Killer_Mike
Premiership Player
You're are defending him by saying he's been good since round 10? I guess the rounds prior too that don't count?
He has been beaten a number of time since round ten also.
Delisted #36: Michael Hartley - Joins Hawthorne via the preseason draft - 29/11
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He has been beaten a number of time since round ten also.
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
He's been excellent since round 10. Before that he was average.
By a number of times you mean twice? Halved the contest against Riewoldt. Outright beat Patton, Dixon, Franklin, Cox/Reid and Bruce. Lost to Hipwood and Brown. Watch him smash Redpath, Casboult and McGovern in the next 3 weeks and see you, maskmcgee and Despair disappear once again
Killer_Mike
Premiership Player
He was poor before round 10. Thats why he was dropped and only came back in because Ambrose was injured. Was poor when he returned and has been lucky in about 4 games. Reiwoldt and Franklin both got off the chain against him but kicked poorly and Hipwood obviously smashed him. My criticism of Hartley is that he gets beaten by smart players on the lead. It's easy to expose and he's had all year to fix it.
You set your own criteria or "expectations" all you like but he's had a poor year.
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
Well I disagree. It's funny how all the people ridiculing him have only been have been present twice in the past 2 and a half months, isn't it?
Killer_Mike
Premiership Player
Present where?
Was at the game today and it continually struck me that he almost never had contact with Brown as his starting position .....always a half-step off him.
I dunno, maybe I'm a fossil, but I think goal side with contact is a much better place to engage from.
I dunno, maybe I'm a fossil, but I think goal side with contact is a much better place to engage from.
I thought Hartley redeemed himself somewhat in the last quarter. I'd keep him in the side next week. They don't have a Brown or Waite who always tear us apart so he should return to his best hopefully. He was excellent last week so I'll back him
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
In this thread.
Killer_Mike
Premiership Player
Thats because I'm not like you. I don't come here every week and criticise that same players even if they don't deserve it. I try to remain positive and concentrate on the positives.
If you look at my comments or any other persons for that matter you will see that people were calling Hartley out for the same issues. I'm not one to critisize a player like this but I think it's a significant issue and its been going on all year. I sit right behind the goals on level two each week at Etihad and it's easy to see when he's down that end. He gives his opponent far to much respect.
Killer_Mike
Premiership Player
Hurley was on Brown in the last and played him much better.
Hurley had probably one of his worst games this year. Not like Hartley was on his own
Killer_Mike
Premiership Player
I think Hurley is entitled to an off day.
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Thought he was complete garbage today. Not just based on the number of goals he had kicked against him, but in the way he conceded them. In saying that, it is particularly hard to judge especially after Hurley was moved to Brown and still copped a beating, though seemed to give more of a contest.
Well Hartley has been great for weeks. This is a one off game in a patch of good form
Hurley got beaten by Brown worse than Hartley today?
Brown beat both Hurley and Hartley comprehensively. Strange day to pick on Hartley
Brown beat both Hurley and Hartley comprehensively. Strange day to pick on Hartley
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
No, he's been s**t this year. Doesn't matter that he outright beat 5 of his previous 6 opponents, he's been s**t.
Yeah ridiculous. He killed it only a week ago.
Hartley has absolutely earned some credit for consistency. Hurley would've been beaten comprehensively by Brown as well if he played the majority of the game on him (which is what happened in the last quarter)
Killer_Mike
Premiership Player
Been comprehensively beaten in two of his last four games.
He got lost on him just the same. Thankfully Hartley was able to shut out Waite who was killing us.
Killer_Mike
Premiership Player
Hurley has credits.
There has been a pretty dramatic overrating of Hartley's season. The vitriol which is being directed at Hartley is equally inaccurate.
This year Hartley has made some improvements in his intercept and counter-attacking play but his one-on-one defence has regressed. The above observation about Hartley looking slower than he really is is a good one. He has become a horribly reactive defender (which I can only assume is the complete opposite of what he is being instructed to do - whatever he is being asked to do has confused the s**t out of him).
He played a great half of footy on Franklin in 2016 when he was matching Buddy on the lead (un-athletic players can't do that). His closing speed was also on display a lot last year when he would be the last at a pack but would always hammer the ball away (despite looking like he wouldn't make it).
Hartley is essentially Baguley at this stage. He can do a job and is not always as exposed as he should be but I do not trust him to beat a good forward. Ultimately, he will need to improve because we should certainly be looking to improve our KPD1.
I'd be amazed if Ambrose plays one game in the VFL on account of Hartley's form being good enough to keep a fit Ambrose out of the side. I'd like for Hartley to play some VFL footy and get his head around reading the play and playing the ball.
This year Hartley has made some improvements in his intercept and counter-attacking play but his one-on-one defence has regressed. The above observation about Hartley looking slower than he really is is a good one. He has become a horribly reactive defender (which I can only assume is the complete opposite of what he is being instructed to do - whatever he is being asked to do has confused the s**t out of him).
He played a great half of footy on Franklin in 2016 when he was matching Buddy on the lead (un-athletic players can't do that). His closing speed was also on display a lot last year when he would be the last at a pack but would always hammer the ball away (despite looking like he wouldn't make it).
Hartley is essentially Baguley at this stage. He can do a job and is not always as exposed as he should be but I do not trust him to beat a good forward. Ultimately, he will need to improve because we should certainly be looking to improve our KPD1.
I'd be amazed if Ambrose plays one game in the VFL on account of Hartley's form being good enough to keep a fit Ambrose out of the side. I'd like for Hartley to play some VFL footy and get his head around reading the play and playing the ball.
Jimmy_H
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Has anyone else notice that once the ball hits the deck, hartley wants nothing to do with it? His spacial awareness is horrible. Provides little to no rebound and rarely does be beat his man. Everytime theres a high ball inside 50 when hartleys there, I think its a free against or a mark for the opposition. Ambrose probably needs a few more 2s, but we need him for the run home asap.
yaco55
Hall of Famer
What - Today showed how much we miss Ambrose - Ambrose can body forwards under the ball and stop them getting their hands up.
TheGreatBarryB
Hall of Famer
Suppose Saints will drop Carlisle then as he's conceded 9 goals in last two games. Sinclair kicked 5.3 last night. Amazing how hard it is for a defender to stop when there's no pressure further up the ground.
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