#4 James Harmes – traded to Bulldogs. Thanks for 'that' kick. You know the one.

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schmuttt said:
Would have watched around a dozen hawks games this year. Half his clearances are hack kicks out of congestion, that is why I say he lacks hurt factor. Is an average user by foot and can't break away from a pack like Oliver or just mow through it like Cripps.
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Maybe Hawthorns midfield is so weak that's Clarko wants him to do to give Gunston Rough Breust a better chance?

His Clanger count for the season was 5 more than Oliver's despite having it 150 more times.

I just find it strange you discount someone who has found the footy more times than anyone in history.
 
Topkent said:
You guys said he was no good then produced bullshit data to try and correlate your argument and now follow it up with another arbitrary rating. Top 10? There is 18 clubs so him being 13th still makes him a gun.

What is hurt factor? Seemed to be something everyone labelled Oliver with.
Is it because Mitchell plays exclusive inside? Because he has too, literally has no other support so if he starts seagulling around packs to get his metres gained an hurt factor stat up Hawthorn will lose even more clearances and contested footy. Or it because he isn't as physically imposing as Oliver and Cripps so he doesn't appear as damaging?
Hawthorn has one of the weakest midfields in the AFL and they finished top 4. Mitchell was a big part of that.
Sounds like you blokes heard Buckley and made up your mind
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When I get in front of an actual PC I will do some correlation around score involvements per touch - that’s the one that really shows him up as rubbish.
 
LeverPuller said:
When I get in front of an actual PC I will do some correlation around score involvements per touch - that’s the one that really shows him up as rubbish.
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It doesn't though..

Cripps would be near the bottom on that stat. All it does is show what his teammates did after he wins the footy. All you can judge it on is how often his teammate retains the footy from his clearance but even then if his teammate shanks it it doesn't devalue his work.
 

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Topkent said:
It doesn't though..

Cripps would be near the bottom on that stat. All it does is show what his teammates did after he wins the footy. All you can judge it on is how often his teammate retains the footy from his clearance but even then if his teammate shanks it it doesn't devalue his work.
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I think you need to exempt Cripps from anything around offensive stats because the rest of the team is completely trash.

Mitchell doesn’t stack up on SI against almost any major midfielder. That means that his clearances aren’t leading to scores, they’re leading to further stoppages. SI is about possession chains leading to scores, so if you handball to your teammate who gets it to another teammate who scores it counts for you.
 
LeverPuller said:
I think you need to exempt Cripps from anything around offensive stats because the rest of the team is completely trash.

Mitchell doesn’t stack up on SI against almost any major midfielder. That means that his clearances aren’t leading to scores, they’re leading to further stoppages. SI is about possession chains leading to scores, so if you handball to your teammate who gets it to another teammate who scores it counts for you.
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Raw statistics done prove anything, for instance what style does the team play? Hawthorn play a balanced style so when they exit a stoppage they want a mark. They may lose the ball upfield kicking to a contest but they don't care because they don't want it to be a midfield scrap.
We dominate the midfield, we wanna score from clearances and we get it forward at all costs.
Richmond were like 16th from clearances, their mids lose them often but they don't mind as their defence often marks it and they rebound with pace as the opposition has pressed.

The other main benefit of Mitchell winning a clearance is that the opposition doesn't.

Again SI doesn't prove anything except to say who you have the ball too is also good. How many hawks midfielders make our team? Genuine question?
Because shiels is a decent player and stopper and Omeara has been good but they aren't exactly a scary midfield. Worse than Brisbanes even.
 
Mitchell's a really good player, he's just not as elite as some people think.
 
One of only four players to have 2 consecutive finals games with 10+ tackles, and would be the first to have 3 if he has double digits again this weekend.
 
rhaz said:
One of only four players to have 2 consecutive finals games with 10+ tackles, and would be the first to have 3 if he has double digits again this weekend.
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i know its being used as an illustration of the contested tagging he's doing, which is lovely, but I hate BS stats like this.

I blame David King for meaningless statistics parading as acheivements.
 
Russian Demon said:
i know its being used as an illustration of the contested tagging he's doing, which is lovely, but I hate BS stats like this.

I blame David King for meaningless statistics parading as acheivements.
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How is that a meaningless stat? Teams average ~100 tackles in a game so one bloke is getting 10% of them.
 
Waffle
 
Topkent said:
How is that a meaningless stat? Teams average ~100 tackles in a game so one bloke is getting 10% of them.
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Well as you so eloquently put in another thread, it depends on the team's gameplay, style, and the individual role. If your job is to follow around a dude and tackle him as soon as he gets it, its hardly surprising. Especially in finals where you're on top end players who get it a lot.

I'm not saying he isn't great and that the conclusion wasn't right. I'm saying that stat is not contributing to showing it in a way watching him play isn't.


Also, 1 player getting 10% isn't that crazy. Its double the average. If there is a bunch of players who would be expected to get below the average, suddenly its not as crazy as it sounds. 30 tackles.... now that would be a gargantuan effort.
 
Russian Demon said:
Well as you so eloquently put in another thread, it depends on the team's gameplay, style, and the individual role. If your job is to follow around a dude and tackle him as soon as he gets it, its hardly surprising. Especially in finals where you're on top end players who get it a lot.

I'm not saying he isn't great and that the conclusion wasn't right. I'm saying that stat is not contributing to showing it in a way watching him play isn't.


Also, 1 player getting 10% isn't that crazy. Its double the average. If there is a bunch of players who would be expected to get below the average, suddenly its not as crazy as it sounds. 30 tackles.... now that would be a gargantuan effort.
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Fair enough :thumbsu:
 

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******* chompers, the living legend just keeps growing! Ol’ chomp chomp!
 
stretcharmstrong said:
******* chompers, the living legend just keeps growing! Ol’ chomp chomp!
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its pretty funny how Tony Jones is his uncle

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Great work to end 3rd in the B&F.

I used to hate Harmes: I'd complain all the time that he played one good game in 10, yet somehow stayed in the team. But his second half of the season has turned him into one of my favourite players. What I particularly like is that he wasn't a high draft pick: for years it's felt like other clubs got stars out of low picks, but we continually got nothing. But finally that might be changing (with Harmes, as well as some others coming from 40-50+).

The challenge for him now is to keep it up: plenty of players flash in and have a spell of form before returning to what they were before. But if he can keep it up then he's a huge piece in the puzzle for sustained success, because he came from such a nothing-pick. Everyone expects to get a good player from high draft picks, but if you can nail a nothing pick then it's a huge advantage.

In conclusion, great work Chompers, may you continue to make me look stupid for doubting you.
 
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