Current 4yo Boy Missing Yunta SA

[31550]

There were over 200 police and volunteers on the land searches, so the public was helping.

The military's also been involved using very high tech equipment going right over the property, I'm not sure exactly what else the public might help with at this point.

People can still ring in if they think they might have information.

Interested to know about the military's involvement. What equipment did they use to go over the property? Did it confirm no trace of Gus whatsoever?

 

[Kurve]

Interested to know about the military's involvement. What equipment did they use to go over the property? Did it confirm no trace of Gus whatsoever?

Last I heard the police were waiting for their image analysis.

The military's got equipment we don't even know they've got, so it could be anything. Ex ray even.

 

[31550]

Last I heard the police were waiting for their image analysis.

The military's got equipment we don't even know they've got, so it could be anything. Ex ray even.

 

[Earls Smother]

Interested to know about the military's involvement. What equipment did they use to go over the property? Did it confirm no trace of Gus whatsoever?

This is from Channel 7 Adelaide on 7/10:

BREAKING: Police have provided an update on the case of missing four-year-old Gus Lamont, vowing to never give up on finding the little boy.
Yesterday, a search occurred near a dam located 3.5km west of the homestead after a small bootprint was located - but that potential clue was quickly ruled out.
In recent days, police have been using a special drone with infrared capabilities to further search the property located 40km south of Yunta – the same technology used in the search for the remains of Port Lincoln murder victim Julian Story.


The following is an explanation of that technology from someone familiar with it's use. If it's inappropriate to post this, #K#Kurve can delete.

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[CodyRose]

This is from Channel 7 Adelaide on 7/10:

BREAKING: Police have provided an update on the case of missing four-year-old Gus Lamont, vowing to never give up on finding the little boy.
Yesterday, a search occurred near a dam located 3.5km west of the homestead after a small bootprint was located - but that potential clue was quickly ruled out.
In recent days, police have been using a special drone with infrared capabilities to further search the property located 40km south of Yunta – the same technology used in the search for the remains of Port Lincoln murder victim Julian Story.

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Lidar will do it. One can read excellent examples in public and academic/technical reports, where it has had successes. Great idea to bring in this technology.

 

[31550]

Lidar will do it. One can read excellent examples in public and academic/technical reports, where it has had successes. Great idea to bring in this technology.

Lidar has limited use in detecting or finding human remains. Nowhere near as effective as ground penetrating radar (GPR) or cadaver dogs. Thermal imagery would also have been useful in the early days, but not now.
Drones with multispectral or hyperspectral sensors would be the way to go if available.

Lidar will detect soil and vegetation disturbances but it's possible to hide a body without disturbing soil or vegetation or to reinstate it. E.g place the body inside or underneath existing thick scrub, or place the body in or under a structure or vehicle.

 

[Underarrest_]

Lidar has limited use in detecting or finding human remains. Nowhere near as effective as ground penetrating radar (GPR) or cadaver dogs. Thermal imagery would also have been useful in the early days, but not now.
Drones with multispectral or hyperspectral sensors would be the way to go if available.

Lidar will detect soil and vegetation disturbances but it's possible to hide a body without disturbing soil or vegetation or to reinstate it. E.g place the body inside or underneath existing thick scrub, or place the body in or under a structure or vehicle.

I’m guessing if there is a lack of any evidence found with the footage this might also give police leads.

 

[BonzaRam]

Lidar has limited use in detecting or finding human remains. Nowhere near as effective as ground penetrating radar (GPR) or cadaver dogs. Thermal imagery would also have been useful in the early days, but not now.
Drones with multispectral or hyperspectral sensors would be the way to go if available.

Lidar will detect soil and vegetation disturbances but it's possible to hide a body without disturbing soil or vegetation or to reinstate it. E.g place the body inside or underneath existing thick scrub, or place the body in or under a structure or vehicle.

It was on the 7th Oct that police scaled back the search , so they weren't looking for human remains at that time but they would have been hoping to pick any anomalies in the surrounding area.

 

[Kurve]

Thermal imagery could still have been helpful as swarms of insects, flies etc do give off heat.

 

[31550]

It was on the 7th Oct that police scaled back the search , so they weren't looking for human remains at that time but they would have been hoping to pick any anomalies in the surrounding area.

Ok so the problem is that unless the property was scanned BEFORE Gus disappeared, there is no baseline to check for 'abnormal' soil or vegetation disturbances anyway - nothing to compare later scans to.

"Searching for anomalies" is a more basic approach which might identify potential concealment sites. Don't even need LIDAR for that - a visual scan of 'anomalous sites' accompanied by ground search / cadaver dogs and GPR would work. You would start by examining all man-made structures or unnatural looking objects, land features or formations.

Immediately after he disappeared, thermal imaging (heat detection) would have been an effective way of finding him for up to several days. 7th October would have probably have been too late to use thermal imaging.

If they are looking for vegetation changes due to e.g. a decomposing body, then they need to do multiple scans over time and compare the results - this would be a painstaking exercise, and requires great expertise to determine the difference between natural and unnatural variations in topology and vegetation. Probably lots of "red herrings".

I keep asking why cadaver dogs haven't been considered, and whether all the buildings have been forensically examined.

 

[dc3]

I'm not sure how to find my old posts. Early in this thread, l stated l'd heard from a usually very reliable source (definitely not from social media) that Gus was in the kinship foster care of his maternal grandparents. His mother was not meant to be anywhere near him without supervision. I'll stand by this info because l heard it again today from a different reliable source.

I suppose this is why there has been such emphasis on Jess being "10 kms away" when Gus vanished from the homestead. Hhmmm..

Does anyone know if the family followed AFL? If so, mustering sheep would be an odd thing to do on GF day.

You’ve just answered was the date significant for any reason

AFL day would be perfect to pull a rouse

 

[BonzaRam]

Ok so the problem is that unless the property was scanned BEFORE Gus disappeared, there is no baseline to check for 'abnormal' soil or vegetation disturbances anyway - nothing to compare later scans to.

"Searching for anomalies" is a more basic approach which might identify potential concealment sites. Don't even need LIDAR for that - a visual scan of 'anomalous sites' accompanied by ground search / cadaver dogs and GPR would work. You would start by examining all man-made structures or unnatural looking objects, land features or formations.

Immediately after he disappeared, thermal imaging (heat detection) would have been an effective way of finding him for up to several days. 7th October would have probably have been too late to use thermal imaging.

If they are looking for vegetation changes due to e.g. a decomposing body, then they need to do multiple scans over time and compare the results - this would be a painstaking exercise, and requires great expertise to determine the difference between natural and unnatural variations in topology and vegetation. Probably lots of "red herrings".

I keep asking why cadaver dogs haven't been considered, and whether all the buildings have been forensically examined.

Thermal imagery could still have been helpful as swarms of insects, flies etc do give off heat.

Would budgetary constraints affect what type of tech would be used in the first instant or does who (as in Police or SES or ADF) has what tech tools affect decisions on this, or do they all have access to the same tech at anytime?

 

[31550]

Would budgetary constraints affect what type of tech would be used in the first instant or does who (as in Police or SES or ADF) has what tech tools affect decisions on this, or do they all have access to the same tech at anytime?

Question only SAPOL can answer but one expects there is some sort of threshold to be reached before engaging any external organisation?

 

[Kurve]

Would budgetary constraints affect what type of tech would be used in the first instant or does who (as in Police or SES or ADF) has what tech tools affect decisions on this, or do they all have access to the same tech at anytime?

Indications were IMO, that there were no budgetary constraints.

The longer this goes on, the more it's going to cost so it probably makes sense to throw everything they can in to the initial investigation.

 

[Kurve]

Ok so the problem is that unless the property was scanned BEFORE Gus disappeared, there is no baseline to check for 'abnormal' soil or vegetation disturbances anyway - nothing to compare later scans to.

Just on this, there may be comparisons that can be made from various sources of satellite imagery.

 

[Jim Cricket]

Just on this, there may be comparisons that can be made from various sources of satellite imagery.

I'd think a comparison could also be made between a particular spot and the terrain immediately surrounding it to see if something's new or different at that spot.

Considering LIDAR can spot vehicle tracks it wouldn't need to be looking for a body, it only needs to find a spot where a body might be buried or concealed or where there's been a disturbance of the ground. As stated above...

You can pick up small depressions, new wheel tracks, compacted soil, or areas that have been dug or filled

 

[passball]

'Lack of evidence' Gus Lamont ever left grandparents' homestead

The lack of footprints, any items of clothing or remains has been described as 'unusual' by authorities, given the 150,000 acres of land searched by ground and air.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This won't go down well.
Going to give a shout out to Daily Mail.
They are keeping Gus's disappearance in the news, his disappearance shouldn't be forgotten.

The Grandmas just want peace and quiet. WHAT??

 

[passball]

In just one photo so much could go so wrong

 

[winyhill]

I keep asking why cadaver dogs haven't been considered, and whether all the buildings have been forensically examined.

Wasn't this discussed previously? Apparently there are no cadaver dogs in SA.
I am sure the Police and the family have searched every building and probably continue to do so. But there are a lot of them, several appear to be derelict, and the piles of old machinery and vehicles are massive.

 

[winyhill]

In just one photo so much could go so wrong


View attachment 2482549

On any farm, there is so much that can go wrong. As an aside, it appears they dont have power there and only a couple of solar panels. That means there is a big generator in one of those buildings powering the homestead complex.

 

[winyhill]

This won't go down well.
Going to give a shout out to Daily Mail.
They are keeping Gus's disappearance in the news, his disappearance shouldn't be forgotten.

The Grandmas just want peace and quiet. WHAT??

"Gamble suggested that during the initial search, police could have underestimated the distance the four-year-old was able to travel by foot.

By the time the search area was expanded, the private investigator theorised Gus may have sought shelter in a difficult-to-reach location that searchers missed.

'I would have searched in a much wider range than two kilometers', Gamble said."

Well, isn't he just the expert?... Dont know how the Police get anything done without him.

Mostly click bait. I dont see any mention of the grand-parents in that article. Where does it say they just peace and quiet? Who can blame them? They will spend the rest of their days searching that property for his body, always looking, always wondering. His death will cast a shadow over that family for a generation.

Why do you think the DM is doing a good job, stirring up public sentiment against the family in their quest for a headline.

 

[31550]

Wasn't this discussed previously? Apparently there are no cadaver dogs in SA.
I am sure the Police and the family have searched every building and probably continue to do so. But there are a lot of them, several appear to be derelict, and the piles of old machinery and vehicles are massive.

You do know that dogs and handlers are capable of interstate travel? If they can get the ADF and SES to the property, they can also get a team of dogs and handlers there.

 

[winyhill]

You do know that dogs and handlers are capable of interstate travel? If they can get the ADF and SES to the property, they can also get a team of dogs and handlers there.

Obviously needs sign-off from higher up bureaucrats in two states. Very costly. Police do not believe any crime has been committed.
Those would be the main reasons it hasn't happened.

No states have "teams of dogs and handlers". Just one and where would they start the dog? They have to be in the close vicinity to alert on a body. 30-40 meters.
They have no idea where he initially wandered, which direction and how far. So it would be a needle in the haystack situation.

 

[Lady O]

In just one photo so much could go so wrong


View attachment 2482549

Fresh dirt.

 

[Wallace52]

On any farm, there is so much that can go wrong. As an aside, it appears they dont have power there and only a couple of solar panels. That means there is a big generator in one of those buildings powering the homestead complex.

Do they really not have mains power there? Wow.