Cars & Transportation .

[The_Doctor]

The problem is that when people believe that exceeding the speed limit makes them dangerous they conclude not exceeding the speed makes them safe - which is very dangerous.

Who the hell is making that point? No one is saying you will be safe so long as you drive at the speed limit. Just because there can be more dangerous things than speeding does not make it a valid argument.


I know my own car cruises very comfortably at 80, but less so at 70. I regularly have to focus on sitting below that comfortable cruising speed because if I go through a 70 zone at 80 I'll end up $100 (or more) out of pocket. I'd prefer to just focus on the road, but hey that's dangerous!

I have no idea what you drive but this sounds like complete nonsense, not once in any car have i ever been sitting on 70 and thought, gee i dont think i can control this, i better whack another 10kms onto the speed limit just to be safe

You cant focus on the road doing 70? How do you even have a license?

 

[Scotland]

Who said anything about control? Different cars have different speeds they comfortably cruise at, and you are naive to think otherwise. My car hums along at 80 better than it does at 70. It's a function of gear ratios, engine type etc.

My point is that constantly watching your speedo to make sure the car doesn't creep up to 75 or 80 is actually counter productive to safe driving. If you drill into people 'speed = bad, speed = bad, speed = bad' you run the risk of having them becoming so speed focused that they lose focus on other factors. Someone driving to conditions that is aware of their surroundings, keeps reasonable distance to other vehicles etc. that slips 5 or 10 km/h above the speed limit is not more dangerous than someone who is paranoid about sticking to the limit exactly above all other things. Surely it isn't that hard to grasp?

 

[vealesy]

I only speed when tailgating and listening to my I-plod with headphones.

 

[brett15]

Speeding is one single factor out of many that can contribute to an accident, but no one would disagree that the faster one gets the more dangerous it is. That's just common sense.

The problem in Victoria is the government have latched onto speeding like it's the single most dangerous act a driver can do, and ignore many other credible factors such as variances in vehicle type; motorbikes, trucks, 4wds, utes and sedans all handle and respond differently, vehicle condition/age/make, road conditions, driver skill & experience and so on. They do acknowledge driver concentration and awareness, and for good reason as this relates to driving under influence of drugs/alcohol.

It's the other ignored factors that make speed limits somewhat arbitrary. It would be interesting to see a comparison in stopping distance between a motorbike, sedan and truck on both dry and wet roads. Would a truck stop faster then a motorbike that's traveling 10-15kms faster then it? What about a semi-trailer carrying several tonnes? The speed limit for all vehicle types is the same, even though a semi-trailer traveling at 80kms is clearly more dangerous then a small car traveling at the same speed.

But it's no secret these other factors are ignored for a bigger reason, the government wouldn't want the promotion of their anti-speeding campaigns to be undermined, which we all know is essential for validating speeding fines and generating the revenue associated with them.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

Simple solutions to try and help.

1. When going for your licence, you should have to pass EVERY question, instead of being allowed to get a few wrong, meaning you still dont know these rules, you should have to re- sit until you pass 100%.

2. If your caught hooning or excessively breaking the law, take the car and destroy it, give a $10,000 fine or put them in jail for 3 months, and take their licence off them or put them on 0 demerit points for 2 years.

Something like this, you get the idea. It's not hard to increase the punishment, after all it's already there, just make it harder. I mean, if your gonna knock 3 points off me or give me a suspended sentence, big deal.

Lets see how many idiot drivers there are then.

 

[HurlsMeister18]

Speeding isnt ok in most instances. If you are caught speeding, deal with the fine. Don't hate on the cops, it was entirely in your hands. I never understand the hatred for the Police when it was entirely your fault, not your cars fault, not the cops fault, not the speeding signs fault. Your fault.

OK Officer

 

[vealesy]

Simple solutions to try and help.

1. When going for your licence, you should have to pass EVERY question, instead of being allowed to get a few wrong, meaning you still dont know these rules, you should have to re- sit until you pass 100%.

2. If your caught hooning or excessively breaking the law, take the car and destroy it, give a $10,000 fine or put them in jail for 3 months, and take their licence off them or put them on 0 demerit points for 2 years.

Something like this, you get the idea. It's not hard to increase the punishment, after all it's already there, just make it harder. I mean, if your gonna knock 3 points off me or give me a suspended sentence, big deal.

Lets see how many idiot drivers there are then.

How do you define hooning?

Here in WA if you lose traction you get your car impounded if caught.

Are you saying if I do a "harmless to any other person" wheelie, I should go to gaol?

I completely agree with your first point, but point 2 is a ****en pathetic idea.

Increase education and training because it works.

Increasing penalties is NOT an effective deterrent, ever.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

How do you define hooning?

Are you saying if I do a "harmless to any other person" wheelie, I should go to gaol?

I completely agree with your first point, but point 2 is a ****en pathetic idea.

Increasing penalties is NOT an effective deterrent, ever.

I define hooning however the Police define it. They have laws which indicate what hooning is.

Increasing penalties DOES deter people, thats why we have penalties in the first place. If I do 10km over the limit and get fined $130, it's makes me more cautious, but not enough to really worry about if I accidentally go over by a few kms. If I was fined $700 there is no way in the world I'd do it again.

 

[brett15]

I'd rather people have mandatory defensive driving courses, with a 5 year refresher. The advanced courses make you spin the car out in the wet and teach you how to take control of it again.

Doing burnouts in the wet (in a safe location) also teaches you car control.

 

[Scotland]

I'd prefer people just learned how to drive in the first place.

Over here you have to do 25 hours of supervised driving in addition to the usual practical test, theory test etc. which is more than was required when I did mine (2001) but still isn't that strenuous.

Preventing drivers from doing 120 in a 110 zone is a minor issue when you consider that there are potentially people doing 110 for the first time in a motor vehicle. In order to get a driving license you should be required to drive under professional instruction at high speed (110-120, not 200), in the rain, at dusk, at night... Etc.

 

[Lemma]

Defensive driving courses are good, I did one about six months ago. I agree I would recommend to any driver, particularly young drivers.

 

[MarcusP2]

I define hooning however the Police define it. They have laws which indicate what hooning is.

Increasing penalties DOES deter people, thats why we have penalties in the first place. If I do 10km over the limit and get fined $130, it's makes me more cautious, but not enough to really worry about if I accidentally go over by a few kms. If I was fined $700 there is no way in the world I'd do it again.

More likely you'd eventually realise that it's highly unlikely you'll be caught and go back to doing 10km over the limit.

People don't expect to be pinged, that's why increased penalties are an inefficient deterrent.

 

[Simple Jack]

Simple solutions to try and help.

1. When going for your licence, you should have to pass EVERY question, instead of being allowed to get a few wrong, meaning you still dont know these rules, you should have to re- sit until you pass 100%.

2. If your caught hooning or excessively breaking the law, take the car and destroy it, give a $10,000 fine or put them in jail for 3 months, and take their licence off them or put them on 0 demerit points for 2 years.

Something like this, you get the idea. It's not hard to increase the punishment, after all it's already there, just make it harder. I mean, if your gonna knock 3 points off me or give me a suspended sentence, big deal.

Lets see how many idiot drivers there are then.

Say you're doing a responsible 95 down a 4 lane freeway in the right lane. There are some roadworks on during the week but it is night on the weekend and as such all the equipment is gone and only one sign remains on the far left of the road. As you momentarily look down to check your speed and make sure you are doing a 'safe' 5kmh below the speed limit you go past this sign and don't see it. The cops catch you doing 55kmh over the speed limit which I think would be defined as 'hooning' (not sure if this is considered excessive speeding).

You should be imprisoned for 3 months?

I would have thought that's a tad excessive.

 

[Simple Jack]

Even more stupid argument

More like the logical extension of his argument, and a likely continuance of speed limit trends of the past few years.

Some roads have gone from 60 to 50 to 40 to 30.

What's next?

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

Say you're doing a responsible 95 down a 4 lane freeway in the right lane. There are some roadworks on during the week but it is night on the weekend and as such all the equipment is gone and only one sign remains on the far left of the road. As you momentarily look down to check your speed and make sure you are doing a 'safe' 5kmh below the speed limit you go past this sign and don't see it. The cops catch you doing 55kmh over the speed limit which I think would be defined as 'hooning' (not sure if this is considered excessive speeding).

You should be imprisoned for 3 months?

I would have thought that's a tad excessive.

The prison is one option, not the only one. Obviously those in charge would put a bit more time into deciding the penalties than what I did, but it's the point Im getting across.

I don't think that would count as "hooning". But yes, that person should be penalised accordingly. Generally when someone hoons, its recorded or they are caught doing it (driving like an idiot, burnouts all the way down the street etc). I dont believe you are found to be hooning soley on what a speed camera records you at.

 

[kfc1]

Say you're doing a responsible 95 down a 4 lane freeway in the right lane. There are some roadworks on during the week but it is night on the weekend and as such all the equipment is gone and only one sign remains on the far left of the road. As you momentarily look down to check your speed and make sure you are doing a 'safe' 5kmh below the speed limit you go past this sign and don't see it. The cops catch you doing 55kmh over the speed limit which I think would be defined as 'hooning' (not sure if this is considered excessive speeding).

You should be imprisoned for 3 months?

I would have thought that's a tad excessive.

You should be able to get out of it in court if there's not signs on both sides of the carriageway. Having speed signs on both sides of the carriageway is specified as an Australian Standard for Temporary Traffic Management so if the ******s in charge of TTM at that site haven't done their job properly then you shouldn't be punished. The single sign on the left side of the road, on the ground, can easily be obscured by other vehicles.

Unfortunately this is the situation on the Kwinana Freeway at the moment where it goes from 100 to 60 - there's no signs on the right side of the road so if you are in the middle or right lane its easy to miss the lone sign.

 

[Simple Jack]

The prison is one option, not the only one. Obviously those in charge would put a bit more time into deciding the penalties than what I did, but it's the point Im getting across.

I don't think that would count as "hooning". But yes, that person should be penalised accordingly. Generally when someone hoons, its recorded or they are caught doing it (driving like an idiot, burnouts all the way down the street etc). I dont believe you are found to be hooning soley on what a speed camera records you at.

I'm almost certain that at a nominated amount above the speed limit is classified as 'hooning.' I think it's either 45km/h or 60km/h.

You should be able to get out of it in court if there's not signs on both sides of the carriageway.

I'm pretty sure LRL44 was advocating strict liability offences with mandatory sentencing for 'hooning'. So unless you could prove you didn't do it, you wouldn't be getting off it in court.

Having speed signs on both sides of the carriageway is specified as an Australian Standard for Temporary Traffic Management so if the ******s in charge of TTM at that site haven't done their job properly then you shouldn't be punished. The single sign on the left side of the road, on the ground, can easily be obscured by other vehicles.

I seem to recall reading about a case in Victoria last year or the year before about a guy trying to get off a speeding fine because the cameras in Victoria don't meed federal standards. Even though it was proved that they don't meet them, he still didn't get off so I don't think this would work either.

Unfortunately this is the situation on the Kwinana Freeway at the moment where it goes from 100 to 60 - there's no signs on the right side of the road so if you are in the middle or right lane its easy to miss the lone sign.

Yeah, this is also a common occurance on the freeways in Melbourne, especially the Ring Road, that's why I used it as an example.

They seem to be perpetually in a state of development and the temporary limits are always left up even when there is no work or being done or equipment being left.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

I'm almost certain that at a nominated amount above the speed limit is classified as 'hooning.' I think it's either 45km/h or 60km/h.

Yeh I believe it is 45km/h as well as a whole lot of other offences. But in all serious, anyone driving 45km/h over the limit really has no excuses. I bet no -one here has ever been caught 45km/h over the limit without realising, as you stated in regards to proper signage.

In a normal world, going 105km/h in a 60 zone, or 85km/h in a 40 zone is just plain stupid and there are no excuses.

You can be sure the first thing the judge will tell you once you argue your case is, ignorance is no excuse. If your watching what your doing, then there shouldnt be a problem.

 

[kaysee]

I had a 1st series F6 Typhoon and took it out for a test drive to Woomera (near lake Eyre) from Adelaide one day... just I could open it up and see how fast I could go.

Found a nice long stretch of straight road, bugger all either side of the road and no traffic for miles... got it up to 235kph before road became too bumpy and me to scared. IIRC it was chip limited to 255kph.

On the way back I was sitting on about 180kph and slowing down anytime a car went the other way. Saw a motorbike approaching and slowed down to about 140kph (in a 110 zone) and the bike started slowing too. It was a cop who shook his head as I drive by. Decide to keep it slower from then and stayed between 110-130.

Anyway, separately, later on I did end up getting 2 huge fines within 2 weeks: 95 in a 60 zone (whilst overtaking) and 135 in a 100 zone in the country. Lucky as it was just before they bought in the instant loss of license for those speeds.

Now though I've got a new FJ Cruiser so I can go off road for kicks... too expensive to get your kicks on road these days.

 

[BomberFletch31]

Unfortunately this is the situation on the Kwinana Freeway at the moment where it goes from 100 to 60 - there's no signs on the right side of the road so if you are in the middle or right lane its easy to miss the lone sign.

That's fairly obvious, though, since not only does it go from 3 lanes to 2, concrete barriers either side of the road, and the lanes are significantly narrower in that section. Personally, I don't think there's any excuse for mistaking that as a 100 zone. It's 80 when no work is being done, anyway.

 

[Alexwce]

Blaming speed limits is an excuse for inability to time manage efficiently, that or you are a selfish individual who deserves to be caught.

Generally there is no valid reason to speed. If the speed limit was increased, people would still speed and then continue to whine.

 

[vealesy]

Blaming speed limits is an excuse for inability to time manage efficiently, that or you are a selfish individual who deserves to be caught.

Generally there is no valid reason to speed. If the speed limit was increased, people would still speed and then continue to whine.

Blaming it for what?

Do speed limits make you feel safe on the road?

 

[Alexwce]

Blaming it for what?

Do speed limits make you feel safe on the road?

Should I ruminate over the relevance your question carries? Because it isn't about me, it is about all who use the road. This includes pedestrians, cyclists and drivers.

Most speed limits are sensible and there is no sagacious justification for excessively breaking the speed limit. It isn't people breaching the limits by 1-3km/ph, it's the people who infringe the limit with no consideration to others.

A change in speed limit will serve no purpose, drivers will carry on speeding with no consideration to others road users.

 

[vealesy]

So if the consideration of others is such a big factor in the policing of the road traffic act, why can I lose my license and bike by speeding on a straight road in the middle of nowhere, with nobody but a cop hiding in the bushes?

Or one of any other examples, of these ridiculous "hoon laws" that are "protecting the community".

Speeding CAN be dangerous for a poorly skilled driver or an unroadworthy car.

Pinging people for speeding is largely revenue raising disguised as "saving lives". Dont forget, the police force is a business too.

Its bullshit. We are still a penal colony.

 

[Helicopter Punt]

A change in speed limit will serve no purpose, drivers will carry on speeding with no consideration to others road users.

Have you published the results of your research yet?