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Academy Watch

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winged1 said:
Are you talking the academy as a whole or specifically boys or girls. The boys program has struggled for a number of years. The girls program is getting players drafted, with 5 or 6 genuine prospects this year. You could mark this down to greater opportunity in the womens game or to fundamental differences in the programs.
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Just the boys essentially, look there is no hidden agenda, I love grassroots football and having gone from Victoria recently and experiencing footy there I’m curious as to the workings here in the academies both Lions and Suns
 
Required said:
How do YOU know who has been injured, in or out of team? This weeks team is the 1st one posted.. and injuries never are. Even Maxwell Smart couldnt work that out..
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I asked around and was told by parents of kids in the side
 
Reef222 said:
Just the boys essentially, look there is no hidden agenda, I love grassroots football and having gone from Victoria recently and experiencing footy there I’m curious as to the workings here in the academies both Lions and Suns
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The question might be what are the suns and especially the swans doing right.
 

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Reef222 said:
Exactly what are they doing that the Lions aren’t
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Most of us (I’m guessing) probably don’t know, because we see very little from the club about the academy.

Those that do know either aren’t on here, or won’t comment.

I actually can’t remember any poster here commenting about any game that wasn’t streamed.

Unlike on the Suns board, where they have a couple of posters who regularly give live updates even about academy practice games they attend, as well as games against their northern clubs and nab league sides.
 
briztoon said:
Most of us (I’m guessing) probably don’t know, because we see very little from the club about the academy.

Those that do know either aren’t on here, or won’t comment.

I actually can’t remember any poster here commenting about any game that wasn’t streamed.

Unlike on the Suns board, where they have a couple of posters who regularly give live updates even about academy practice games they attend, as well as games against their northern clubs and nab league sides.
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I think the tougher question was what are the swans doing that we are not and having no visibility on the swans academy that's impossible to answer. But i have been exposed to a vic academy and the lions are ahead of that. So why no results? I dont know, but it isnt just one factor, its across the board.
 
winged1 said:
I think the tougher question was what are the swans doing that we are not and having no visibility on the swans academy that's impossible to answer. But i have been exposed to a vic academy and the lions are ahead of that. So why no results? I dont know, but it isnt just one factor, its across the board.
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Swans have a sponsor who pours $1m a year in to their academy.
 
winged1 said:
It comes back to the fundamental question of what is the role of the academy?

Is it to give an overall raising of the standard or local footy and an imparting of knowledge that can be taken back to clubs, or is it to prepare kids to get drafted. Or a little column a and a lot of column b.

If the quantitative measure is on kids drafted (i believe academies are remunerated on this metric, could be wrong, but i have been told from other academies this is the case) then it has not been a success. Having said that the last couple of years have been tough, because clubs have defaulted to under 16 form.

Paul Hendrikson and Zane Littlejohn came with very good reputations and in the covid crap fight got put in charge of the academy in 2021. I think these guys do know what they are doing, but may have been starting from a long way back. There have been improvements, but we are still way behind the suns.

So if you are looking to get players drafted, sometimes you are playing them out of position to see how they cope. Sometimes you might be looking at their athletic profile and it might be "nope not going to be a mid at this point". So they are tried elsewhere.

In the girls you have an ex aflw captain and teacher running level 3. Looking at some of the early structures and interchange debacles she is still learning too. But there was a marked and rapid improvement. But limited coaching experience. Henrikson stepped in to help out. I think it is important for the players to look to someone who has achieved at a high playing level. But Grant Birchall is also attached to the academy, so that box is ticked.

Are they choosing the right kids to stay in? Has the concentration in level 3 been too broad? Are they trying to hone in on kids with draftable attributes?

There are some good footy brains in charge and they arent stupid, they know there are issues. Give them some time.

Aflw draft is 1st June lets see how that goes.
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All fair enough.

Just the last part id like to discuss..

The academy SHOULD NOT narrow its focus.

Theres no doubt there are boys that should be in there but arent. But you cant pick them all. I thought the pre season selection process in 2020-21 was a much better model. The more trial games these boys play against good opposition (eachother) the better they will be for the experience, and gives the coaches a good long look at how they perform in real game time, not just on the training paddock.

The 2020-21 model saw the selection of 3 regional teams, Darling Downs/Brisbane south, Brisbane north, and Sunshine coast, playing a mini series to give coaches a better look at them. It gave the coaches a better look at what they had; compared to this year where there were no lead up games to selection. Actually here was one, but the squad had already been cut without boys having a chance to prove themselves. The game even had u17s in it, and a lot of u18s boys missed out as a consequence.

Im sure the boys will tell you they would rather play academy trials footy every Sunday morning in the new year, than get flogged on the training paddock for the same amount of time. 6-8 weeks of games between 3 regions is going to expose the talent for the coaches better than training and no games. I mean, this is their penultimate year. This is what they have worked towards and dreampt of for years.

Let all boys in the program (100 boys?) have a good chance to perform before you cut them. They can at least walk away saying they had the chance to give it their best shot. The way it has been this year, with virtually no chance for some of the boys to play in a trial to make the final squad, is going to generate negative comment/impressions where there really needs to be none. The remedy is simple. Play more interacademy games before cutting the squad.
 

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winged1 said:
Well that's the question isn't it.
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As an example. The suns did their jersey presentation, the entire squad was invited and presented with a jersey, they videod it and posted on yt.. The lions did a presentation to the 1st team chosen, the rest of the squad left out. They took some photos.
 
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Required said:
All fair enough.

Just the last part id like to discuss..

The academy SHOULD NOT narrow its focus.

Theres no doubt there are boys that should be in there but arent. But you cant pick them all. I thought the pre season selection process in 2020-21 was a much better model. The more trial games these boys play against good opposition (eachother) the better they will be for the experience, and gives the coaches a good long look at how they perform in real game time, not just on the training paddock.

The 2020-21 model saw the selection of 3 regional teams, Darling Downs/Brisbane south, Brisbane north, and Sunshine coast, playing a mini series to give coaches a better look at them. It gave the coaches a better look at what they had; compared to this year where there were no lead up games to selection. Actually here was one, but the squad had already been cut without boys having a chance to prove themselves. The game even had u17s in it, and a lot of u18s boys missed out as a consequence.

Im sure the boys will tell you they would rather play academy trials footy every Sunday morning in the new year, than get flogged on the training paddock for the same amount of time. 6-8 weeks of games between 3 regions is going to expose the talent for the coaches better than training and no games. I mean, this is their penultimate year. This is what they have worked towards and dreampt of for years.

Let all boys in the program (100 boys?) have a good chance to perform before you cut them. They can at least walk away saying they had the chance to give it their best shot. The way it has been this year, with virtually no chance for some of the boys to play in a trial to make the final squad, is going to generate negative comment/impressions where there really needs to be none. The remedy is simple. Play more interacademy games before cutting the squad.
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Exactly well said
 
winged1 said:
I think the tougher question was what are the swans doing that we are not and having no visibility on the swans academy that's impossible to answer. But i have been exposed to a vic academy and the lions are ahead of that. So why no results? I dont know, but it isnt just one factor, its across the board.
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I dont know what the swans are doing, but nothing replaces coaches knowing their players as best they can by exposing coaches to the boys actually playing, and by the boys knowing what is expected of them individually. Kids need to play in front of coaches, coaches then to provide feedback to the individual and let them know what they like, dont like, want to see.

Communication. Has been a criticism of the academy for some years but has improved markedly. Academy still needs more of it, more often.
 
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winged1 said:
I think the tougher question was what are the swans doing that we are not and having no visibility on the swans academy that's impossible to answer. But i have been exposed to a vic academy and the lions are ahead of that. So why no results? I dont know, but it isnt just one factor, its across the board.
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The most glaring difference of the Lions and Swans; The swans have a lot more u19s. So do Suns. Suns had 11 in their game vs lions. Lions had 6. I believe Swans and GWS had more than both Suns and Lions.

In recent years Lions players whom have been drafted played academy and were drafted at 19yo. The Lions probably arent that talent rich that they can field so few u19s and expect to compete.
 
Required said:
All fair enough.

Just the last part id like to discuss..

The academy SHOULD NOT narrow its focus.

Theres no doubt there are boys that should be in there but arent. But you cant pick them all. I thought the pre season selection process in 2020-21 was a much better model. The more trial games these boys play against good opposition (eachother) the better they will be for the experience, and gives the coaches a good long look at how they perform in real game time, not just on the training paddock.

The 2020-21 model saw the selection of 3 regional teams, Darling Downs/Brisbane south, Brisbane north, and Sunshine coast, playing a mini series to give coaches a better look at them. It gave the coaches a better look at what they had; compared to this year where there were no lead up games to selection. Actually here was one, but the squad had already been cut without boys having a chance to prove themselves. The game even had u17s in it, and a lot of u18s boys missed out as a consequence.

Im sure the boys will tell you they would rather play academy trials footy every Sunday morning in the new year, than get flogged on the training paddock for the same amount of time. 6-8 weeks of games between 3 regions is going to expose the talent for the coaches better than training and no games. I mean, this is their penultimate year. This is what they have worked towards and dreampt of for years.

Let all boys in the program (100 boys?) have a good chance to perform before you cut them. They can at least walk away saying they had the chance to give it their best shot. The way it has been this year, with virtually no chance for some of the boys to play in a trial to make the final squad, is going to generate negative comment/impressions where there really needs to be none. The remedy is simple. Play more interacademy games before cutting the squad.
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Are you talking level 1 or 3. Level 1 is very broad, but i think by the time they are 17/18 the club should have an idea who has the attributes to go further. Having said that some guys dont grow until they are 18. It's more a black art than science in many ways.
 
Required said:
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The most glaring difference of the Lions and Swans; The swans have a lot more u19s. So do Suns. Suns had 11 in their game vs lions. Lions had 6. I believe Swans and GWS had more than both Suns and Lions.

In recent years Lions players whom have been drafted played academy and were drafted at 19yo. The Lions probably arent that talent rich that they can field so few u19s and expect to compete.
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From memory, Lions have had only one 19 year old drafted since the 2014 draft, Keidean Coleman.

Every other Lions academy kid has been 18 years old when drafted.
 

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Required said:
No mate. Actually forgot it was on thisaro, or i may have looked for a stream. As it was, one has to pay for the stream by the looks of it.

There are links on the western jets FB page. Cant find a free one though.
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It’s free to watch on the NAB League app.
 

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