Conspiracy Theory 9/11 - Part 2

[Kellythatsit]

Ewe and Sheepthatsit missed the point by about 20 minutes

yes of course we did . . . you were obviously making a cunning reference to the BBC's early WTC7 announcement and chose to frame it within the context of a ludicrously unlikely article from a less than reliable source.

Hats of to you sir . . . we have been bested

 

[Kellythatsit]

Unfortunate !! (that's a cheap shot) wouldn't cut it if my loved ones were killed and a F L A W E D investigation was conducted after much, much protest.

“We lost our son Bobby on September 11, 2001. The death of a child is a pain like no other, compounded by the fact that this wonderful young man was murdered. When a crime as heinous as this takes place, it is assumed that justice will be served and the perpetrators will be discovered and punished. Much to our dismay, this has not taken place. We only want the truth.” Bob Mcilvane

You see the way language works is that you can take a word like fortunate, which I think you'd agree this situation is the opposite of, and reverse its meaning. By adding un to the beginning we magically transform not only the word, but reverse its context as well and hey presto, it is now the opposite of fortunate. No nano-thermite needed.

Fortunately (see I've used that word again, but in the original context - are you keeping up?) I've never experienced this kind of traumatic loss. Having two wonderful children of my own I can only begin, on a very minute level, to understand the hole that has been left in their lives. That doesn't mean however that I can ever comprehend the rage and anger and pure frustration over what happened that day. People deal with these things in their own way and it is not surprising that some family members do still believe justice has not been served. There are many other victim families however who do accept the official findings, flaws and all. Are these people all wrong, just happily accepting a lie? Do these people not care as much about their loved ones as the families still asking questions?

Furthermore, how can you condemn me for describing the suffering of family members as unfortunate yet hold films such as Loose Change (and the like) in such high acclaim. These films have actually leveled accusations of complicity at victims family members, including labeling a father who lost his ten year old son at the Pentagon as a murderer. Hell they've even accused actual victims of being involved in the plot.

But at the end of the day, none of this makes your argument valid. None of it is evidence of anything except the expected suffering of people who have lost loved ones in a terrible catastrophic event.

 

[Sanders]

“We lost our son Bobby on September 11, 2001. The death of a child is a pain like no other, compounded by the fact that this wonderful young man was murdered. When a crime as heinous as this takes place, it is assumed that justice will be served and the perpetrators will be discovered and punished. Much to our dismay, this has not taken place. We only want the truth.” Bob Mcilvane

That's a horrible experience you'd never wish upon anyone

But I don't see how being a victim of terrible tragedy makes Bob Mcilvane a credible expert on these matters?

Sympathise of course, but listen to on technical matters?

 

[Crows_United_FC]

That's a horrible experience you'd never wish upon anyone

But I don't see how being a victim of terrible tragedy makes Bob Mcilvane a credible expert on these matters?

Sympathise of course, but listen to on technical matters?

I watched a Doco last week on Foxtel during their annual 9/11 week and it was called 'my 9/11'. Personal interviews with survivors and families of the victims. Really sad.

 

[Kellythatsit]

That's a horrible experience you'd never wish upon anyone

But I don't see how being a victim of terrible tragedy makes Bob Mcilvane a credible expert on these matters?

Sympathise of course, but listen to on technical matters?

It is illogical reasoning used to try and sway an argument by appealing to our emotions. It makes us think, "look at this guy, he is so close to this that he lost someone. If he doesn't believe it then how can we?"

It doesn't address any of the facts at all, nor make their arguments any more or less valid.

In fact I would be less inclined to rely on the testimony of those emotionally involved in any criminal or civil case. Their capacity to think about the subject matter rationally and without prejudice is demonstrably poor.

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[Crows_United_FC]

Here's another theory: The plane was Hijacked even before the plane got off the ground and traffic control was fully aware of the situation but purposely didn't intervene.

 

[Kellythatsit]

. . . and another theory, the planes became self aware at the same moment and like birds flew into the windows of the towers because they thought the reflection was the sky.

There's two more you can add to your list GG.

 

[Damp Squarie]

That's a horrible experience you'd never wish upon anyone

But I don't see how being a victim of terrible tragedy makes Bob Mcilvane a credible expert on these matters?

Sympathise of course, but listen to on technical matters?

I don't think Bobs saying he is a credible expert on these matters - he just wants unanswered questions, answered.
Sadly, like many commissioners who handed down the official omission 9 11 report.

 

[Sanders]

I don't think Bobs saying he is a credible expert on these matters - he just wants unanswered questions, answered.
Sadly, like many commissioners who handed down the official omission 9 11 report.

I think there is a great deal of argument about whether these are legitimate questions that need answering or that there are unanswered questions.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Put me down for legitimate answers
The one given for building 7s collapse is so illegitimate it should be in a Foster Home.

 

[Crows_United_FC]

I know this could be a bit far fetched but I'll post it anyways since it's a conspiracy theory and could be worth mentioning.

Anyways there's a theory that there was a plane that got diverted to another airport on 9/11 and all the passengers on that plane were murder and was not reported by the media or any highly powered officials!

^^^^Something similar to this anyway! Anyone else heard about this??

 

[Sanders]

Put me down for legitimate answers
The one given for building 7s collapse is so illegitimate it should be in a Foster Home.

But how would you know?

 

[Sydney Bloods]

1st time posting in this thread so apologies if I repeat something that's already been mentioned in this thread. I still can't believe there are people who still believe the official 9/11 report.

World Trade centres:
- Many workers who survived the attacks say they heard an explosion in the basement before the planes hit.

Yeap the one with the firemen is very powerful.

-The owner of the World trade centre got insurance for "Terrorist attacks" just days before.

Actually the policy was fairly standard and wasnt specific for terrorism it covered a number of policys and was related to the upgrade of towers that had just been completed. In any case that policy was never actually paid out on (possibly due not being processed in time) a settlement was agreed to under the pre-existing policy that had not yet lapsed. Furthermore as it was not and act of war by a state actor or a non state actor acting on behalf of a state even a standard policy would have to pay out like what happened in well......all the other buildings that have been blown up over the years including the first attack on the wtc in 93. It wasn't until after 11/09/01 that companies started specifically excluding terrorism under agreements.

-He, his son and daughter (Who both worked at the WTC) all mysteriously didn't show up at the WTC on 9/11

I wouldn't say mysteriously I'm pretty sure he was one of the people issued a warning on that day. I'll source a link later

- The WTC were renovated and re-painted months before the attacks. Many people believe that a special paint that has gun powder was painted on, thus why the buildings collapsed!

the theory is it was termite paint the girders that look melted seem to support this

-They said that they didn't recover any of the black boxes (never happened before), yet a guy who was working on the recovery said that all the boxes were found.

There's been plenty of cases where black boxes were never found in land crashes and many many more where they were partially recovered or recovered and the data couldn't be recovered. Additionally the biggest threat to black boxes is heat and fire most of the time are unable to recovered in land crashes is due to exposure to fire and heat for an extended period of time.........this ones a blatant lie and should be dismissed anyone who watches Air crash investigation religiously knows this is bs.

-They recovered the passports of the terrorist!! how is that even possible?? You're telling me that they found a piece of paper that should have been burned into ashes??

I still await a doco on 9/11 trying to explain that, but in there defence they do like to point out it was a plastic card not a piece of paper.......it must make all the difference.

-The terrorist all all alive and they were framed by the US Government.

the original BBC story that started this particular conspiracy clarified and corrected their mistake as soon as the yanks released photos, given that logically this simply doesn't make any sense what's so ever (I mean come on you pull off a massive conspiracy and manage to forget to wack the patsys?) this is another that should be put to bed. If anything it is purposely brought up to discredit the "truther" movement. It's laughable and easily dismissed

Pentagon -
There were Dozens upon dozens of security cameras that captured the attack on the pentagon, yet they only release one video??
- The video that they did release actually show that there wasn't a f***ing plane
- even if there was a plane, the impact zone doesn't look like a plane went through it. It should have resembled the shape of a plane but it didn't.

The Pentagon attack is the most damning that the whole truth isn't being told additionally they even seized all videos from anywhere along the flight route including internal footage from a ****ing servo.....you know the same cameras that are so low quality when they get robbed it looks like Claude from GTA3 did the stick up.

- it's impossible to fly the plane that low and accurate. Not even the best of the best can fly a plane like that. The 'pilot' would have had to fly past power lines and trees to hit into the pentagon. IMPOSSIBLE.

far from impossible fighter pilots are trained to do below deck flying for attacks on aircraft carrier's and other naval ships, basically if you can keep the plane at or below the height of the main deck it confuses the ships IFF targeting on wether your in a plane or a boat, but given the size of the plane and the supposed skill of the pilot we can say it was highly improbable and extremely unlikely..

There's more but just can't think of any more now.

 

[Crows_United_FC]

Cheers for replying!
My replies in bold!

Yeap the one with the firemen is very powerful.




Actually the policy was fairly standard and wasnt specific for terrorism it covered a number of policys and was related to the upgrade of towers that had just been completed. In any case that policy was never actually paid out on (possibly due not being processed in time) a settlement was agreed to under the pre-existing policy that had not yet lapsed. Furthermore as it was not and act of war by a state actor or a non state actor acting on behalf of a state even a standard policy would have to pay out like what happened in well......all the other buildings that have been blown up over the years including the first attack on the wtc in 93. It wasn't until after 11/09/01 that companies started specifically excluding terrorism under agreements.

Days before the attacks though....Don't you find that even a little bit odd?

I wouldn't say mysteriously I'm pretty sure he was one of the people issued a warning on that day. I'll source a link later

Cool. I'll happily await it!

the theory is it was termite paint the girders that look melted seem to support this

Yeah that's the the one they said in a 9/11 conspiracy show I once watched!


There's been plenty of cases where black boxes were never found in land crashes and many many more where they were partially recovered or recovered and the data couldn't be recovered. Additionally the biggest threat to black boxes is heat and fire most of the time are unable to recovered in land crashes is due to exposure to fire and heat for an extended period of time.........this ones a blatant lie and should be dismissed anyone who watches Air crash investigation religiously knows this is bs.

I've certainly never heard of any other crash scenes where the boxes were never recovered. Remember these boxes are indestructible and are meant to withstand Fire,Water or anything else that can damage the internal audio recordings. Even if they weren't recovered (Which I believe they were), why shouldn't I believe that guy? What's he got to gain from what he said??


I still await a doco on 9/11 trying to explain that, but in there defence they do like to point out it was a plastic card not a piece of paper.......it must make all the difference.

Possibly fire resistant plastic???? LOL HAHA

the original BBC story that started this particular conspiracy clarified and corrected their mistake as soon as the yanks released photos, given that logically this simply doesn't make any sense what's so ever (I mean come on you pull off a massive conspiracy and manage to forget to wack the patsys?) this is another that should be put to bed. If anything it is purposely brought up to discredit the "truther" movement. It's laughable and easily dismissed

Ahh ok. Yeah it was a British doco that said this. Thanks for clarifying this!


The Pentagon attack is the most damning that the whole truth isn't being told additionally they even seized all videos from anywhere along the flight route including internal footage from a ******* servo.....you know the same cameras that are so low quality when they get robbed it looks like Claude from GTA3 did the stick up.

Yep. It's understandable not releasing the footage from the government cameras...but confiscating footage from surrounding businesses is very odd! What are they hiding?? If the footage from all those cameras are released what will we see?? Maybe instead of a plane, we would see a missile?? That would definitely explain the shape of the impact zone!!

far from impossible fighter pilots are trained to do below deck flying for attacks on aircraft carrier's and other naval ships, basically if you can keep the plane at or below the height of the main deck it confuses the ships IFF targeting on wether your in a plane or a boat, but given the size of the plane and the supposed skill of the pilot we can say it was highly improbable and extremely unlikely..

I worded that wrong. I should have said unlikely rather than impossible. Also just to add that the 'plane' had to make a sharp turn before flying into the pentagon. Also just to clarify that these 'terrorists' supposedly went to an American flight school for a few years before the attacks but as I said even the most experienced of pilots would've had a very difficult time controlling a plane in those circumstances.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Cheers for replying!
My replies in bold!




I worded that wrong. I should have said unlikely rather than impossible. Also just to add that the 'plane' had to make a sharp turn before flying into the pentagon. Also just to clarify that these 'terrorists' supposedly went to an American flight school for a few years before the attacks but as I said even the most experienced of pilots would've had a very difficult time controlling a plane in those circumstances.

Yeah just on the black box thing I should have been clearer the idea that it Alex Jones types have spread that black boxes have been recovered from every land based crash except 9/11 is the lie.

Just off the top of my head there was eastern airlines flight crashed in mountainous area recorders were never found el at flight 1862 crashed into a building only one box was ever recovered badly damaged missing pretty much everything surrounding the crash.

As I said fire and FDR's/CVR's don't mix the most famous case was in France where the CVR was clearly visible in the burning wreckage but due to French law the investigation was handled by police who allowed the fire to burn near the recorder for more then half an hour this made it almost impossible to recover data from it.

In 9/11 you have 4 things most likely destroy a black box in one crash.

First the planes themselves were almost entirely destroyed as the planes were flown directly into the building there's bugger all wreckage from the planes recovered in large chunks, there was no where for the boxes to ejected away from the crash.

Second you have the intense fire burning for an extended period of time.

Third a ton or rubble and wreakage to sort through to try and find it.

Fourth you have the crash site being run by groups other then crash investigators.

I'm actually not surprised they weren't recovered black boxes are tough but they ain't indestructible.

 

[Crows_United_FC]

Yeah just on the black box thing I should have been clearer the idea that it Alex Jones types have spread that black boxes have been recovered from every land based crash except 9/11 is the lie.

Just off the top of my head there was eastern airlines flight crashed in mountainous area recorders were never found el at flight 1862 crashed into a building only one box was ever recovered badly damaged missing pretty much everything surrounding the crash.

As I said fire and FDR's/CVR's don't mix the most famous case was in France where the CVR was clearly visible in the burning wreckage but due to French law the investigation was handled by police who allowed the fire to burn near the recorder for more then half an hour this made it almost impossible to recover data from it.

In 9/11 you have 4 things most likely destroy a black box in one crash.

First the planes themselves were almost entirely destroyed as the planes were flown directly into the building there's bugger all wreckage from the planes recovered in large chunks, there was no where for the boxes to ejected away from the crash.

Second you have the intense fire burning for an extended period of time.

Third a ton or rubble and wreakage to sort through to try and find it.

Fourth you have the crash site being run by groups other then crash investigators.

I'm actually not surprised they weren't recovered black boxes are tough but they ain't indestructible.

Ah ok, thanks for that. I've always thought they were indestructible. Though I'm still not convinced on the 9/11 report regrading the black boxes. I still have suspicions like other people that the Government got to the black boxes before the recovery team. On Jesse Ventura:Conspiracy Theory, they interviewed a guy who was on the recovery team who said he saw the black boxes recovered from the wreckage. Later that night he asked a government official how many black boxes were recovered, and he the official responded by saying that 3 out of the 4 black boxes were recovered so far. When the Official 9/11 report was released he was shocked to read that they didn't recover any of the boxes.

Also Jesse Ventura was also told later in the show that traffic control were aware that the plane was hijacked when it was on the ground yet did nothing to prevent it from taking off.

 

[Kellythatsit]

Yeap the one with the firemen is very powerful..

WTF? That makes zero sense. Why was there a fireman at the wtc before the plane hit?

In fact far from there being many witnesses to explosions before the plane hit, there is actually only one. William Rodriguez. He was also the last person out of wtc1 before it fell.

Unfortunately, no other witnesses concur with him, and no evidence backs it up. Which leads me to the opinion that it is more than likely he is simply mistaken. It's not an unreasonable assumption given the drama that unfolded and the psychological stress he was under that morning. People have been wrong before under much less strenuous circumstances.

Actually the policy was fairly standard and wasnt specific for terrorism it covered a number of policys and was related to the upgrade of towers that had just been completed. In any case that policy was never actually paid out on (possibly due not being processed in time) a settlement was agreed to under the pre-existing policy that had not yet lapsed. Furthermore as it was not and act of war by a state actor or a non state actor acting on behalf of a state even a standard policy would have to pay out like what happened in well......all the other buildings that have been blown up over the years including the first attack on the wtc in 93. It wasn't until after 11/09/01 that companies started specifically excluding terrorism under agreements.

Yeah, sort of ... Close enough

Not too sure why this one never seems to go away. Last I read, The payout from the insurance claim was awarded to Silverstein at $4.6b with cost of rebuilding $6.3b (and rising). That's a massive profit of negative $1.7b.

Of course, that doesn't take into account loss of rental and lease receipts from the wtc complex for the past 12 years despite Silverstein group still being required to pay a $120m annual fee for the rental of ny port authority property.

I hope your blood non-money was worth it Silverstein ...

I wouldn't say mysteriously I'm pretty sure he was one of the people issued a warning on that day. I'll source a link later

A warning from whom? Osama bin Laden, W, Cheney, Oswald ... Oops, sorry wrong conspiracy.

I look forward to this link as it will likely be the first evidence the world has seen of insider complicity on 911

the theory is it was termite paint the girders that look melted seem to support this

... Actually no. Anyone who claims that thermite was used in the paint at wtc doesn't know what wtf they are talking about. Thermite is an incredibly unstable compound that requires precision and care to ignite.

On top of this, a huge amount would be required to cut though the columns at wtc. Just mixing it into some paint and chucking it on a few walls is not going to cut the mustard, let alone steel girders.

Furthermore, I've never ever heard of thermite being used to demolish a building. The reason for this is because the compound needs the help of gravity to do its job and can therefore only cut vertically. So the supposed images of melted beam sets which show horizontal and even more absurdly, diagonal cuts are simply not possible using thermite.

What is about a million times more likely (as well as being the actual reality) is that the cuts shown in the images were created by cutting torches in the days of clean up after 911.

There's been plenty of cases where black boxes were never found in land crashes and many many more where they were partially recovered or recovered and the data couldn't be recovered. Additionally the biggest threat to black boxes is heat and fire most of the time are unable to recovered in land crashes is due to exposure to fire and heat for an extended period of time.........this ones a blatant lie and should be dismissed anyone who watches Air crash investigation religiously knows this is bs.

Alright! You know as a Truther, you are supposed to accept any evidence - no matter how ridiculous, no matter how many times it is proven to be factually incorrect. As long as it refutes the official story it must be accepted as the truth. In fact the more absurd the better - hang the facts.

This is your first warning!

I still await a doco on 9/11 trying to explain that, but in there defence they do like to point out it was a plastic card not a piece of paper.......it must make all the difference.

So identification is being carried by someone on a plane. That plane crashes. In amongst the wreckage part of said identification is found.

???

Not too sure what the big mystery is here but I'm guessing the butler did it.

the original BBC story that started this particular conspiracy clarified and corrected their mistake as soon as the yanks released photos, given that logically this simply doesn't make any sense what's so ever (I mean come on you pull off a massive conspiracy and manage to forget to wack the patsys?) this is another that should be put to bed. If anything it is purposely brought up to discredit the "truther" movement. It's laughable and easily dismissed

This is your second warning, sir!

Your monthly subscription to Fletcher and Fetzer will be cancelled if this continues

Do not test me ...

The Pentagon attack is the most damning that the whole truth isn't being told additionally they even seized all videos from anywhere along the flight route including internal footage from a ******* servo.....you know the same cameras that are so low quality when they get robbed it looks like Claude from GTA3 did the stick up.

.... You mean the CITGO footage which has since been released, yes?

Yes, the darstardly Feds took them. Originally it was estimated to be around 30 - 40 different cameras were operating at the time of the attack in that specific area.

Then after an FOI request the FBI finally had to reveal their hand and in fact they had in their hands a whopping 85 different video recordings from the very moment the plane struck the pentagon.

Of these 85 videos, 56 of them did not show the Pentagon building or crash site or impact.

From the remaining 29 videos, 16 of them showed neither the crash site nor the impact.

12 of the remaining 13 tapes show the crash site after impact only.

Leaving just 1 which did show the impact - the security gate footage that was released way back when.

As for the pentagon attack being the supposed nail in the coffin, well let's just say the evidence is pretty overwhelming. So overwhelming in fact that Truther stalwarts such as Richard Gage, Jim Hoffman, Steven Jones, David Chandler, Frank Legge, Michael Wolesly, The Scholars for 911 truth & Justice etc etc concede that it could only have been a 757 that hit the Pentagon. In fact, they claim the Pentagon theories out there are all disinformation to try and get people off the real cover up (whatever that is - none of them seem to agree). It has started a great split in the conspiracy buffs with one group calling the other government stooges and vice versa.

It is really quite amusing ..,

far from impossible fighter pilots are trained to do below deck flying for attacks on aircraft carrier's and other naval ships, basically if you can keep the plane at or below the height of the main deck it confuses the ships IFF targeting on wether your in a plane or a boat, but given the size of the plane and the supposed skill of the pilot we can say it was highly improbable and extremely unlikely

What pilots actually say is that it would be impossible to fly that kind of craft like that ...

(and here's the bit the conspiracy sites always frustratingly leave out)

... without crashing!

Guess what ... it crashed!

 

[Kellythatsit]

Ah ok, thanks for that. I've always thought they were indestructible. Though I'm still not convinced on the 9/11 report regrading the black boxes. I still have suspicions like other people that the Government got to the black boxes before the recovery team. On Jesse Ventura:Conspiracy Theory, they interviewed a guy who was on the recovery team who said he saw the black boxes recovered from the wreckage. Later that night he asked a government official how many black boxes were recovered, and he the official responded by saying that 3 out of the 4 black boxes were recovered so far. When the Official 9/11 report was released he was shocked to read that they didn't recover any of the boxes.

Also Jesse Ventura was also told later in the show that traffic control were aware that the plane was hijacked when it was on the ground yet did nothing to prevent it from taking off.

Oh ... Jesse Ventura said so

Not too sure if that's a step down, sideways or upwise from Loose Change

Please tell me you at least had a look at the link I posted for you. Many of your questions will be answered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[Sydney Bloods]

WTF? That makes zero sense. Why was there a fireman at the wtc before the plane hit?

In fact far from there being many witnesses to explosions before the plane hit, there is actually only one. William Rodriguez. He was also the last person out of wtc1 before it fell.

Unfortunately, no other witnesses concur with him, and no evidence backs it up. Which leads me to the opinion that it is more than likely he is simply mistaken. It's not an unreasonable assumption given the drama that unfolded and the psychological stress he was under that morning. People have been wrong before under much less strenuous circumstances.



Yeah, sort of ... Close enough

Not too sure why this one never seems to go away. Last I read, The payout from the insurance claim was awarded to Silverstein at $4.6b with cost of rebuilding $6.3b (and rising). That's a massive profit of negative $1.7b.

Of course, that doesn't take into account loss of rental and lease receipts from the wtc complex for the past 12 years despite Silverstein group still being required to pay a $120m annual fee for the rental of ny port authority property.

I hope your blood non-money was worth it Silverstein ...



A warning from whom? Osama bin Laden, W, Cheney, Oswald ... Oops, sorry wrong conspiracy.

I look forward to this link as it will likely be the first evidence the world has seen of insider complicity on 911



... Actually no. Anyone who claims that thermite was used in the paint at wtc doesn't know what wtf they are talking about. Thermite is an incredibly unstable compound that requires precision and care to ignite.

On top of this, a huge amount would be required to cut though the columns at wtc. Just mixing it into some paint and chucking it on a few walls is not going to cut the mustard, let alone steel girders.

Furthermore, I've never ever heard of thermite being used to demolish a building. The reason for this is because the compound needs the help of gravity to do its job and can therefore only cut vertically. So the supposed images of melted beam sets which show horizontal and even more absurdly, diagonal cuts are simply not possible using thermite.

What is about a million times more likely (as well as being the actual reality) is that the cuts shown in the images were created by cutting torches in the days of clean up after 911.



Alright! You know as a Truther, you are supposed to accept any evidence - no matter how ridiculous, no matter how many times it is proven to be factually incorrect. As long as it refutes the official story it must be accepted as the truth. In fact the more absurd the better - hang the facts.

This is your first warning!



So identification is being carried by someone on a plane. That plane crashes. In amongst the wreckage part of said identification is found.

???

Not too sure what the big mystery is here but I'm guessing the butler did it.



This is your second warning, sir!

Your monthly subscription to Fletcher and Fetzer will be cancelled if this continues

Do not test me ...



.... You mean the CITGO footage which has since been released, yes?

Yes, the darstardly Feds took them. Originally it was estimated to be around 30 - 40 different cameras were operating at the time of the attack in that specific area.

Then after an FOI request the FBI finally had to reveal their hand and in fact they had in their hands a whopping 85 different video recordings from the very moment the plane struck the pentagon.

Of these 85 videos, 56 of them did not show the Pentagon building or crash site or impact.

From the remaining 29 videos, 16 of them showed neither the crash site nor the impact.

12 of the remaining 13 tapes show the crash site after impact only.

Leaving just 1 which did show the impact - the security gate footage that was released way back when.

As for the pentagon attack being the supposed nail in the coffin, well let's just say the evidence is pretty overwhelming. So overwhelming in fact that Truther stalwarts such as Richard Gage, Jim Hoffman, Steven Jones, David Chandler, Frank Legge, Michael Wolesly, The Scholars for 911 truth & Justice etc etc concede that it could only have been a 757 that hit the Pentagon. In fact, they claim the Pentagon theories out there are all disinformation to try and get people off the real cover up (whatever that is - none of them seem to agree). It has started a great split in the conspiracy buffs with one group calling the other government stooges and vice versa.

It is really quite amusing ..,



What pilots actually say is that it would be impossible to fly that kind of craft like that ...

(and here's the bit the conspiracy sites always frustratingly leave out)

... without crashing!

Guess what ... it crashed!

Just to clarify, I don't believe 9/11 was an inside job but given the fact that government officials were warned not fly on the day given the fact that important people were told to delay plans to go to NYC that morning.

How quickly the hijackers and plot was worked out I simply don't by the fact that it was a shock to everyone.

My personal belief is that they had reliable Intel that an attack was coming but they just didn't catch it time.

Personally I don't believe the thermite paint theory but I simply don't known enough to discount it, certainly those girders look Like they were at the very least exposed to a cutting torch.

On the explosion's the firemen say they heard they were talking about AFTER the plane had hit. They believed they heard explosions going off in the basements just before the towers fell.Other people also reported this.

my personal belief is that something other then a plane hit the Pentagon the impact zone was perfectly round and no debris was strewn around despite it being fairly regulation crash.

I don't see how anyone could possibly claim that it couldn't be anything other then a plane when the hole was round and on a perfectly straight angle. Your saying only a 757 could possibly do this bullshit there's no way from that impact zone you can say it was a 757 for sure and with the absence of identifiable wreckage I don't see how anyone can support it.

 

[Glacier]

Hi all
Just a little snippet of info to get your jaws around

A long time ago I introduced some info for discussion but it seemed those who fail to question didn't want to kindly have a go at explaining these reports either
From the guardian on 19/09/01
Knives of the same type used in the successful hijacking a were found taped to the backs of fold down trays on a continental airlines flight from Newark grounded on Sep 11
Time 22/9/01 and independent 25/09/01
Knives and box cutters found on two desperate Delta airlines flights , Atlanta to Brussels and Boston to LA, grounded on Sep 11
Reported on CNN 15/10/01
On Sep 14 two knives were found on Air Canada flight bound for New York but grounded on Sep 11
Reported on 14/04/04 in the Chicago Daily
United flight 23 from Boston to La was turned back to the gate without taking off on Sep 11 , 6 passengers initially refusing to leave the plane
Authorities later checked their unclaimed luggage to find Al Qaeda material and copies of the Koran

Are we seeing a pattern here ?

The Chicago Tribune 23/09/01
A box cutter knife was found under a seat cushion on AA flight 160 from San Diego to NY but grounded on Sep 11

Independent on 25/09/01 reported
" that staff at US airports may have played an active role in the conspiracy and helped hijackers circumvent security"

Confused ?
Didn't we have 19 hijackers ?
So if all this stuff was found on grounded flights, how did it all get there and who was responsible ?
Well according to the 9/11 commission these events were so unimportant they didn't rate even a mention

Still confused??
But wait, there is plenty more....

 

[Kellythatsit]

Hi all
Just a little snippet of info to get your jaws around

A long time ago I introduced some info for discussion but it seemed those who fail to question didn't want to kindly have a go at explaining these reports either
From the guardian on 19/09/01
Knives of the same type used in the successful hijacking a were found taped to the backs of fold down trays on a continental airlines flight from Newark grounded on Sep 11
Time 22/9/01 and independent 25/09/01
Knives and box cutters found on two desperate Delta airlines flights , Atlanta to Brussels and Boston to LA, grounded on Sep 11
Reported on CNN 15/10/01
On Sep 14 two knives were found on Air Canada flight bound for New York but grounded on Sep 11
Reported on 14/04/04 in the Chicago Daily
United flight 23 from Boston to La was turned back to the gate without taking off on Sep 11 , 6 passengers initially refusing to leave the plane
Authorities later checked their unclaimed luggage to find Al Qaeda material and copies of the Koran

Are we seeing a pattern here ?

The Chicago Tribune 23/09/01
A box cutter knife was found under a seat cushion on AA flight 160 from San Diego to NY but grounded on Sep 11

Independent on 25/09/01 reported
" that staff at US airports may have played an active role in the conspiracy and helped hijackers circumvent security"

Confused ?
Didn't we have 19 hijackers ?
So if all this stuff was found on grounded flights, how did it all get there and who was responsible ?
Well according to the 9/11 commission these events were so unimportant they didn't rate even a mention

Congrats to the Hawks Glacier, they have been the best team all year and deserve to be premiers.

Now let's get back to using something we like to call our memories and cast our minds back to pre-911 airport security. Back then in the US, people were allowed to carry anything with a blade that was up to 3 inches long onto flights. This included box cutters and pocket knives. Lets also imagine that in the thousands of flights that took place each day leading up to 911 there would be a few of these items that would accidentally and randomly fall out of luggage or pockets, maybe down behind seats or even wedged into the cushion between the arm rest, kicked under seats, fallen out of luggage in overhead compartments . . . How many reports were there - half a dozen? It is not unreasonable to assume that these could have relatively mundane, even everyday reasons for being there before immediately jumping to the conclusion that it was part of the September 11 plot, no matter how tempting.

I'd say that if you went back to any given week in the years before 911 it would be likely that finding these kinds of implements on a few random flights would be fairly routine and forgettable.

Post 911 however, it takes on a totally different dimension. It is easy to imagine weapons being planted by hidden accomplices, even attractive. Newspaper articles rush to print the smallest details about it from unnamed or anonymous sources. It gets our minds firing. Certainly the drab idea of random, everyday accidents is not at all appealing and in the circumstances of the events of September 11 at first seem incredibly unlikely. It must be related, surely. Unfortunately the facts don't back it up.

There is voluminous evidence that there were only 4 teams - 5 hijackers for each team except United 93 (the 5th hijacker in this team was barred from entering the US) aimed at 4 targets. The terrorists have even confirmed this in communications leading up to 911, including an online message from one of the flight 93 hijackers.

OBL has confirmed this in speeches and recordings.

911 mastermind KSM has confirmed it during interrogation and it has been verified by other cell members in custody.

 

[Kellythatsit]

From the guardian on 19/09/01
Knives of the same type used in the successful hijacking a were found taped to the backs of fold down trays on a continental airlines flight from Newark grounded on Sep 11

Intriguing article and would indicate some kind of insider conspiracy. However, is it actually evidence of some nefarious plot or is it simply an unsourced rumour. Lets try to work it out shall we:

First lets look at what the article is saying. Supposedly, on board this flight, someone unknown had taped weapons, similar to those used in the hijackings on Sept 11 onto the backs of the fold down trays. From the beginning that seems illogical - first of all, we don't specifically know what kinds of knives the hijackers used however it is assumed they were box cutters or plastic knives. If a fold down tray did have knives or blades taped to it, wouldn't it have made the tray fairly difficult to fold back up and fasten in place. I know even small items like a sheet of cardboard or thin magazines will cause all sorts of problems with the tray staying in place. Oh well, lets assume they were of sufficient size and scale to allow it, why would an accomplice hide box cutters etc when they could just as easily have hidden guns or even a bomb under the seats or some other secure place on the plane? What if another passenger accidentally sat down in the wrong seat and for what ever reason they needed to use the fold down tray before the error was noted? What if a nosey passenger happened to see one of the supposed hijackers pull the tray down and see them remove the items? Wouldn't they have alerted officials on the plane immediately?

Surely it would have been fairly simple to track down the supposed potential hijackers as well. All that would be needed would be to look at the passenger manifests from the flight to determine who was actually sitting there. We know on the other hijacked flights the terrorists used their actual names and addresses. Seems like it would be fairly routine to nab these guys. Where is the follow up from the Guardian?

Let's not forget also, that this article was published in the immediate aftermath of September 11 when information was flying thick and fast and in the rush to get that next scoop a lot of rumours were being reported as fact (and vice versa). The article lists as it's only source an "unnamed intelligence official". I guess you can't really say it is anonymous . . . but I'd hardly label it as reliable? I guess we will have to wait for upcoming reports confirming "unnamed intelligence official's" claims. Actually, that leads me to my next point. . .

This article only ran in the Guardian, no other news outlet seems to have covered this particular story (that I could find, provide a link if I'm wrong). Is this evidence that the article is not authentic? Absolutely not, but it does indicate that only one outlet seems to think so. Even after it was published the only other report I could find for it was again in the Guardian about a month later. After that it seems to have been dropped completely.

As so often happens, the article looks to be nothing more than general rumour dressed up as fact, particularly around huge events such as 911 - indeed this kind of factoid is the life blood of conspiracy theorists.

However just a small effort at critical thinking provides doubts. There are no corroborating witnesses and the one source that is listed is for all intents and purposes anonymous which leads to questions about credibility. The very fact that there was no real follow up to the story indicates even the publication thought the story was pretty thin and dropped it after a month.

 

[Crows_United_FC]

I was fairly young back in 2001 and haven't researched this at all but how did the hijackers get into the cockpit?? Wouldn't the most logical thing to do while on a flight is to lock the cockpit to prevent Hijackers from taking over the plane?? Especially since it's in the air and there's no escape for the passengers/crew!

 

[Kellythatsit]

Just to clarify, I don't believe 9/11 was an inside job but given the fact that government officials were warned not fly on the day given the fact that important people were told to delay plans to go to NYC that morning.

Which important people were told this? Do you have anything to back this statement up or is it just what you heard?

Personally I don't believe the thermite paint theory but I simply don't known enough to discount it, certainly those girders look Like they were at the very least exposed to a cutting torch.

Yes they were . . . after the collapse, during cleanup.

On the explosion's the firemen say they heard they were talking about AFTER the plane had hit. They believed they heard explosions going off in the basements just before the towers fell.Other people also reported this.

In a burning building, where large objects were falling from 110 storeys to the ground this is hardly out of place or even remotely sinister. Cars that had caught alight from falling debris, parked both in the underground parking lot and around the buildings were exploding, elevators were crashing to the ground. Some people have said they thought they heard explosions until they realised, to their horror, what they were hearing was falling bodies hitting the pavement.

my personal belief is that something other then a plane hit the Pentagon the impact zone was perfectly round and no debris was strewn around despite it being fairly regulation crash.

Have you seen the crash site, there's no way you'd call that hole perfectly round (unless you're referring to the punctured C-ring - the innermost wall - that was made by the landing gear as it flew through it). Also, this rubbish about there being no debris is an absolute furphy spread by pseudo documentaries such as Loose Change and 911 Mysteries. It is demonstrably false as there are several millions of pages on the internet that show parts of the fuselage, seats, childrens toys, engines and yes, the afore mentioned landing gear lying there on the lawn of the Pentagon on September 11.

Have a look, there is this new rage that all the kids are into at the moment - it's called google. Apparently if you type stuff in, other stuff comes up about the stuff you've typed in.

But if you are going to go down this no-plane-at-the-Pentagon path, not only do you need to account for the damage which all experts who've studied the site maintain was caused by a crashing 757, you also have to explain - or at least hypothesise about what happened to flight 77. If it didn't hit the Pentagon, where is it? What happened to all the passengers?

I don't see how anyone could possibly claim that it couldn't be anything other then a plane when the hole was round and on a perfectly straight angle. Your saying only a 757 could possibly do this bullshit there's no way from that impact zone you can say it was a 757 for sure and with the absence of identifiable wreckage I don't see how anyone can support it.

Well, dozens of crash site investigators, forensic experts and yes, even truther stalwarts would disagree with you - but they are just going on the evidence (and for the most part) years of training and experience in the field.

I'm sure gut feeling is a lot more accurate.

 

[Kellythatsit]

I was fairly young back in 2001 and haven't researched this at all but how did the hijackers get into the cockpit?? Wouldn't the most logical thing to do while on a flight is to lock the cockpit to prevent Hijackers from taking over the plane?? Especially since it's in the air and there's no escape for the passengers/crew!

No one really knows, perhaps the hijackers timed their attempt for when the crew were served their refreshments. Perhaps they demanded the cockpit doors opened by threatening to kill crew or passengers. Perhaps they simply took a key for the cockpit door from one of the crew. Perhaps one of them pretended to be a ten year old kid named Joey who likes movies about Gladiators. Who knows?

What we do know is that they got in.