Ablett compensation debate resurfaces

[Barabbas]

I get the feeling all this debate could have been avoided if they'd numbered the picks, rather than making them just first rounders.

ie: We might get 1 & 5 for ablett. Dees get 1 & 16 for Scully. (Which is still overs)

 

[Cat for Life]

Melbourne actually got more compensation than us due to them being more likely to finish lower on the ladder and hence will receive an earlier compo pick. Guess it evens out though since we have Wells using the pick.

 

[topic97]

Meh who really cares - we are the reigning premiers!!

But yeah, it does seem a little loaded towards the lesser teams. Melbourne have enough first rounders out on the park!!

 

[Boxhead_31]

We could have had Ablett 'sign' with us on the prviso that we trade him to GC for a bundle of early picks, but then GC may have taken another Geelong player as their freebie.

Besides, there is something smelly about a player and club signing a contract that is false on the proviso of ripping off the system. I'm not sure that would have been seen as 'asute'

It turns out in the wake of this trade period.

Gary was still contracted* to us when the deal to the GC was done same as Cornes, Brogan and Power if Gary had come to us and said I'm taking the GC offer we would have been able to deal with the GC for a range of draft picks but with the risk if we didn't get a deal done Gary could have gone to the draft of PSD for zero compensation

*The AFL came out yesterday and said that all players are still contracted to the PSD which is why the Power are still under threat of losing players to the GWS because Cornes/Brogan weren't uncontracted players

 

[Pure_Ownage]

It turns out in the wake of this trade period.

Gary was still contracted* to us when the deal to the GC was done same as Cornes, Brogan and Power if Gary had come to us and said I'm taking the GC offer we would have been able to deal with the GC for a range of draft picks but with the risk if we didn't get a deal done Gary could have gone to the draft of PSD for zero compensation

*The AFL came out yesterday and said that all players are still contracted to the PSD which is why the Power are still under threat of losing players to the GWS because Cornes/Brogan weren't uncontracted players

I think you're confusing ideas a bit.

In the Cornes/Brogan scenario the issue wasn't the compensation per se, it was Port wanted them to take them either before the thursday of trade week (i.e. as they did with Reid from WBD) or in the ND/PSD so that they counted as uncontracted players, thus protecting the club from future raids. GWS made clear that if this was what Port were going to do then they wouldn't take them and they would be without a club so both parties compromised, Port got a pick which helped them get Ebert, but not protection.

The point I am making is that in Ablett's case we could not have kept him longer or sign and traded him, well we could have made the offer but he could have said no. Ablett was free to sign with them up until the date and the club couldn't stop that. With Cornes/Brogan they were equally free to sign up as uncontracteds, the issue was that GWS were not prepared to take them as uncontracteds. GC were always prepared to take Ablett uncontracted of course, so I can't see what we could have done differently unless Ablett himself had insisted on signing and then being traded, but the club couldn't have done that, he would have had to.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your argument but there's the difference I think.

 

[Boxhead_31]

I think you're confusing ideas a bit.

In the Cornes/Brogan scenario the issue wasn't the compensation per se, it was Port wanted them to take them either before the thursday of trade week (i.e. as they did with Reid from WBD) or in the ND/PSD so that they counted as uncontracted players, thus protecting the club from future raids. GWS made clear that if this was what Port were going to do then they wouldn't take them and they would be without a club so both parties compromised, Port got a pick which helped them get Ebert, but not protection.

The point I am making is that in Ablett's case we could not have kept him longer or sign and traded him, well we could have made the offer but he could have said no. Ablett was free to sign with them up until the date and the club couldn't stop that. With Cornes/Brogan they were equally free to sign up as uncontracteds, the issue was that GWS were not prepared to take them as uncontracteds. GC were always prepared to take Ablett uncontracted of course, so I can't see what we could have done differently unless Ablett himself had insisted on signing and then being traded, but the club couldn't have done that, he would have had to.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your argument but there's the difference I think.

Nailed it PO what I was surprised about was that the contracts went until the PSD thought they ended at the end of GF.

I'm not arguing that the compo picks aren't fair. What I was trying to say is if Gary knew he was going to the GC prior to the trade period we could have tried to work a package similar to the Judd situation knowing that if we got too greedy in the dealings there was a risk we would loose Gary for nothing.

Not saying we should have taken a Ross Lyon / Luke Ball type stance but if we were able to deal with the GC as per a normal trade we might have been able to get something better than pick 15 and whatever our second compo pick turns out to be all the while knowing that if we pushed the GC to hard they were well within there rights to say stuff you then we will ND/PSD him and you will get nothing

 

[Cat for Life]

I think you're spot on PO. GC and Gaz had no intention of letting us trade for him. Why give up draft picks when you can just pick him up for free (the compo picks did not cost GC anything).

 

[Turbocat]

Why would GC trade for Ablett? They had dibs on him as an Out of Contract Player.

The special conditions the GC and GWS have been given equate to what will happen next year with FA , except it was open to any out of contract player and they had a lot more SC to use. The AFL structured this farce to ensure the new clubs got max benefit , they gave nothing for Ablett or any other OCP.

Add to that , for Ablett to put any criteria on his recruitment would have then impeded GC's ability to pay him his max or their ability to get the best list.

For example. I sure would have like GA to have said , yes ( as he did) but with the criteria of I want a mate player x to come as well. Lets say Byrnes etc. To then get GC to pay over the odds (P15)for him would have shown his care for our club. But again , thats not what this was about. All established clubs knew they would be short term pain by the new clubs to some degree.

Geelongs pain is great but due to our list we have a high tolerance for pain. As show by winning the GF

 

[pinion]

Not saying we should have taken a Ross Lyon / Luke Ball type stance but if we were able to deal with the GC as per a normal trade we might have been able to get something better than pick 15 and whatever our second compo pick turns out to be all the while knowing that if we pushed the GC to hard they were well within there rights to say stuff you then we will ND/PSD him and you will get nothing

why would the gold coast trade for someone they could get for nothing?

also, this could have left us wide open for them to take someone else.

 

[jim boy]

Ablett could also have gone into the PSD and been picked up by GC without us getting diddly squat and still leaving us open for another player to go to GC.

 

[Cat for Life]

Ablett could also have gone into the PSD and been picked up by GC without us getting diddly squat and still leaving us open for another player to go to GC.

This would be treated as him leaving as an uncontracted player, we would still receive the compo picks and they won't be able to get another player.

This point was seen in the Mitch Clark deal, if he had entered the PSD and GWS picked him up then Brissie would have gotten compensation for it.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Nailed it PO what I was surprised about was that the contracts went until the PSD thought they ended at the end of GF.

I'm not arguing that the compo picks aren't fair. What I was trying to say is if Gary knew he was going to the GC prior to the trade period we could have tried to work a package similar to the Judd situation knowing that if we got too greedy in the dealings there was a risk we would loose Gary for nothing.

Not saying we should have taken a Ross Lyon / Luke Ball type stance but if we were able to deal with the GC as per a normal trade we might have been able to get something better than pick 15 and whatever our second compo pick turns out to be all the while knowing that if we pushed the GC to hard they were well within there rights to say stuff you then we will ND/PSD him and you will get nothing

Of course he did

But the point I was trying to make with Cornes/Brogan is GWS did a trade because there was something in for them-they didnt have to use up their uncontracted slot as they didn't want to. GC were very happy to use up their 1 geelong uncontracted slot on Ablett, so what incentive could have compelled them to trade when they could get him for free? It would never have happened unless Ablett said 'I won't go unless you trade for me' which is why I said there's nothing the club could have done about it.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Ablett could also have gone into the PSD and been picked up by GC without us getting diddly squat and still leaving us open for another player to go to GC.

Incorrect. Players taken in the PSD still attract compo picks and count as uncontracted (why is why GWS were so keen to trade for Cornes/Brogan). This was put in place to stop GC/GWS convincing players to walk into the PSD and leave their clubs with nothing.

 

[Boxhead_31]

This would be treated as him leaving as an uncontracted player, we would still receive the compo picks and they won't be able to get another player.

This point was seen in the Mitch Clark deal, if he had entered the PSD and GWS picked him up then Brissie would have gotten compensation for it.

That has been what I've been trying to get at we could have tried to trade for better picks with the fall back position of the compo picks being in play if things didn't work out

 

[Pure_Ownage]

That has been what I've been trying to get at we could have tried to trade for better picks with the fall back position of the compo picks being in play if things didn't work out

But why would GC have been willing to do that?

 

[Boxhead_31]

But why would GC have been willing to do that?

Why were Carlton willing to work with West Coast?

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Why were Carlton willing to work with West Coast?

Because Judd insisted.

Same here, like I said, Ablett had to insist, which he didn't.

Such is life.

 

[Turbocat]

Why were Carlton willing to work with West Coast?

Carlton did not have the same ability that GC did. They either had to trade or he went to psd for someone else and WC got zip. So West coast traded with the Blues.

 

[Supercats]

But why would GC have been willing to do that?

GC wouldn't want to do that and I agree with that, however Ablett could have forced there hand and made them trade. Which if he loved the club as much as he made out he would have done.

It's over and done with now and I try not to hold a grudge against Ablett, but I do think he was worth at least 2 top 5 picks and more, I know GC and the AFL would have came up with some devious plan to stop this scenario, but Ablett could have at least tried.

The way the compo was worked was flawed from the start which Scully highlighted this year. I try not to let it get to me but F$%K we were screwed by the AFL/GC and ABLETT.

 

[_Me_]

ablett was a trecherous little boy

his celebrations after the 09 flag were to negotiate a deal with GWS, and then go on an os holiday with 20 odd relatives funded by the afl

if he was half smart and not greedy, he would have demanded the GC trade for him or he would not sign for him. he then would have come out and declared his love for the gfc, and that he did not want to wreck the club by asking for a market rate of pay, but he had ensured that the club was rewarded for losing him

but then again he only thought about himself, and spent the year signed to gc and getting pissed because he did not win an individual award

it is not in the ablett nature to give, just take take take

PS when will the new merchandise be released
Nath and Gaz

 

[Supercats]

ablett was a trecherous little boy

his celebrations after the 09 flag were to negotiate a deal with GWS, and then go on an os holiday with 20 odd relatives funded by the afl

if he was half smart and not greedy, he would have demanded the GC trade for him or he would not sign for him. he then would have come out and declared his love for the gfc, and that he did not want to wreck the club by asking for a market rate of pay, but he had ensured that the club was rewarded for losing him

but then again he only thought about himself, and spent the year signed to gc and getting pissed because he did not win an individual award

it is not in the ablett nature to give, just take take take

PS when will the new merchandise be released
Nath and Gaz

When you take into account the full Ablett Story,
Secret Meeting instigated by Ablett
Signed AOU
and the whole Ablett website/merchandise angle

I do lean towards your thinking on the whole situation.

But in saying that I do understand why he took the offerr $$$$$$$$$$$$$.
It's just the underhanded way he went about it that really got to me.

But time to get over it and hope he nevers wins a Premiership at the GC.

 

[pinion]

that has been what i've been trying to get at we could have tried to trade for better picks with the fall back position of the compo picks being in play if things didn't work out

but why would they have traded good picks for players they could get for nothing!!!!!!!

 

[_Me_]

but why would they have traded good picks for players they could get for nothing!!!!!!!

if ablett stipulated he would not sign unless they traded for him

was never going to happen

 

[Rosso]

Bridge time gents. We won a flag, he won a spoon.

He's still a champ and I love watching him play but he's gone so move on.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

ablett was a trecherous little boy

his celebrations after the 09 flag were to negotiate a deal with GWS, and then go on an os holiday with 20 odd relatives funded by the afl

if he was half smart and not greedy, he would have demanded the GC trade for him or he would not sign for him. he then would have come out and declared his love for the gfc, and that he did not want to wreck the club by asking for a market rate of pay, but he had ensured that the club was rewarded for losing him

but then again he only thought about himself, and spent the year signed to gc and getting pissed because he did not win an individual award

it is not in the ablett nature to give, just take take take

PS when will the new merchandise be released
Nath and Gaz

pretty strong opinion there....everyone is entitled to it as well

I will always be forever grateful to Ablett senior for his lasting memories and impact on the game in helping it become exciting.
He even had people who don't follow the code turn up just to see him play.

Was always tracking Gazza jnr's progress as it became news he had some serious talent in the late 90's & was being watched by scouts/tv crews.
I saw his very 1st game at the MCG against Essendon even then I walked away thinking that he had something different but I always was content that he'd never ever be a replacement to his father.

As great as what jnr is today, the Geelong footy club have proven that no individual is greater than the team.
I just hope he feels some disappointment in missing out on a 3rd premiership medallion and who knows how many more?

After we are all gone as time goes by, all that will ever matter is how many premierships a player and his team can achieve.
Cats will ensure the Gold Coast Suns cop a belting every single time they play for many years ahead