Review Adrenalin makes you stupid (How to torch your good work)

[parbuster]

This has been driving me mad for the last couple of years, when are we going to learn ?

STOP KICKING LONG HIGH BALLS INTO THE FORWARD LINE

This is 21st century football guys, why do you kill yourselves week after week ?
I want to hear Ratten publicly state that this kick is banned, and won’t be tolerated. It undermines so much of our hard work, kills momentum, and causes frustration.

Last night was the last straw – we must have had 70% of the last Qtr and this was the order of LONG HIGH KICKING
Garlett -> Simspon -> Duigan -> Russell -> Carrazzo -> Thornton ->Warnock -> Scotland -> O’hailpin -> Armfield -> Scotland

That’s 11 forward entries, kicked high to the one team you don’t do that to. Taylor and Scarlett have forged their careers on picking that stuff off.
I understand there are factors: fatigue, large numbers of the opposition inside 50, lack of movement from our forwards, etc, but the best thing that happened to the club this season was recruiting great assistant coaches. We have improved in so many areas with our skill, setup and intensity – we’ve raised the bar. But we have no idea going inside 50.

We have to mix it up. Time to innovate. Understand that if we have the ball, our advantage is the element of surprise, we can be unpredictable, do something unexpected.

Ideas ?

• Understand who the weakest backmen are for the opposition. Instruct our forwards to lead at those players and have the ball kicked above their heads

• Dummy leads. Player with the ball then pulls the kick in the opposite direction to a designated space.

• Kick the ball along the ground (Note Simmo’s (5min to go) and Robo’s (4 min to go) scruffy kicks last night)

I’m not bitching about the loss. The boys were magnificent, and have been all year.
We simply have to understand what doesn’t work, why it doesn’t work, and try and fix it.
I’m sure there was at least 2 more goals out of those 11 inside 50’s last night – let’s get smarter !

 

[Faz 2000]

Werd.

I think having a second viable marking option other than Waite would help that tremendously.

 

[bobsyouruncle]

Werd.

I think having a second viable marking option other than Waite would help that tremendously.

Going to borrow from an excellent post by TG from another thread.

[YOUTUBE]PZe9_LWlOtM[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Faz 2000]

Hear hear. I'll drink to that.

I'll have a a single plum, floating in perfume, served in a man's hat.

 

[Peacock]

There is no point going on about this.

Ratten has had almost four seasons to fix the 'long bomb' and he has either

A) Not addressed it at all

B) Has no idea how to implement a functioning forward line

C) Tried and failed to implement a functioning forward line

This has been going on for years now, not weeks or months, it is not going to change under Ratten.

 

[HBF]

I'm not so sure it's as bad as what it is made out to be. We've effectively had one marking option down there this year in Waite. Once Henderson and Kreuzer come back, I suspect we'll see less and less long bombs into the forward line. I suspect our mids get a little carried away when they see our resting ruckmen down there.

 

[dylan_mike]

One thing i did notice was long kicks to the pockets. When someone was kicking from 55-60 metres out from goal we would kick long to the pocket not 15-20 meters infront of goals.

I thought it was all about kicking to a hot spot that everyone knows about and we all positions ourseleves to that spot.

Howeer it seemed to me that this hot spot was to the pockets. Did any one else notice this?

I noticed this other weeks as well also if we do centre th eball it it is usually too close to the goals .

I wonder if this is an instruction to the players ?

 

[BluesMan]

Absolutely sh*ts me to tears!

 

[parbuster]

Understand also, that it's not about kicking long.

It's about LONG and HIGH.

You kick it high, and you allow the backs to peel off.

Kick the furkin thing long and low and at least you have a chance.
This and some change-up plays would make so much difference

 

[OldBlueFan]

The long high ball into the forward line is a perfectly sound strategy IF:

1. You have forwards who can take a contested mark, or;
2. You kick it into the corridor and have crumbers capable of taking advantage of any spills.

We have 2, we have half of 1 (Waite - who managed an impressive 11 marks last night).

I don't think it's so much of an issue with the guys up the ground, I just think Betts and Jeff aren't positioning themselves well enough to take advantage.

But as I posted in another thread, our forward line managed the highest score this year against the competition's best back line last night, so I think you're being a bit extreme in your criticism.

 

[dylan_mike]

The long high ball into the forward line is a perfectly sound strategy IF:

1. You have forwards who can take a contested mark, or;
2. You kick it into the corridor and have crumbers capable of taking advantage of any spills.

We have 2, we have half of 1 (Waite - who managed an impressive 11 marks last night).

I don't think it's so much of an issue with the guys up the ground, I just think Betts and Jeff aren't positioning themselves well enough to take advantage.

But as I posted in another thread, our forward line managed the highest score this year against the competition's best back line last night, so I think you're being a bit extreme in your criticism.

problem is they are not kicking it into the corridor, they are kicking long to th e pockets. what game did you watch?

 

[40yearBLUE]

Man we have some really ill informed supporters on this board. Every side is kicking long into the forward 50 this year. It is part of a successful formula that high scoring teams adopt against zoning backs or one on one backs. In short it works. We have marking options. Walker, Waite and resting ruck and of course it would help if Hendo found his form and fitness. We also have about the best crumbing forwards going around.

Surely our points for would have been a dead givaway. That and the fact that we are the only team this year that has kicked 100 points against the Cats tells you it worked as recently as last night.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the tactic and I praise Ratts for it. Chipping around works to a degree, but getting it at half back, running to the centre and then kicking it long deep into the forward 50 is the favored tactic of the better sides this year.

Keep up fellas.

 

[Faz 2000]

We have marking options. Walker, Waite and resting ruck and of course it would help if Hendo found his form and fitness.

Thanks for the condescension 40YB, that's great. Let's take a look at some of the stats that may give us some help on this. Up until this round:

Waite averages 8.9 marks per game, and 1.9 of those are contested. Waite is a legitimate target who is working damn hard for us.

Walker averages 3.4 marks per game. He's taken 3 contested grabs for the year. Walker has x-factor, has kicked goals, crumbs well, etc... but he's not much of a marking target. And in fact, it doesn't appear he's doing much on the lead, which is surprising/disappointing because on paper he should be great on the lead. Going for mark of the year 2-3 times a week doesn't make you a great target.

Warnock averages 2.0 marks per game. He's taken 1 (one) contested mark for the year, and that was back on opening night. Warnock is not a target. At least not a vaguely good one.

Hampson averages 2.0 marks per game. He took 7 contested marks in 5 games, and kicked 2 goals. And Hampson was banished to the 2s for being worse than Warnock.

I get that crumbs created by marking contests would account for plenty of scores, but it would also mean we have a ton of rushed kicks that go through for points. It's a seriously difficult way of cobbling together a score.

I DON'T think we have marking options. There's nothing we can magically do about that, until Kreuzer/Henderson are fit and catching them, but to suggest that bombing it high and long to our one, lone, exhausted, well-covered marking target is a great plan is not correct in my view.

 

[OldBlueFan]

problem is they are not kicking it into the corridor, they are kicking long to th e pockets. what game did you watch?

Would you care to point out in my post that I said we actually did that in the game against the cats? I merely pointed out that I think it is a sound strategy.

I have posted on this topic several times previously and every time, I've criticised the team's habit of going to the pockets or the goal square. Both of which (obviously) are positions that make it easy for defenders to kill the contest.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Thanks for the condescension 40YB, that's great. Let's take a look at some of the stats that may give us some help on this. Up until this round:

Waite averages 8.9 marks per game, and 1.9 of those are contested. Waite is a legitimate target who is working damn hard for us.

Walker averages 3.4 marks per game. He's taken 3 contested grabs for the year. Walker has x-factor, has kicked goals, crumbs well, etc... but he's not much of a marking target. And in fact, it doesn't appear he's doing much on the lead, which is surprising/disappointing because on paper he should be great on the lead. Going for mark of the year 2-3 times a week doesn't make you a great target.

Warnock averages 2.0 marks per game. He's taken 1 (one) contested mark for the year, and that was back on opening night. Warnock is not a target. At least not a vaguely good one.

Hampson averages 2.0 marks per game. He took 7 contested marks in 5 games, and kicked 2 goals. And Hampson was banished to the 2s for being worse than Warnock.

I get that crumbs created by marking contests would account for plenty of scores, but it would also mean we have a ton of rushed kicks that go through for points. It's a seriously difficult way of cobbling together a score.

I DON'T think we have marking options. There's nothing we can magically do about that, until Kreuzer/Henderson are fit and catching them, but to suggest that bombing it high and long to our one, lone, exhausted, well-covered marking target is a great plan is not correct in my view.

Then I suggest you watch more footy mate. If there is one defining trend in 2011 it is long kicking into the forward 50.

2 out of 3 AFL coaches are wrong in your opinion then. (probably closer to 4 out of 5 but I am only interested in playing the way the teams doing well are, and you can be sure, no matter what style of play you adopt, if you do well, everyone else will also adopt it.)

By the way statsman, we have one of the highest marks inside 50 so far this year (if not THE highest) of any team. Not going to bother looking it up to prove my point, its fairly obvious if you care to take a look.

 

[thylacine60]

Tell you what I am enjoying, that's the long kickout from a behind, sometimes straight down the middle. It'll be the return of the thumping torp next.

 

[gbatman]

This has been driving me mad for the last couple of years, when are we going to learn ?

STOP KICKING LONG HIGH BALLS INTO THE FORWARD LINE

No, you are wrong. Kicking long to the forward line is the only way to beat the flood and forward press.

If you **** around with the footy at half forward line in an attempt to make it a short kick to a lead then all of a sudden you end up with the whole field inside the forward 50 and there 0 space to score from either marks or crumbs.

You can't **** around with short kicks to work a short pass inside 50 to a lead. Good opposition will deny you space every time. This is a big reason as to why St. Kilda and Nick Riewoldt are failing.

You can't allow the players to move as fast as the play or it clogs things up.

The game has changed to suit the long kick forward to a contest.

It's the long kick to the boundary and the long kick that is too close to the goal face that we need to get rid off a bit. Too many long kicks 10m or closer to goal and they are too easy to defend.

Keep kicking long Blues. Just start kicking more goals than points FFS.

 

[HeziBarecket]

When we have a better structure the long bomb option will work quite well. What bothered me was their inability to create decent scores via set-shots once we had a reasonable lead. Instead the guys do stupid pings at goal that just miss or miss completely. Geelong eased back in to it via set shots, that probably more premiership type experience me thinks...

I admire Garlett's ability to back himself for set shots and would like it if ALL of our forwards attempt set shots instead of ping at goal like rockstars or do fancy cross goal chips and whatnot...and miss!

 

[Sublime]

No, you are wrong. Kicking long to the forward line is the only way to beat the flood and forward press.

If you **** around with the footy at half forward line in an attempt to make it a short kick to a lead then all of a sudden you end up with the whole field inside the forward 50 and there 0 space to score from either marks or crumbs.

You can't **** around with short kicks to work a short pass inside 50 to a lead. Good opposition will deny you space every time. This is a big reason as to why St. Kilda and Nick Riewoldt are failing.

You can't allow the players to move as fast as the play or it clogs things up.

The game has changed to suit the long kick forward to a contest.

It's the long kick to the boundary and the long kick that is too close to the goal face that we need to get rid off a bit. Too many long kicks 10m or closer to goal and they are too easy to defend.

Keep kicking long Blues. Just start kicking more goals than points FFS.

Agree with this. Pumping the ball in long is the way many teams play these days. With so many numbers getting behind the ball, it will look alot worse continually trying to pinpoint targets. Look at what happened in the Essendon match when we try and string many pinpoint passes together, eventually something goes wrong and we are made to look stupid.

Get the ball in long and fast is how to beat teams presses. Sometimes it will work, other times it won't. By the time the other team rebounds out, we should have our press well and truly set up to try cause a turnover and get the ball back into our forward 50. Its not always going to result in PRETTY football and goals, but it can be damn effective against current day tactics.

 

[Blue since 72]

Seems pretty obvious to me we've adopted a pretty Collingwoodesk style of play.

Long kicks out of the backline down the wings to a contest, we move the ball around the wings alot which sends us into the forward pockets alot and we're bombing the ball in long; all of this Collingwood currently do.

Two differences between them and us currently are they have 2 big forwards who can take marks and we're currently one big forward short.

 

[gbatman]

also when you kick long and deep you can defend a turn over easier as you can have and naturally have more numbers behind the ball. Turning the ball over from a short kick the opposition player looks up and sees a paddock of space. Turn it over from a long deep kick and the opposition look up to see a forward press and hardly any space and then the defensive forward pressure and ability to force the opposition wide and turn it over comes into things as well as helping out the defence as it slows the opposition forward movement.

 

[pansies]

Thanks for the condescension 40YB, that's great. Let's take a look at some of the stats that may give us some help on this. Up until this round:

Waite averages 8.9 marks per game, and 1.9 of those are contested. Waite is a legitimate target who is working damn hard for us.

Walker averages 3.4 marks per game. He's taken 3 contested grabs for the year. Walker has x-factor, has kicked goals, crumbs well, etc... but he's not much of a marking target. And in fact, it doesn't appear he's doing much on the lead, which is surprising/disappointing because on paper he should be great on the lead. Going for mark of the year 2-3 times a week doesn't make you a great target.

Warnock averages 2.0 marks per game. He's taken 1 (one) contested mark for the year, and that was back on opening night. Warnock is not a target. At least not a vaguely good one.

Hampson averages 2.0 marks per game. He took 7 contested marks in 5 games, and kicked 2 goals. And Hampson was banished to the 2s for being worse than Warnock.

I get that crumbs created by marking contests would account for plenty of scores, but it would also mean we have a ton of rushed kicks that go through for points. It's a seriously difficult way of cobbling together a score.

I DON'T think we have marking options. There's nothing we can magically do about that, until Kreuzer/Henderson are fit and catching them, but to suggest that bombing it high and long to our one, lone, exhausted, well-covered marking target is a great plan is not correct in my view.

What you're missing from these stats is that it's also about creating a contest. With the quality smalls that we have it is important that we give them an opportunity and the only way is to kick to a contest. Long and high may be difficult for us to mark but it is also difficult for the opposition to mark. We then back our little guys against them any day of the week.

 

[FRUMPY]

long kicks into the fwd 50 is the new trend and has become that way to try and beat the press. you need to either get it in quick before the press or go long and to a contest. carlton are one of the better sides to do this as we then try to bring the ball to ground where players like bets/garlett/walker have great goal sense and roving abilities.

to the person who asked about us kicking long to the pockets against the cats, i also noticed this as well. i think it was an instruction and a good one. we know the likes of scarlett/enright like be 3rd man up. so we kicked it away from the corridoor and the idea was if we cant mark then get the ball out of bounds. we were winning the contested ball and clearances and would have worked on our fwd 50 ball in plays. warnock wins more hitouts. good game plan by ratts.

 

[Dramoth]

Some of the guys are still stuck in the old mode of kick it long into the forward line and aim for Fevola... except that we dont currently have a massive unit of a power forward in the squad to do that with.

We wont have a serious style crash and bash forward until either Hendo learns how to do it, or Mitchell and/or Casboult finish their development and step up to the plate.

 

[Neese]

What is Waite then??