragic]

I agree with this. We needed a dynamic KPF with Richo coming to an end & we took Jack, who was the best aerial mark of all the KPF's of that time - including more highly rated Gumbleton, Hansen, Thorpe. The club traded DOWN to get him and also take Polak, for the exact same reason.

We needed a classy midfield engine & leader - we took Cotchin

We needed a lockdown pillar defender - we took Rance

We needed a goal kicking game breaker - we took Dusty.

The rebuild to 2017 was never "cute". We needed a wing. We got Grigg. We needed a ruck, we got Maric. Then Toby. We needed a running HBF - we took Houli. We needed a inside bull mid, we took Prestia.

We needed a tough, hardworking, inside type - we took Vlaustin. And all the fringe players like Rioli, Castagna, Butler, Baker, Higgins, Broad etc etc etc were all types that had one very clear & defining strength. The guys we have taken so far struggle to really do that - except Lalor. You didn't need a lot of imagination to figure out why we took the guys

Actually, we needed a dynamic KPF - we drafted Schiltz, Griffiths, Vickery, Morton, Coleman-Jones, Lennon and even Edwards

We needed a classy midfielder - we took Conca, Miles, Collier-Dawkins, Corey Ellis, Naish

We needed a lockdown defender - we took Polac, Thursfield,

We needed a goal kicking game breaker - we took Tambling, Oakleigh-Nickles, Collins, Pickett,

For every hit, expect multiple misses. I think the art of drafting and developing has come a long way over the years but historically, only 30% of first round dratees make it, much fewer later dratees. I think you are being too hard on our recruiters and I have high hopes that all of them will make it. Cherry picking a few of our recent stars is not a good example though of what we had to endure to finally settle on our premiership team. It took a lot of misses before we hit.

 

[cairo tiger]

How does an injury first called out minor prevention end up 8 weeks? I give up.

slicer thats how

 

[RJK Tiger]

Actually, we needed a dynamic KPF - we drafted Schiltz, Griffiths, Vickery, Morton, Coleman-Jones, Lennon and even Edwards

We needed a classy midfielder - we took Conca, Miles, Collier-Dawkins, Corey Ellis, Naish

We needed a lockdown defender - we took Polac, Thursfield,

We needed a goal kicking game breaker - we took Tambling, Oakleigh-Nickles, Collins, Pickett,

For every hit, expect multiple misses. I think the art of drafting and developing has come a long way over the years but historically, only 30% of first round dratees make it, much fewer later dratees. I think you are being too hard on our recruiters and I have high hopes that all of them will make it. Cherry picking a few of our recent stars is not a good example though of what we had to endure to finally settle on our premiership team. It took a lot of misses before we hit.

Conca was not drafted as a mid, he was always more of a flank/pocket player. And a lot of people were furious we passed on Heppell as he was clearly a more alpha type. Conca is a example of the type of recruitment we have been doing lately & an example of why it is dumb. Heppell was the guy we should have taken. It was widely the thought in real time too.

Brandon Ellis was never really seen as a elite midfield option and always a high level role player type. I don't recall him being a popular pick - although history shows you that he was probably in the top 10% of "best players available" at our selection.

Miles was a recycled player from GWS

RCD we took after the rebuild was complete and won a flag. Same with Ellis. And Naish. And CCJ.

Edwards was a excellent pick, so your just helping my point. Brandon Ellis was a fine

We traded for Polak and he was a doing fine until he got him by a tram. Thursfield was also a fine draftee and and taken in the rookie draft - not a first or 2nd round pick.

Tambling JON, Collins - we are going back well before our rebuild. Not relevant. Might as well put Banik in there.

KPF - All of Schultz, Griffiths, Vickery & Morton were not bad pick ups in essence. Vickery started off perfectly fine & his wheels came off, lost confidence and the rest is history. Morton was a good pick up for us and filled a role we needed & we didn't draft him, we traded him from WCE. He ended up going on to win Sydney a GF. You forgot Hughes, who was worth the risk & showed plenty of promise Jay ended up playing almost 200 games and kicking 333 goals. Hughes was actually developing fine until he witnessed Polak's injury & went to poop. I don't even consider Griffiths a bad pick up either. Was worth the risk, still played some good footy. Just didn't work out - but he certainly ticked the boxes of what we needed.

Lennon is actually the prefect example of why you don't use a first rounder to fill a specific "now" hole & just take the best player available with an obvious elite trait. If we were not trying to be "cute" we would have just taken Cripps.

A lot of the blokes we have taken since our first flag really fit into the "Lennon" style of drafting - instead of taking blokes who have obvious skillsets that help you get better, we took "cute" niche picks that are better done with later picks.

First & 2nd rounders - just take the players with the highest ceiling & most clear path to achieving that.

The players/types you avoid with first round picks?

Lennon
Pettifer
Fiora
Ellis
Menadue
Gilmore
Meyer
JON

To be honest most of our recruits from the last 7 years have been closer to these types than Cotchins, Martins, Rances, Jacks.


There is a difference between a pick just not working out and failing Vs it being a bad pick. For example, the year we took JON, Mitch Clarke, to me, was the most obvious guy we should have taken. Screaming for a KPF & we took a project HBF. Mitch Clarke started off with a bang, but his career declined due to confidence and an inability to be able to sustain the pressure of an AFL career.

If we took Clarke & not JON, would i consider that a failed pick too? Definitely not. Clarke had potential, showed potential in the AFL - but sometimes it just doesnt work out. Schulz is the same. We needed a player like him when we got him. He took a while to develop, but I never looked at him as a stupid pick in the same way i look a Lennon, Fiora & JON as idiotic picks. Tambling was not even a bad pick - its only bad as Roughead & Franklin went on to be what they became and the chance to take 1 Mid + 1 KPF made a lot more sense. But at the time, did everyone think we ****ed up with Tambling + Lids? Definitely not - we thought we had struck gold. And Tambling had some definite moments to believe he was going to be a Michael Mitchell / Wells level player - he just didn't work out.

Fiora over Pavlich though? Lennon over Cripps? JON over Clarke? All were terrible picks in the moment that worked out to be 1000 times worse.

Dont recruit flakey, skinny, flankers/pocket players with your first 2 picks unless they have "the it" factor. Dan Rioli was a sound pick in that draft & an example of when the risk is worth it VS ignoring a obviously more talented player

I get your point & its a fair one - that we still were prone to making "the wrong calls" and targeting these types even during the dynasty rebuild era - but you are only proving my our point more in that - when we strayed from going "the best available in our most pressing need" in selections ( ie Conca, Ellis, JON etc ), they were all the wrong decisions. The lesson here is - don't waste 1st & 2nd rounders on "Role player" types until all your pillars are set in stone. Perfectly fine to do it when you have Riewoldt, Dusty, Cotchin, Rance, Grimes as your spine - but get those pieces in place now.

 

[KrispyKreme]

I'd take him in a heartbeat now if Carlton asked for Gibcus & Clarke for him.

Clarke is our best chance at a top notch wing player. They can have Sonsie instead.

 

[Achilles Heel]

He had a shocker on the weekend but when did he get the foot injury.? Could have contributed to his bad game.

Walking down the ramp to the rooms