a different view

[pumped]

Hi Guys,

This is my first post so please excuse any first up eticate slip ups. I am not sure how often I will post but thought I would start with my philosophies about the Carlton Footy Club. I have supported the club for 35 years and want nothing more than to see us play at our full potential. Unfortunatly I think we are one of the more dishonest teams in the comp. By this I mean that we play less to our potential than many other teams. Every team has a mix of players who are gifted with a variety of natural talent. The best teams are those who have the spirit to accept their ability as a gift and focas 100% on using this gift. In our side I believe some of our most gifted players are Camporeale, Stevens, Houlihan, Lappin, Kouta, Whits, Waite, Thornton. The list could go on as we really do have many gifted players who have the potential to be All Australians. Our problem is that many of our leaders are not performing at an honest level. They are not accepting the gifts they have and in my opinion are playing arrogant or soft football. By soft I mean mentally soft not gutless. When this happens they set a bad example and actually detract from the performance levels of our battlers who rely on the leaders to inspire them to play to the best of their less gifted abilities. Two of our worst offenders are Camporeale and Stevens. Too often their mental energy goes to worrying about taggers and umpiring decisions and as such are not totally focassing on the game at hand. They dont man up enough, give away free kicks thru undisciplined tackles and retaliations and for players of their ability are often lazy with their disposal. On the other hand someone like Thornton is 100% all the time in his focas/awareness and is reaping the rewards. I know that Campo and Stevens are high on stats but I think in their cases the stats are hiding the seriouisness of the problem. With the list we have if we play honest to our ability we would be a definite top 4 side within 18-24 months. If our leadership group starting especially with the 2 mentioned players can let go of their victim mentality then I believe they will inspire our side to an immediate and drastic improvement. I should note however that I dont believe that all of our leaders are dishonest as some are performing and some others are restricted through injury. An example of an honest team is the bulldogs who do appear to give an honest effort each week. They havent got our ability but they rarely put in performances that lack spirit or dedication. This is all I want to see from our team.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

I agree with you totally and welcome aboard.
Campo is a disapointing leader in my opinion,
Stevens its too early to put him under the microscope.

For more Carlton chatter go to www.theblueview.org
Theres a Carlton Supporters Club board too but i dont have the address with me right now.
Maybe someone else can post that link up. (Sheik)?

 

[LordLucifer]

The Carlton Supporters Club is a full blown website containing forums discussing all things Carlton, downloads for CFC screensavers, desktop wallpaper, the club song and the fixture for the next 22 rounds. There are Encyclopedias of past and current players plus photo albums to peruse at your leisure as well as much, much more. You can submit stories, pictures, statistics or anything you think might be useful.

www.csc.gotdns.com

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I do, I do like green eggs and spam, I do I do Sam I am.

Pretty sure such an auspicious first post deserves a decent response rather than an ad campaign fellas.

Welcome pumped and I concur with your thoughts too. It's been an epidemic around Carlton for a while.

Apart from the guys you have mentioned, we had Allan, Murphy, McKernan who also shirked the issue many times for non-existent or petulant reasons. I fear that Lance sometimes falls into this trap but hopefully is starting his traditional mid-season revival. I think the culture became somewhat lazy around the club at some point, probably ever since Parkin handed over so much power to the senior players ironically in our last premiership year - 1995. It worked that year because the quality of senior player was so high - Kernahan, Bradley, Ratten, Silvagni, Madden to name a few. I think a few young players that played under these guys assumed a level of control but couldn't replicate the efforts but the culture remained. Pagan has certainly ruffled a few feathers removing that power base. I think Denis feels that he would be hung drawn and quartered for touching Campo with the delisting brush and with Stevens being the next 'messiah'. Stevo has his excuses as a new boy and has had a couple of decent performances but really Campo should be performing and giving his all for more than 1 in every 3 matches.

So much talent just draining from the club for a variety of reasons.

Kouta, Waite, Campo, Stevens, Fevola, Thornton, Walker, Whitnall, Lappin = nucleus of a flag winning side but for one reason or another, we can't get them fit and firing at the same time. Throw in Norman, Sporn, Teague, Scotland, Fisher, De Luca, Houlihan for your next solid tier and there is some serious talent there.

I still think we can make it with many of these guys.

 

[LordLucifer]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's
Pretty sure such an auspicious first post deserves a decent response rather than an ad campaign fellas.

Agree, but seeing as there was a request asked of me I obliged.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Originally posted by TheSheik
Agree, but seeing as there was a request asked of me I obliged.

Compliant as always Sheik. What a guy!

 

[LordLucifer]

I forgot to put inthe winking emoticon but you beat me to it.

 

[Gosainters68]

Oh boy

A couple of points:
Spelling mistakes-
- etiquette (I'll forgive this one)
-focus (you've got to be kidding, to get THIS one wrong)

Now, you've posted a "War and Peace" message in about 2000 lines without ANY paragraph breaks.
No-one will bother to read something like that !!!!!

Don't write such volume; keep it a fair bit shorter, and most importantly, break it into paragraphs...
each one concentrating on ONE major idea or topic.

Then leave a line at the end of each paragraph.

This makes it much easier on the eye
and more people will read it.

Saints to win by 106 points...
your team is a "Rabble"
to quote Jack Elliott

 

[BlueBoy83]

Originally posted by pumped
Hi Guys,

This is my first post so please excuse any first up eticate slip ups. I am not sure how often I will post but thought I would start with my philosophies about the Carlton Footy Club. I have supported the club for 35 years and want nothing more than to see us play at our full potential. Unfortunatly I think we are one of the more dishonest teams in the comp. By this I mean that we play less to our potential than many other teams. Every team has a mix of players who are gifted with a variety of natural talent. The best teams are those who have the spirit to accept their ability as a gift and focas 100% on using this gift. In our side I believe some of our most gifted players are Camporeale, Stevens, Houlihan, Lappin, Kouta, Whits, Waite, Thornton. The list could go on as we really do have many gifted players who have the potential to be All Australians. Our problem is that many of our leaders are not performing at an honest level. They are not accepting the gifts they have and in my opinion are playing arrogant or soft football. By soft I mean mentally soft not gutless. When this happens they set a bad example and actually detract from the performance levels of our battlers who rely on the leaders to inspire them to play to the best of their less gifted abilities. Two of our worst offenders are Camporeale and Stevens. Too often their mental energy goes to worrying about taggers and umpiring decisions and as such are not totally focassing on the game at hand. They dont man up enough, give away free kicks thru undisciplined tackles and retaliations and for players of their ability are often lazy with their disposal. On the other hand someone like Thornton is 100% all the time in his focas/awareness and is reaping the rewards. I know that Campo and Stevens are high on stats but I think in their cases the stats are hiding the seriouisness of the problem. With the list we have if we play honest to our ability we would be a definite top 4 side within 18-24 months. If our leadership group starting especially with the 2 mentioned players can let go of their victim mentality then I believe they will inspire our side to an immediate and drastic improvement. I should note however that I dont believe that all of our leaders are dishonest as some are performing and some others are restricted through injury. An example of an honest team is the bulldogs who do appear to give an honest effort each week. They havent got our ability but they rarely put in performances that lack spirit or dedication. This is all I want to see from our team.

I agree with you ...

Basically it frustrates me when 'experts' say we have a weaker team than say the dogs at the weekend. IMO we have a much stronger team and much more potential but for one reason or another we always find a reason to let a game get out of our grasp. last weekend it was as soon as french went off. i never realised how important he was to the side until this.

nevertheless. i think at the end of the year we should look at picking up a kpp, hopefully chb. someone in the ilk of a tom harley style player. someone who can control the backline, someone who will help out the likes of thornton and norman.

a backline with thornton, harley (type player), norman, teague, bowyer, lappin is pretty formidable.

i think that our midfield is much better than last year, however, it really ****es me off when the likes of campo and stevens can't make more of an impact more oftent. i remember stevens getting 36 touches and murdering us last year at optus, i wonder when he'll win a game for us?

our forward structure will continue to improve. i just hope lance can get himself fully fit, atm he's suffering from a knee injury. with deluca improvement (at chf not ruck), and fev's development i think we have one of the best forward structures going round. it just dissapoints me we can't deliver it better and get it in quicker for these guys.

therefore im resided to the faite of us not making the finals this year. however, i just hope we can avoid the wooden spoon. i know it sounds pesimistic, but its so open this year, any team out of the 8 could potentially get it. i dont think it justifies our improvemnt.

however, if we can't give it a real shake next year, well i think we will have to really look at ourselves. how does essendon, with not that great a list keep making the finals?? its in their attitude and belief therefore they play above themselves. i just wish we could learn a bit from them and start playing to our potential.

i could keep rambling but there my thoughts.....

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

I believe a Carlton supporter should have as many options as possible to express their frustrations.
Sorry if i spammed
And thanks Sheik.

 

[DIG]

Re: Re: a different view

Originally posted by BlueBoy83
I agree with you ...

Basically it frustrates me when 'experts' say we have a weaker team than say the dogs at the weekend. IMO we have a much stronger team and much more potential but for one reason or another we always find a reason to let a game get out of our grasp. last weekend it was as soon as french went off. i never realised how important he was to the side until this.

nevertheless. i think at the end of the year we should look at picking up a kpp, hopefully chb. someone in the ilk of a tom harley style player. someone who can control the backline, someone who will help out the likes of thornton and norman.

a backline with thornton, harley (type player), norman, teague, bowyer, lappin is pretty formidable.

i think that our midfield is much better than last year, however, it really ****es me off when the likes of campo and stevens can't make more of an impact more oftent. i remember stevens getting 36 touches and murdering us last year at optus, i wonder when he'll win a game for us?

our forward structure will continue to improve. i just hope lance can get himself fully fit, atm he's suffering from a knee injury. with deluca improvement (at chf not ruck), and fev's development i think we have one of the best forward structures going round. it just dissapoints me we can't deliver it better and get it in quicker for these guys.

therefore im resided to the faite of us not making the finals this year. however, i just hope we can avoid the wooden spoon. i know it sounds pesimistic, but its so open this year, any team out of the 8 could potentially get it. i dont think it justifies our improvemnt.

however, if we can't give it a real shake next year, well i think we will have to really look at ourselves. how does essendon, with not that great a list keep making the finals?? its in their attitude and belief therefore they play above themselves. i just wish we could learn a bit from them and start playing to our potential.

i could keep rambling but there my thoughts.....

That was some fine spelling dude - and the paragraph breaks were so well timed. Be enough to have any St Kilda troll shaking with excitement!

 

[BlueBoy83]

Re: Re: Re: a different view

Originally posted by DIG
That was some fine spelling dude - and the paragraph breaks were so well timed. Be enough to have any St Kilda troll shaking with excitement!

Mate i typed my thoughts as they came into my head ... It's not a fricken essay!! If ne one wants to troll me, go for it ... care factor's pretty low!!

I'd prefer responses to my thoughts .... not the b/s about my grammar or whatever!!

 

[Jimmae]

Personally I rate Johnson as a potential AA. He has skills and he's in and under.

As for your post pumped:

Promise, opportunity, application, consistency, belief, fruition.

I will say no more.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Pumpd, I couldn't possible disagree with that and welcome.

 

[DIG]

Re: Re: Re: Re: a different view

Originally posted by BlueBoy83
Mate i typed my thoughts as they came into my head ... It's not a fricken essay!! If ne one wants to troll me, go for it ... care factor's pretty low!!

I'd prefer responses to my thoughts .... not the b/s about my grammar or whatever!!

I was taking the p1ss out of someone else, not you - dunno if you realised that or not.

Anyways, for the record I agreed with most of what you said, but I think people are maybe being a bit harsh on Stevens. He might not have quite lived up to expectations yet, but i didn't expect him to come over and win matches for us off his own boot.

I'd love a "Tom Harley type" tho. CHB's the hole we need to fill the most, and has been for some time.

 

[BlueBoy83]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: a different view

Originally posted by DIG
I was taking the p1ss out of someone else, not you - dunno if you realised that or not.

Anyways, for the record I agreed with most of what you said, but I think people are maybe being a bit harsh on Stevens. He might not have quite lived up to expectations yet, but i didn't expect him to come over and win matches for us off his own boot.

I'd love a "Tom Harley type" tho. CHB's the hole we need to fill the most, and has been for some time.

ahhh no worries mate ... now i get it!

agree about stevens, i think ppl are too hard on him too, he has played solidly in all games i can remember.

i think lance is our big missing link .... i just hope he can overcome his knee problem and reqain fitness. i feel sorry for the bloke, he gets so much crap about his fitness, when he's been hampered by his knee all year.

about johnson i rate the bloke highly as well. reminds me of haselby, except he's a left footer, but in terms of being inside player and not that quick but a ball magnet.

this weekend will be a huge test for mott .... i don't think we'll realise how important french was (altough every1 including me bagged the bloke) until we play the next few games. i feel sorry for the bloke cos he was just hitting his straps, kicked a great goal and now he'll be out for up to 10 weeks.

 

[LordLucifer]

Originally posted by Jimmae
Personally I rate Johnson as a potential AA. He has skills and he's in and under.

Not so sure about him being AA but I do believe that he will do pretty well in our B&F.

 

[pumped]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all your replies to my first post. You have made my step into the unknown a very pleasant experience.

Many of you have mentioned that perhaps it is too early to write off Nick Stevens. I definitly believe that he is an exceptionally talented player and hope that he becomes a long term Carlton champion. However like many of our more talented players I believe that his mental energy is not totally dedicated to the contest.

Players who are focused mentally in my opinion play on instinct rather than playing reactive football. Kouta is a good example of the different performance levels that a player can exhibit dependant upon his mental state. When Kouta is confident he shows amazing vision and awareness and performs what appears to be the impossible. When his confidence is down he has days where he cannot hit a target and appears to have no energy to chase, tackle or man up. Houlihan can also show this range of performance. It isnt the ability that is changing it is the mental outlook.

The solution to the varying performance levels comes down to a combined effort throughout the whole club. It is a culture thing and depends upon everyone from the coach to the most junior player working togeather with honesty and integrity. It means everyone having the courage to help eachother be it to pull some players back to earth or to encourage others to regain their self belief. Even the coach should not be exempt. If the leadership group believes that Denis could reach certain players in a better way then they should feel able to freely approach Denis.

If the side can adopt this integrity and group commitment then all of our players will improve. In this envireoment our stars will be great [including Campo and Stevens] and our lesser talents will become solid contributors.

 

[Jimmae]

Originally posted by TheSheik
Not so sure about him being AA but I do believe that he will do pretty well in our B&F.

Sorry I should have been more clear... not AA this year... but I believe he will become highly regarded in the next few years.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Re: Oh boy

Originally posted by Gosainters68
Saints to win by 106 points...
your team is a "Rabble"
to quote Jack Elliott

I'll cut you some slack since you are new BUT .... you don't go on team boards calling that particular team 'a rabble'. Discuss or debate sensibly by all means but leave attitude outside our door as per BF posting conditions.

Thanks