Academy Watch

[Nunez]

Not the response I expected.

I don’t have your contacts to the academy, so can’t comment on what you posted.

I don’t necessarily agree with you, so wasn’t giving your post a like, but wanted to give you a response, that I had read your and was bowing out of the conversation.

Ok.

 

[Dalions]

I would imagine the Academy has taken a substantial hit in the last 2 years with budget cuts and Covid situation.
So can kind of understand Parents and kids being pretty frustrated with the Academy in the last couple of years.
I would have thought with Paul Hendrickson taking over the Academy it might have helped the situation as he come to the club highly regarded with the development of young players.

 

[Nunez]

I would imagine the Academy has taken a substantial hit in the last 2 years with budget cuts and Covid situation.
So can kind of understand Parents and kids being pretty frustrated with the Academy in the last couple of years.
I would have thought with Paul Hendrickson taking over the Academy it might have helped the situation as he come to the club highly regarded with the development of young players.

Have heard good things re the changes the academy made leading into this year. It's got plenty of (no pun intended) development left in it before it's a truly elite program, but it'll get there.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

That discussion kind of morphed from a lament that no Qld kids were drafted (besides the pre-listed Suns kids). I made the observation that changes to list sizes have made it hard on the guys that would normally go late in the national draft or as a rookie, which is how a lot of Qld kids get drafted. After that, it dredged up a whole of opinions from posters who are involved with local footy to one degree or another.

While I get the impression there is a lot of valid criticism on there, there are a lot of vested interests on that board, from club presidents/board members to parents of kids who didn't get drafted. I get the impression that many won't be able to trust the Academy for a good while no matter what.

I wonder if the club had the choice whether could do without it and go back to the old system. I would agree that the level of talent doesn't seem to have increased over the years commensurate with the increase in junior numbers over the last 10 years.

 

[NeverEddie]

So basically the Lions are putting their resources towards developing the top tier talent they're able to identify in the talent pool?

From a Lion's perspective, I completely get that. Definitely looks like the communication could be done better with the less talented kids though.

If all they are doing is this then they are not really doing what they said they would do are they. So my view is that they are just paying lip service to the community. But it is one thing to fail to live up to a particular part of their remit. It is another thing entirely to, in effect, do the opposite. And that is where most of the criticism is coming into it.

With due respect, it is a little disrespectful and condescending of you to say that they simply need to communicate better to the less talented kids. How about . . . . developing them? That's what the promised was and that is all that is wanted from most of them. Not all the kids in the academy are there expecting to get drafted (despite what some posters keep derisively saying about "superstars running around in a lions singlet". They are there because they are good footy players who love the game and want to get better. QAFL would be a goal for many of them. After all . . . you can't have academy games with three-a-side.

The below is from the academy tab of the lions website.

 

[M Malice]

IMO the academy should be an elite junior talent pathway and not for hundreds of kids from under 12s upwards. I have watched a lot of junior footy over the last few years while my grandson and granddaughter have gone through the junior ranks... a couple of years in the highest division available. The number of kids you watch and think gee that kid is a special talent is quite low, for me I've only seen a single handful if that in that time.

Maybe have an elite development Lions academy for the select few and a separate program for others run through selected QAFL clubs.

 

[NeverEddie]

The number of kids you watch and think gee that kid is a special talent is quite low, for me I've only seen a single handful if that in that time.

Maybe have an elite development Lions academy for the select few and a separate program for others run through selected QAFL clubs.

There are two schools of thought on talent. One is that talent is born. The other is that it is developed. Like all truths, it is likely somewhere between both these extremes. One take on this is that the academy is only really looking for the born. So, sure, have an elite program. The lions will have 3 in their squad and the suns might have 3. They will miss the hard workers that might not be as natural a talent but have guts and heart (but ask yourself this. Of those two types of player (natural vs guts and heart), which one is actually more likely to survive in the modern AFL system?) With an elite program they will also fail to increase the standard of local football (which they are already failing at anyhow). . .so maybe someone can go into the Lions website with an eraser and rub out the BS parts of their academy spiel.

 

[KissKiss]

There is a lot of discussion on whether you should put all your eggs into one basket or spend widely and bring as many kids along as possible. Or somewhere in between

The other problem that seems to be getting raised is our academy has a reputation for identifying talent early and then sticking with them only. If they arent reassessing periodically (especially as kids go through different growth spurts and development stages) then they really are failing.

 

[M Malice]

There are two schools of thought on talent. One is that talent is born. The other is that it is developed. Like all truths, it is likely somewhere between both these extremes. One take on this is that the academy is only really looking for the born. So, sure, have an elite program. The lions will have 3 in their squad and the suns might have 3. They will miss the hard workers that might not be as natural a talent but have guts and heart (but ask yourself this. Of those two types of player (natural vs guts and heart), which one is actually more likely to survive in the modern AFL system?) With an elite program they will also fail to increase the standard of local football (which they are already failing at anyhow). . .so maybe someone can go into the Lions website with an eraser and rub out the BS parts of their academy spiel.

On the 2 bolded >

Obviously 3 is not enough, as you say "somewhere between" is the answer, maybe enough for a 22-25 person squad in each age group U12/14/16 of the elite program.

IMO sports all over the world prove that generally you need both, people say guys like Michael Jordan, Lionel Messi are natural talents but when you read stories/get testimony on them form teammates they're also the hardest workers in training.
__________________________________________________________________________
IIRC there are 2-3 kids from our junior club in the Lions academy and from the little I have seen and been told they are your average not too bad not too good player. There is 1 player at the club who is 14 years of age and for me he is a special talent, other more high profile clubs have attempted to recruit him but he is not interested, says he just wants to play with his mates, he is not in the Lions academy, not interested in that either.

 

[briztoon]

On the 2 bolded >

Obviously 3 is not enough, as you say "somewhere between" is the answer, maybe enough for a 22-25 person squad in each age group U12/14/16 of the elite program.

IMO sports all over the world prove that generally you need both, people say guys like Michael Jordan, Lionel Messi are natural talents but when you read stories/get testimony on them form teammates they're also the hardest workers in training.
__________________________________________________________________________
IIRC there are 2-3 kids from our junior club in the Lions academy and from the little I have seen and been told they are your average not too bad not too good player. There is 1 player at the club who is 14 years of age and for me he is a special talent, other more high profile clubs have attempted to recruit him but he is not interested, says he just wants to play with his mates, he is not in the Lions academy, not interested in that either.

The main issue I see is the size of our academy zone (and the Suns). Unlike the NAB League clubs, which the metro ones have small catchment areas, our academy takes in north and south Brisbane, the Sunshine Coast and Harvey Bay, as well as the Darling Downs, Toowoomba and all the way west.

You can’t just have one team in each age group, across such a large area, because the travel requirements on families would be huge just for training.

I don’t know the answers here.

I do agree that it should be an elite academy. Ideally something similar to the European club soccer academies.

But again the size of our recruitment zone prohibits this somewhat. Plus there are only the four northern academies that would make up such a competition.

 

[Dalions]

 

[Required]

The main issue I see is the size of our academy zone (and the Suns). Unlike the NAB League clubs, which the metro ones have small catchment areas, our academy takes in north and south Brisbane, the Sunshine Coast and Harvey Bay, as well as the Darling Downs, Toowoomba and all the way west.

You can’t just have one team in each age group, across such a large area, because the travel requirements on families would be huge just for training.

I don’t know the answers here.

I do agree that it should be an elite academy. Ideally something similar to the European club soccer academies.

But again the size of our recruitment zone prohibits this somewhat. Plus there are only the four northern academies that would make up such a competition.

Here is probably the best place for this.
As i said before. They struggle because Lions employ and staff the academy with people whos biggest professional achievement will be to coach in the Lions academy. They have made it. No ambition to go further.

If they want change, they need to hire a recently retired player with AFL coaching aspirations, who looks at the academy as an opportunity to prove himself in all areas of coaching, and everything that goes with it. Someone desperate for results, and that is measured in draftees, and happy kids satisfied they had the chance to give it their best shot. Someone who has higher aspirations and will use the academy to achieve it. He must also have cart blanch to select his own assistants and staff to the extent an AFL coach would have. He has to own it.

If the northern academies had some restrictions/limit in the draft of Vic, WA, SA, players, im pretty sure one would see big changes at the Lions. Right now, they have no real motivation to make it work. They can get all their talent from down south.

 

[mattsmob]

Has anyone heard anything of McMillian so far this season? Was a bit of talk about him in a couple of the games last season but haven't seen his name anywhere at this stage.

 

[Judge]

Has anyone heard anything of McMillian so far this season? Was a bit of talk about him in a couple of the games last season but haven't seen his name anywhere at this stage.

For whatever reason the Academy doesn't have him in its best 22 for the U19 program, so he's been playing for the Academy's second tier team.

 

[Required]

For whatever reason the Academy doesn't have him in its best 22 for the U19 program, so he's been playing for the Academy's second tier team.

No second tier. Just u17s. Cant change a winning side.
Also, I notice the same nucleus of boys gets picked weekly, regardless of form. Only those on the perifery get changed. One boy started at the back in the 1st game and struggled. Advanced to the wing for the 2nd game and performed poorly. Was promoted to the midfield in the 3rd game and fell apart. Look forward to see him named captain this week.

 

[Morbidly_Obese]

Here is probably the best place for this.
As i said before. They struggle because Lions employ and staff the academy with people whos biggest professional achievement will be to coach in the Lions academy. They have made it. No ambition to go further. If they want change, they need to hire a recently retired player with AFL coaching aspirations, who looks at the academy as an opportunity to prove himself in all areas of coaching, and everything that goes with it. Someone desperate for results, and that is measured in draftees, and happy kids satisfied they had the chance to give it their best shot. Someone who has higher aspirations and will use the academy to achieve it. He must also have cart blanch to select his own assistants and staff to the extent an AFL coach would have. He has to own it.
If the northern academies had some restrictions/limit in the draft of Vic, WA, SA, players, im pretty sure one would see big changes at the Lions. Right now, they have no real motivation to make it work. They can get all their talent from down south.

No offence to the Women's AFL team but I would definitely move Starcevich to the U18s and give him a payrise we need a better class of youngsters to come through the system.

 

[winged1]

The main issue I see is the size of our academy zone (and the Suns). Unlike the NAB League clubs, which the metro ones have small catchment areas, our academy takes in north and south Brisbane, the Sunshine Coast and Harvey Bay, as well as the Darling Downs, Toowoomba and all the way west.

You can’t just have one team in each age group, across such a large area, because the travel requirements on families would be huge just for training.

I don’t know the answers here.

I do agree that it should be an elite academy. Ideally something similar to the European club soccer academies.

But again the size of our recruitment zone prohibits this somewhat. Plus there are only the four northern academies that would make up such a competition.

Yes but the Suns academy takes in nth qld and nt and they seem to be developing a hell of a lot more talent.

Last week Lions level 3 boys and girls and 17 boys all played the Suns. All got soundly thrashed.

At under age state level footy, the gold coast dominate. The question is why.

Is it because Palm Beach Currumbin have a dedicated AFL school of excellence that takes it super seriously. I think it is part of the answer.

When pbc won the qschools cup in most age groups last year, it came out they have been training 3 times a week since January. It was October. They take afl as a subject. The Brisbane afl schools of excellence pay it lip service and at least one has dropped out of the program.

Are the Lions picking the right kids? The kid who dominated at 12 and was huge might struggle at 16.

On the girls side i think Lauren Arnell has done a pretty good job, with the the help of Hendrikson. They are getting girls drafted, having said that we are behind the suns. 16 to 12 in the qld side probably flattered the lions (and they were the 12).

In the boys i think the program has improved, but there arent many genuine prospects in level 3 only Fletcher will go. In level 2 the nth-sth games and subsequent suns games might tell some stories.

One thing i have noticed about the Suns sides is they are significantly taller and generally bigger bodies, they are better marking sides, especially contested marking and seem to have more run.

 

[winged1]

No offence to the Women's AFL team but I would definitely move Starcevich to the U18s and give him a payrise we need a better class of youngsters to come through the system.

Are you talking boys or girls? because Hendrikson has Starcevichs ear, both were at the qld under 18 hit out on the weekend. I think Arnell is doing an ok job. Thats a big step back to go back to the academy.

In the boys, some direction to the kids could be improved. Keeping in mind most academy kids are mids or kpp, so if you have never played eg hbf and you ask what do you want from me, the direction could be better than "play on your man and try to attack"

 

[Required]

*Are the Lions picking the right kids? The kid who dominated at 12 and was huge might struggle at 16.



*In the boys i think the program has improved, but there arent many genuine prospects in level 3 only Fletcher will go. In level 2 the nth-sth games and subsequent suns games might tell some stories.

*Theres no doubt many standouts at u12s usually are early matured boys, who make up most of the rep sides. By 18yo they get sorted as everyone catches up in size. Currently there is a nucleus of the u18s side that have played in every QLD schools side and academy side from u12s till present.

*The QAFL will be the 'proving ground' for these boys.

 

[winged1]

*Theres no doubt many standouts at u12s usually are early matured boys, who make up most of the rep sides. By 18yo they get sorted as everyone catches up in size. Currently there is a nucleus of the u18s side that have played in every QLD schools side and academy side from u12s till present.

*The QAFL will be the 'proving ground' for these boys.

If your 18 and have any aspirations you should be playing snr footy. Not everybody is ready at 17 but they should be getting a taste of snr footy at that age even if ressies. Having said that the higher the level the less thuggish it is.

 

[briztoon]

Yes but the Suns academy takes in nth qld and nt and they seem to be developing a hell of a lot more talent.

Last week Lions level 3 boys and girls and 17 boys all played the Suns. All got soundly thrashed.

At under age state level footy, the gold coast dominate. The question is why.

Is it because Palm Beach Currumbin have a dedicated AFL school of excellence that takes it super seriously. I think it is part of the answer.

When pbc won the qschools cup in most age groups last year, it came out they have been training 3 times a week since January. It was October. They take afl as a subject. The Brisbane afl schools of excellence pay it lip service and at least one has dropped out of the program.

Are the Lions picking the right kids? The kid who dominated at 12 and was huge might struggle at 16.

On the girls side i think Lauren Arnell has done a pretty good job, with the the help of Hendrikson. They are getting girls drafted, having said that we are behind the suns. 16 to 12 in the qld side probably flattered the lions (and they were the 12).

In the boys i think the program has improved, but there arent many genuine prospects in level 3 only Fletcher will go. In level 2 the nth-sth games and subsequent suns games might tell some stories.

One thing i have noticed about the Suns sides is they are significantly taller and generally bigger bodies, they are better marking sides, especially contested marking and seem to have more run.

I’ve had many discussions on the QLD Footy board about our academy.

Most of the members who reply there are directly involved with clubs, either coaches, club presidents or board members, players or parents.

Suffice to say, they almost to a man have a very poor opinion of our academy.

Two of the most often repeated comments are that our academy; has very poor communication with the QAFL clubs, and that some of the best junior kids in Colts aren’t part of our academy.

Further to that, and this is more directed at the club, one the players signed to our VFL squad this year, contacted the club at the beginning of 2021 offering to play for our VFL side last year. Was told we weren’t signing overage/mature age players to our VFL squad last year.

 

[winged1]

I’ve had many discussions on the QLD Footy board about our academy.

Most of the members who reply there are directly involved with clubs, either coaches, club presidents or board members, players or parents.

Suffice to say, they almost to a man have a very poor opinion of our academy.

Two of the most often repeated comments are that our academy; has very poor communication with the QAFL clubs, and that some of the best junior kids in Colts aren’t part of our academy.

Further to that, and this is more directed at the club, one the players signed to our VFL squad this year, contacted the club at the beginning of 2021 offering to play for our VFL side last year. Was told we weren’t signing overage/mature age players to our VFL squad last year.

Proof is in the pudding, the results arent there, not in player dev or players drafted.

Better in the girls, but i think there is more opportunity as the aflw develops.

 

[Required]

I’ve had many discussions on the QLD Footy board about our academy.

Most of the members who reply there are directly involved with clubs, either coaches, club presidents or board members, players or parents.

Suffice to say, they almost to a man have a very poor opinion of our academy.

Two of the most often repeated comments are that our academy; has very poor communication with the QAFL clubs, and that some of the best junior kids in Colts aren’t part of our academy.

The QAFL could hold an annual challenge of a QAFL u18-19s, made up by players selected by their clubs who havent made the final academy squad each year, vs the Lions academy u18-19s.

QAFL and QFA clubs could nominate 1-3 players from their colts they believe should have an opportunity to perform. Consultation between AFLQ and club presidents could see a side chosen to play 1 or 2 pre season games vs the Lions boys?

More boys get an opportunity to impress, clubs get a chance to support their talent, all the players benefit. It could be an annual challenge and may prove a very willing contest.

 

[Morbidly_Obese]

So...are there any academy kids good enough to be drafted this year?

 

[winged1]

So...are there any academy kids good enough to be drafted this year?

Boys or girls? I would think only Fletcher in the boys.