News A rectangular stadium for Adelaide ?

[raptalia]

Nothing like a title to whip up a bit of 'what if' among the sporting big wigs. In today's paper the CEO of FFA David Gallop and Adelaide United Chairman are dreaming of a rectangular pitched stadium next to Adelaide Oval.

Soccer has clearly missed the boat as far as a purpose built rectangular stadium is concerned and it is refreshing that someone has last decided to go public. There are however a few realities to deal with if FFA wants such a stadium near the AO.

First and foremost is the impact and the uproar from the lobbyists who are sure fight such a proposal.

Secondly is the land they are contemplating building it on. I am sure that Adelaide No2 is leased to the SACA more than likely on a perpetual lease so to build a stadium on that site would not only need State Government and ACC approval but would possibly require a deal to be struck with the SACA and we know how hard they are to deal with.

Thirdly and most importantly is the cost. The State Government are saying they do not have the money to upgrade Coopers at an estimated cost of 65-75M so where would the taxpayers get the money to fund a new stadium? The cost would depend upon the capacity which in turn would hinge on FIFA specifications. There appears little point of building a stadium that does not conform to FIFA World Cup requirements. At the same time it is pointless paying for a 50,000 seat stadium that is only half full most of the time.

Finally there is the question of programming. If you are going to build a purpose built stadium next to the AO you have to ensure that matches in two codes are not programmed for the same time. if a United game and an AFL game coincided or were within four hours of each other the existing infrastructure would not cope. The existing rail and tram network has trouble getting people away from a single AFL match let alone and AFL and A League game. The A League season would have to fit the existing schedule which means the A league fitting in with the status quo. This can be done but it will take cooperation.

A Rectangular Pitched Stadium that could host both A League and NRL games is a must for Adelaide and building one next door to AO is a good concept but it needs careful thought and planning and that is not something sporting codes have been good at in SA.

 

[Greasyrhys]

Definitely a pipe dream, especially with the current government being tight on money. Also why build a massive rectangular stadium right next door to Adelaide Oval? Sounds very similar to Eddie's 'Emptyhad demolition' plan (60k stadium right next to the MCG).

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Win the 2030 Commonwealth Games and the government might spend the money on a rectangle stadium with a roof that becomes a multi purpose venue. Can't see it happening without getting the Games. Rob Gerard is leading the push to get the Games so he will get monies for a stadium and benefit his Adelaide United.

 

[raptalia]

Win the 2030 Commonwealth Games and the government might spend the money on a rectangle stadium with a roof that becomes a multi purpose venue. Can't see it happening without getting the Games. Rob Gerard is leading the push to get the Games so he will get monies for a stadium and benefit his Adelaide United.

It will need something like that. Not sure I will be around in 2030 to see it though, come to think of it Rob Gerard will be 85 in 2030.

 

[scotty13]

A state of the art rectangular stadium is something this state needs... The stadium would need to built to FIFA standards (or at least built at 30k with ease to add an extra 20k should the World Cup come down under)... and could attract NRL, NFL, Wallabies, Kangaroos and more International soccer (Socceroos and travelling European sides).

The stadium though would need to compliment AO, especially if it is to be placed next to it and if it gives Adelaide 2 world class stadiums = a very happy me.

 

[Jim Dixon]

Win the 2030 Commonwealth Games and the government might spend the money on a rectangle stadium with a roof that becomes a multi purpose venue. Can't see it happening without getting the Games. Rob Gerard is leading the push to get the Games so he will get monies for a stadium and benefit his Adelaide United.

????

#carn

Can't imagine any Canadian city bidding on the Comm. games for a while. Taxpayers still wincing from Vancouver 2010!

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

????

#carn

Can't imagine any Canadian city bidding on the Comm. games for a while. Taxpayers still wincing from Vancouver 2010!

Why the question marks? Olympics net cost is about $5bil to $10bil to stage depending on how much new infrastructure is built. The Comm Games is around a 10th of that. Gold Coast have 2018 and Durban 2022 so only 1 other city has to successfully bid for 2026 and 2030 is alive. If the Comm Games adapt, they are still relevant. Plus as lots of Asian and African nations become richer the Comm Games will mean more for them are interested in hosting, India, Malaysia, Nigeria, South Africa etc. Adelaide and Hobart are the only Oz capital cities that haven't hosted them, so they will be interested. They are also a good way to build up to an Olympics bid - a trial run. No Brisbane in 1982, means no Sydney in 2000. Toronto have made a couple of Olympic bids this century, but the last one they pulled out because Vancouver won the winter games and they weren't going to give Toronto the summer games 2 years after Vancouver. So maybe Toronto will go for 2026 Comm games as a showcase for 2032 or 2036 Olympics with the final votes for those games being in 2025 and 2029 respectively.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

A state of the art rectangular stadium is something this state needs... The stadium would need to built to FIFA standards (or at least built at 30k with ease to add an extra 20k should the World Cup come down under)... and could attract NRL, NFL, Wallabies, Kangaroos and more International soccer (Socceroos and travelling European sides).

The stadium though would need to compliment AO, especially if it is to be placed next to it and if it gives Adelaide 2 world class stadiums = a very happy me.

I think its a wants over a needs. Its hard to justify a $300+m spend when you have Adelaide Oval able to do the job and you only have Adelaide United.

Melbourne have the Storm, the Rebels, the Victory and City so that means they will play at least 40 games there and may up to 50 each year depending on how many games are moved to Docklands for the blockbuster games and finals with crowds being between 15k and 31k sell out for every game. The Vic government spent $267m when they had 2 of those 4 teams in existence and the other 2 were guaranteed by their national sporting bodies.

 

[scotty13]

I think its a wants over a needs. Its hard to justify a $300+m spend when you have Adelaide Oval able to do the job and you only have Adelaide United.

Melbourne have the Storm, the Rebels, the Victory and City so that means they will play at least 40 games there and may upto 50 each year depending on how many games are moved to Docklands for the blockbuster games and finals with crowds being between 15k and 31k sell out for every game. The Vic government spent $287m when they had 2 of those 4 teams in existence and the other 2 were guaranteed by their nation sporting bodies.

Yeah, it would be nice to get a NRL team here in SA... I don't think the crowds would be any worse that what the NRL currently get. After all the expansion the Super 14 (or is it 16 or 18 or 20 now I have lost count) has done in recent years, Im assuming SA isn't on the radar for a side.
Maybe a deal could be done with the FFA and have a new stadium here as a training base for the Matildas and home of the girls? Could help offset the costs...

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Four words. Residents of North Adelaide.

Will never happen.

 

[LukeSA]

Four words. Residents of North Adelaide.

Will never happen.

You could bring it down to two words but i forgot that dour bitches name who seems to be the face of "North Adelaide whingers inc™"

Does SA have the population to make a new soccer stadium viable?

 

[Jim Dixon]

Toronto have made a couple of Olympic bids this century, but the last one they pulled out because Vancouver won the winter games and they werent going to give Toronto the summer games 2 years after Vancouver. So maybe Toronto will go for 2026 Comm games as a showcase for 2032 or 2036 Olympics with the final votes for those games being in 2025 and 2029 respectively.

I doubt it. They hosted the Pan-Am games last year which was seen as a trial for a bid for 2024. They did a very good job too, and there were murmurings about bidding for 2024, but the city baulked at the cost. Ontario isn't suffering from the low oil price as much as some places but the Canadian federal budget is in massive deficit and taxpayers won't wear insanities like Olympic bids.

In 2009 when Toronto bid for the 2015 Pan-Am games the price of oil was close to $100 a barrel. Times have changed and ambitions have been clipped.

How much interest is there in Australia in the Commonwealth Games? In Canada they're low on the radar- the Pan-American games are probably a bigger deal now. I don't think there was any tv coverage of the last Comm. Games.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I doubt it. They hosted the Pan-Am games last year which was seen as a trial for a bid for 2024. They did a very good job too, and there were murmurings about bidding for 2024, but the city baulked at the cost. Ontario isn't suffering from the low oil price as much as some places but the Canadian federal budget is in massive deficit and taxpayers won't wear insanities like Olympic bids.

In 2009 when Toronto bid for the 2015 Pan-Am games the price of oil was close to $100 a barrel. Times have changed and ambitions have been clipped.

How much interest is there in Australia in the Commonwealth Games? In Canada they're low on the radar- the Pan-American games are probably a bigger deal now. I don't think there was any tv coverage of the last Comm. Games.

Comm Games are low on the radar but when they come on they rate very highly. The AOC pushes hard for them as a test run for the Olympics. The Comm Games have been adapting and include lots of commonwealth type sports and rotate others in and out.

The feds contributed $150m for the Sydney Olympics then a special grant of about $20m for the Paralympics late in the piece to help get 350,000 kids to the Paralympics from around OZ to watch for free and help with travel and accommodation costs.

It was the NSW government that signed the contract with the IOC and took the risk as the Sydney Council dont have the tax revenue to take on that risk. If Toronto went for the Olympics it would be the Ontario government and Toronto council who would be signing the contract not Ottawa.

I have a NSW Auditor General's report from mid 2002 about 50 pages long that says the net cost to the NSW government budget from winning the bid in late 1993 to March 2002 when ORCA was shutdown, it cost the NSW govt net $1.95 bil to host the games and Paralympics over that 8.5 year period. They got the privite sector to build the village and private sector spend $550m of the $670m to build Stadium Australia.

But NSW was booming, real state market meant they were flooded with stamp duty revenue plus pokie licences were sold to pubs for the first time and the 2006-07 NSW budget was the first one in 12 or 13 years that was a deficit, including all the Olympic spending over most of that 12 or 13 years. Its one of the reasons why Sydney is still seen as such an outstanding success.

 

[Garibaldi Red]

You could bring it down to two words but i forgot that dour bitches name who seems to be the face of "North Adelaide whingers inc™"

Does SA have the population to make a new soccer stadium viable?

Anne Moran be that name I believe

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The other thing that was good about Sydney games was that it forced the NSW government to build a lot of infrastructure and as Private Public Partnerships were all the rage back then and Macquarie were big world wide players in this and HQ was in Sydney, a PPP was done to build the train line from Central to the airport. Another PPP was done for the eastern distributor which took most of the traffic coming off the 1992 opened Sydney tunnel and funneled that to the eastern suburbs, airport and M5. Then a shit load of toll Motorways ie M3, M2, M7 etc were built or started to be built and some finished after 2000 as PPPs and the Olympics were the impetuous to get them started.

 

[Jim Dixon]

It was the NSW government that signed the contract with the IOC and took the risk as the Sydney Council dont have the tax revenue to take on that risk. If Toronto went for the Olympics it would be the Ontario government and Toronto council who would be signing the contract not Ottawa.

True that. It was the BC govt who pushed for and got the Vancouver Winter Olympics. I don't know much about the state of Ontario finances. I still can't imagine that Toronto will be able to make a serious push for the Olympics for a while.

Canoogs would be better placed then I would to comment though.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

True that. It was the BC govt who pushed for and got the Vancouver Winter Olympics. I don't know much about the state of Ontario finances. I still can't imagine that Toronto will be able to make a serious push for the Olympics for a while.

Canoogs would be better placed then I would to comment though.

2024 is between LA, Rome, Paris, Budapest and one other city that might have dropped out. If LA gets the games which is a big chance, given that in 2013 the IOC and USOC finally came to an agreement over US TV money sharing and sharing the 10 company TOP sponsorship monies - 8 of the 10 are big US firms and the yanks last hosted it in 1996, then Toronto will probably bid for the 2036 games, maybe 2032, but Oz and Asia nations are expected to bid heavily for those as 2020 is Tokyo and there tends to be a 12 year cycle ie
Americas then Europe/Africa then Asia/Oceania which is partly driven by timezone and TV requirements.

So if Toronto was making a bid for 2036 they could try and host the Comm Games in 2026, open their bidding in 2027 with the vote for host city in September 2029. They will set their compass once the 2024 hosting vote is taken in September 2017 to see if LA wins.

 

[Jim Dixon]

2024 is between LA, Rome, Paris, Budapest and one other city that might have dropped out.

Hamburg, they dropped out after a referendum in November.

(sorry to hijack this stadium thread with 2024 Olympic talk...)

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Hamburg, they dropped out after a referendum in November.

(sorry to hijack this stadium thread with 2024 Olympic talk...)

Unfortunately Olympics, Comm Games and World Cups - Cricket, Rugby Union etc is when stadiums in Oz get built or redeveloped. A FIFA World Cup as we saw in the 2010 bid for either 2018/2022 WC would have seen a couple of new rectangle grounds and major upgrades of rectangle and oval stadiums around Oz.

Adelaide Oval is somewhat unique in the last 25 years that it went thru a major redevwlopment without being driven completely by one of these events, however bidding for the WC was an important driver as there was a 2010 election in SA and there was a big push in 2009 to get a proper bid in for Oz for the world cup and Adelaide had to have a suitable stadium. Burswood is being built independent of a world event "coming to town" need but it was also driven somewhat by Perth having to have a venue lined up in the 2010 FFA bid book for the WC.

Even Docklands was conceived with the Sydney Olympics in mind with the need for a venue to get Olympic soccer and then to compete with Sydney post Olympics for events. The AFL got in there to make sure it became an oval. The Gabba had a 15 year 7 stage development plan but the desire to get 6 games of Olympic soccer brought that development forward 9 years ahead of schedule. Oz hadn't won hosting rights for the 2003 Rugby Union WC when the Beattie government in 1997 decided to upgrade the Gabba. 12 months later OZ got the right to host the WC and to get a semi final + 1/4 and 5 or 6 other games Beattie decided on a $250m upgrade of Lang Park/Suncorp. The AFL and Lions lucked out by about 12 months otherwise it would have been a slow redevelopment at the Gabba.

That's why I say a new $300m rectangle stadium will need a big event to drive it and a 2030 Comm Games is shorter on the horizon than a 2050-2070 FIFA World Cup.

 

[Jim Dixon]

That's why I say a new $300m rectangle stadium will need a big event to drive it and a 2030 Comm Games is shorter on the horizon than a 2050-2070 FIFA World Cup.

Yes this is the only event that would get the govt. to pony up. Not sure even then that it's a great idea. With football and cricket committed to Adelaide Oval and Hindmarsh Stadium big enough for the needs of A-League (and any potential NRL expansion team in Adelaide) it would be a white elephant. The Socceroos and the Wallabies will always want to play at Adelaide Oval when they come to town.

Even Sydney with all the codes haven't been able to figure a way to get the best use out of Stadium Australia (like AFL Tables I decline to recognise stadium sponsorship deals...)

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Yes this is the only event that would get the govt. to pony up. Not sure even then that it's a great idea. With football and cricket committed to Adelaide Oval and Hindmarsh Stadium big enough for the needs of A-League (and any potential NRL expansion team in Adelaide) it would be a white elephant. The Socceroos and the Wallabies will always want to play at Adelaide Oval when they come to town.

Even Sydney with all the codes haven't been able to figure a way to get the best use out of Stadium Australia (like AFL Tables I decline to recognise stadium sponsorship deals...)

If Sydney Olympic Park had a 30,000 student university and 60,000 permanent resident and workforce in the SOP area it would work better as it would have direct trains rather than the doing the Lidcombe sprint, ie catch the train to Lidcombe, then cross over the line and wait up to 10 minutes to get the train that takes about 6 minutes to get to SOP station. Part of the NSW government fast train to the new airport to Badgery's Creek is to have an 11 minute only 1 other stop fast train trip between central and stadium oz. That would help make it more popular along with spending the proposed $700m and changing it from an oval to a rectangle with a retractable roof.

Personally I reckon the SA government should spend $200m on a 20,000 indoor multi purpose stadium and stick it in Victoria Square - the council is always talking about doing stuff to Vic Square - and you copy what they have done in Brooklyn with the Barclay's Center which sits on where 8 trainline intersect and its been a fundamental part of Brooklyn's urban renewal. The roads would go under the Vic Square stadium.That way the council gets the Federation Square type atmosphere it has been banging on about for years to get at Vic Square.

That way you consolidate the 36ers, The Lightning and Thunderbirds in centre of town, thats also where you have your large concerts so maybe 80 events per year and when the Comm Games is on, you have a great venue for lots of different indoor sports. With the money you get from selling AEC and the other venues you could plough into Hindmarsh make it 25,000 with grandstand roofs all the way round the rectangle to protect people from the heat of an Adelaide summer at Hindmarsh.

 

[Canoogs]

True that. It was the BC govt who pushed for and got the Vancouver Winter Olympics. I don't know much about the state of Ontario finances. I still can't imagine that Toronto will be able to make a serious push for the Olympics for a while.

Canoogs would be better placed then I would to comment though.

They have a lot of facilities here already following the success of the Pan Ams last year. Speaking as someone who lived here during the event, the complete lack of significant impact on the city was amazing. Many were expecting the trafficapocalypse on the 401 every day. Many were surprised that they didn't bid for 2024. I would be not at all surprised if they were to bed for 2036. I live near the velodrome that was built for the Pan Ams and it's a fantastic facility.

I'd expect that the City of Toronto would be the major financier of a bid, with the support of the Ontario government. Surprisingly, that was probably more likely when Rob Ford was mayor as he was very pro-sports.

Perhaps this is the place to break the news, but I'm actually going to be departing this fair land in the next couple of months. I am pumped for Sunday July 24th for what will hopefully be my first ever game at Adelaide Oval!

 

[Jim Dixon]

Perhaps this is the place to break the news, but I'm actually going to be departing this fair land in the next couple of months. I am pumped for Sunday July 24th for what will hopefully be my first ever game at Adelaide Oval!

Congratulations! I hope someone alerts Benny D at memberships so you can get a special welcome home, given you've been away so long.

I wonder if there's any other members in Canada?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

They have a lot of facilities here already following the success of the Pan Ams last year. Speaking as someone who lived here during the event, the complete lack of significant impact on the city was amazing. Many were expecting the trafficapocalypse on the 401 every day. Many were surprised that they didn't bid for 2024. I would be not at all surprised if they were to bed for 2036. I live near the velodrome that was built for the Pan Ams and it's a fantastic facility.

I'd expect that the City of Toronto would be the major financier of a bid, with the support of the Ontario government. Surprisingly, that was probably more likely when Rob Ford was mayor as he was very pro-sports.

Perhaps this is the place to break the news, but I'm actually going to be departing this fair land in the next couple of months. I am pumped for Sunday July 24th for what will hopefully be my first ever game at Adelaide Oval!

The Toronto 2008 Olympics bid was very impressive and finished 2nd to Beijing, by a fair margin but that was politics rather than quality of the bid. They were going to develop the Toronto Waterfront use the land around Toronto Island/Docks and build several sports stadiums there as well as the village and the rowing and canoeing was to use the existing ship canal/channel which meant you could have tens of thousands of spectators either side watch as there would be a few bridges and it was to be free and 15 minute walk from City Hall. They also would use Ontario Place. there were going to be 17 sporting of the 35 venues needed (2 of the 35 were the village and media centre) were right on the water, or just back from it like the Air Canada Centre. 6kms apart and 85% of the athletes would be competing at these 17 venues. The others were 5 soccer venues and 11 around greater Toronto or other cities for the sports that are usually a long way from the main action ie, equestrian, mountain biking, softball, shooting, and some indoor sports arenas that had the minor round preliminary games ie basketball, volleyball, boxing etc.

Having lived in Toronto I was most impressed by it all and how tight the venues were to downtown. In some of the reading I noted the head of the bid said this would be a once in a life time opportunity to build these sports centres so close to the downtown area, as some of the land maybe sold in the future. Canoogs do you know if these areas, as per image below, especially down by the docks have been sold off in the Toronto boom years of 2006-13??

I reckon Adelaide would struggle to produce such a compact Commonwealth Games let alone Olympic Games. Canoogs send me a PM when you get back and we can catch up at the GDV before or after a game.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Ok back to a rectangle stadium. Back in February 2008 Adelaide United chairman Dario Fontanarosa unveiled his plans for a new city-based sporting stadium and signalled its intention to build a $270 million, 45,000 seat soccer stadium on the fringe of Bonython Park. He revealed he had been working on the project for two years after visiting Germany during the 2006 World Cup and his model is based on a stadium in Frankfurt which hosted the World Cup quarter-final between Brazil and France. We had this thread about a new stadium on this BDC board that started in late 2007
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/fans-want-new-stadium-not-new-lights.400483/

But we didn't quote The Advertiser story and its no longer on the net but Austadiums has it in full at
http://www.austadiums.com/news/news.php?id=355

The stadium model as per the picture below, had no grandstand roof or retractable roof and then 2 months later it was revealed that the cost was in fact $475mil. Ford Fairlane quoted the full article at this post and here are the relevant bits
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...m-not-new-lights.400483/page-11#post-10787385

Fontanarosa's master plan to construct a purpose built all-seater undercover rectangular stadium is starting to take shape with overseas investors prepared to partly fund the project....."I don't want Adelaide United to play on a round oval or a running track around it," he said....."It has to be a purpose-built soccer stadium. They're talking about billions (to build one) which is not true. A FIFA-approved world-class stadium is $10,500 a seat." Fontanarosa's stadium project has been costed at $475 million for a 45,000 all-seater stadium. He believes that the continual growth of the game will force Adelaide into moving to a bigger home - away from Hindmarsh Stadium. "We're aiming at 25,000 to 30,000 crowds for Adelaide United matches," he said..

Then on the rest of page 11 of that thread we debated why it had blown out $205m and the conclusion was either a) it was a fully retractable roof like Docklands stadium or b) they completely ****ed up the calculations in February. Basically we concluded he left out the cost of a retractable roof as the stadium at Frankfurt had a retractable roof but not steel like Docklands but a translucent plastic material. This was all done as part of the talk of Oz putting in a bi for 2018 FIFA World Cup. Later in 2009 FIFA decided to offer 2018 and 2022 at the same time in December 2010.