Autopsy AFL 2024 Round 9 - Blues v Demons Thurs May 9th 7:30pm AEST (MCG)

[danster168]

Not HTB.

Barely any contact from the Melbourne defender so I will bring up a similar question. Should just tagging a player be counted as HTB these days? That is almost equivalent to tagging.

he dropped the ball because of the tackle. why else would he drop the ball if he was just tagged. clear dropping the ball. The head of the umpiring department, Stephen McBurney, will be contact by the MFC on Monday for this pathetic interpretation of the rules as well as a written apology regarding the Rooyen howler.

People that say there's a deeper political reason behind the horrendous umpiring against the dees vs Carlton I don't completely agree with but I also don't blame them. We don't have to go far if we remember when Petracca kicked a goal against Carlton from 50m to win the game and they called touched despite it being clearly a goal. So even though the soft call should've been goal the ump went with touched. Just more data added to that theory. Carlton need the umps most times to get across the line.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

I've seen less paid as one but it wasn't a bad call either to let play continue IMO.

In under 10’s maybe ,

there aren’t many marks that would be paid for that afl level, and would be criticised if they were.

 

[YeoShuey]

he dropped the ball because of the tackle. why else would he drop the ball if he was just tagged. clear dropping the ball. The head of the umpiring department, Stephen McBurney, will be contact by the MFC on Monday for this pathetic interpretation of the rules as well as a written apology regarding the Rooyen howler.

People that say there's a deeper political reason behind the horrendous umpiring against the dees vs Carlton I don't completely agree with but I also don't blame them. We don't have to go far if we remember when Petracca kicked a goal against Carlton from 50m to win the game and they called touched despite it being clearly a goal. So even though the soft call should've been goal the ump went with touched. Just more data added to that theory. Carlton need the umps most times to get across the line.

Dropping the ball because of a tackle does not make it HTB. It is actually a tactic that I see Melbourne FC pull a lot when pressure is applied to them to avoid disposal of the ball. Dropping the ball is part of the kicking motion so most times is disguised as that and umpires will usually go nowhere near paying those. Largely besides the point though. The issue with the “tackle” is that it was not a tackle but would have probably been paid if this was touch footy. Seems clear.

In regards to the Petracca non-goal from last year, that was ages back and I don’t really need to comment on that. What I will say is that the umpire was way closer to the action than any of us and could see the play right in front of them. The umpire made a soft call on what they saw (as they should). It got reviewed and it did not get overturned so I don’t think there was anything “clear” about it at all. I’d trust the goal umpires judgement in the scenario that any other observer or player on the ground.

 

[danster168]

Dropping the ball because of a tackle does not make it HTB. It is actually a tactic that I see Melbourne FC pull a lot when pressure is applied to them to avoid disposal of the ball. Dropping the ball is part of the kicking motion so most times is disguised as that and umpires will usually go nowhere near paying those. The issue with the “tackle” is that it was not a tackle. Seems clear.

In regards to the Petracca non-goal from last year, that was ages back and I don’t really need to comment on that. What I will say is that the umpire was way closer to the action than any of us and could see the play right in front of them. The umpire made a soft call on what they saw (as they should). It got reviewed and it did not get overturned so I don’t think there was anything “clear” about it at all. I’d trust the goal umpires judgement in the scenario that any other observer or player on the ground.

the umpire in the Adelaide vs Sydney game also backed his judgment. he thought the ball hit the post despite the replay showing it missed by a foot. Same thing with the umpire. froze in the moment and just called whatever. Same thing happened tonight. Froze on the big stage and he'll be demoted to the VFL for his performance tonight.

 

[YeoShuey]

the umpire in the Adelaide vs Sydney game also backed his judgment. he thought the ball hit the post despite the replay showing it missed by a foot. Same thing with the umpire. froze in the moment and just called whatever. Same thing happened tonight. Froze on the big stage and he'll be demoted to the VFL for his performance tonight.

You are comparing the Adelaide vs Sydney decision (which was not reviewed by the ARC) to a decision that was correctly reviewed by the ARC. If they reviewed the Adelaide vs Sydney decision, they would have come to the correct decision and that was the main issue with that game. Just like they did with the Petracca non-goal last year.

 

[danster168]

You are comparing the Adelaide vs Sydney decision (which was not reviewed by the ARC) to a decision that was correctly reviewed by the ARC. If they reviewed the Adelaide vs Sydney decision, they would have come to the correct decision and that was the main issue with that game. Just like they did with the Petracca non-goal last year.

nah because the soft call in the Petracca decision was touched. The replay showed that it wasn't touched so basically the umpire believed it was touched based of a fallacy. The call should've been 'I believe it was a goal, can you see if it was touched'. not the other way around. So it would've been a goal. Melbourne continually ripped off by pathetic umpiring.

 

[YeoShuey]

nah because the soft call in the Petracca decision was touched. The replay showed that it wasn't touched so basically the umpire believed it was touched based of a fallacy. The call should've been 'I believe it was a goal, can you see if it was touched'. not the other way around. So it would've been a goal. Melbourne continually ripped off by pathetic umpiring.

The soft call on the Petracca decision was that the ball was touched which was the right call as it what the umpire observed. It was then reviewed. The replay did NOT show that it wasn’t touched as they would have overturned the decision if that were the case. I stand by the umpires decision there as it was the right call.

 

[CaptainHowdy87]

The best part of tonight has to be danster168 insisting Petracca is a dreadful wet game player throughout the match, while he goes on to:

-Kick 5 goals
-Create 2 goal assists
-Have a game high 10 score involvements (next best was 7)
-21 disposals and 4 clearances (so still plenty of good midfield work too)

In a wet slog where goals were precious. Almost singlehandedly getting his side over the line in a miraculous comeback.

All the while...praising Oliver.

I'm starting to understand why he was banished from the Melbourne BigFooty board.

He is the nuffiest of nuffies.

 

[danster168]

Yet another corrupt blatant miss by those inept umpires.

 

[BlueJet]

In under 10’s maybe ,

there aren’t many marks that would be paid for that afl level, and would be criticised if they were.

No, in instances where the player appears to gain control the ball on the second or third grab & has someone punch it out of their hands..
There are questionable marks paid free from criticism quite regularly.

 

[JTRx]

So which of you charming Carlton folk were booing, spitting and hurling abuse at the umpires as they walked off?

Anyone would have thought you lost the game off the back of some dubious decisions

 

[BlueJet]

Given his carry-on, it was probably Danster..

 

[danster168]

Given his carry-on, it was probably Danster..

The video evidence speaks for itself. They don't deserve abuse. But they deserve instant sacking. Care to comment on the Neal-Bullen tackle and tell me the umpires aren't inept. Those wrong calls adds up over a game u know.

 

[Thrawn]

It's 3am and danster is still complaining and conjuring conspiracy theories. Hilarious.

 

[Thrawn]

Yet another corrupt blatant miss by those inept umpires.

Did you see the Carlton vs Geelong game? It was full of these decisions. On both sides. Get over it.

 

[Mr Meow]

Good research. Oliver has been a jet from day one. He won our BnF in his 2nd season when Petracca was barely firing a shot.
Before tonight people were talking about how poor Petracca has been the last few weeks. For me, for Petracca to overtake Oliver, he needs to win at least 1 coaches votes award and equal Oliver in Bnf's. Oliver has 4 bnf's. That's 4 elite seasons. That's with Max Gawn and Petracca. Petracca has won 2.

You say Oliver was great in 2021 and 2022. And since then he has X amount of coaches votes etc. You know Oliver has basically been injured since 2022. He missed like 11 games last year. Did you forget that? It's a bit hard to vote when you're out. And this season, I think it's pretty amazing that he's even playing with having no pre-season, being overweight and then breaking his hand. we need to factor all that in too.

I'm well aware of Oliver's excuses (happens to a lot of players...look at Ablett's brilliant 8 year run being cut short by his shoulder injury and subsequent family issues....Martin too after 2020) but they don't suddenly mean he has been elite since the conclusion of the 2022 season. You aren't automatically elite from having B&Fs. His AA seasons were elite: there are 3. I'm happy enough to give him a 4th for his other strong coaches votes season. Petracca has hit that mark and is still on track for his 5th elite season.

Binary "did he win coaches award" or not is silly as a way to measure them. How strong his team mates (vote stealers) were, and how strong the other top 10/20 players in the league can easily push the exact same season from 1st to 8th. But I think it's fair to say 70+ coaches votes seasons for midfielders are elite. In the modern game where we've seen vote inflation, maybe 80/90+ votes is the new mark. As eras shift so do the standard benchmarks for these things.

Basically, my original point stands. Oliver was a good player from day one, had two very good seasons and later two at the upper end of elite. Then he's reverted to decent enough, nothing special. That is not an all time career. He would need to revert to 2021 Oliver for another 4 years with a bunch of fantastic finals along the way before you could even consider him one of the greats.

 

[Mr Meow]

Well it was the most one sided umpiring I've experienced since a dogs game in 2021 when Weightman flopped for about 5 goals. A very frustrating night of 1 sided inept, bs umpiring.

What is staying up and drinking till 4am ranting on here going to change about a game that Melbourne deservedly lost, though?

Honestly, therapy to help you deal with perfectly okay situations would be of a benefit. It actually feels good to acknowledge that the random team you support was bested because the opposition played better, sometimes. Trust me.

 

[danster168]

I'm well aware of Oliver's excuses (happens to a lot of players...look at Ablett's brilliant 8 year run being cut short by his shoulder injury and subsequent family issues....Martin too after 2020) but they don't suddenly mean he has been elite since the conclusion of the 2022 season. You aren't automatically elite from having B&Fs. His AA seasons were elite: there are 3. I'm happy enough to give him a 4th for his other strong coaches votes season. Petracca has hit that mark and is still on track for his 5th elite season.

Binary "did he win coaches award" or not is silly as a way to measure them. How strong his team mates (vote stealers) were, and how strong the other top 10/20 players in the league can easily push the exact same season from 1st to 8th. But I think it's fair to say 70+ coaches votes seasons for midfielders are elite. In the modern game where we've seen vote inflation, maybe 80/90+ votes is the new mark. As eras shift so do the standard benchmarks for these things.

Basically, my original point stands. Oliver was a good player from day one, had two very good seasons and later two at the upper end of elite. Then he's reverted to decent enough, nothing special. That is not an all time career. He would need to revert to 2021 Oliver for another 4 years with a bunch of fantastic finals along the way before you could even consider him one of the greats.

what's your justification for minimising the most credible award in footy? Oliver has won it twice. If Petracca is good enough he will need to also win it at least once.

Oliver has had more brownlow votes if you value that award.

How do you justify the Melbourne coaches giving Oliver 4 bnf's versus Petraccs only 2?
The coaches are telling you directly they have rated Oliver higher.

Oliver is 1.5 years younger too by the way! 9 seasons, and hes been elite for 7 of them.

2018- 3rd in league in disposals and clearances. 2nd in the league in tackles.

2019- 9th in disposals,5th in clearances, 7th in tackles

2020- 9th in dispoaals, 1st in clearances, 9th in tackles.

These are all elite seasons.

Injuries isnt an excuse. Its legit. He missed 11 weeks with a hamstring. Its a factor.

You're not crediting Oliver enough. He will go down with the disposals all time record, clearances all time record and contested possession all time record. barring injury. I'm not judging Oliver based off an injury riddled 12 months. He's more than proven himself and his accolades speak for themselves.

Petracca can't match Oliver's consistency and that's why Oliver usually wins the BnF's.

Petracca had a career year in 2021, winning the norm etc. but Oliver still wins the BnF.

And if you're going to judge their careers as a whole then you've got to judge Petraccas first 4 years where he was just a so-so player averaging about 18 possessions a game and then he broke out in his 5th year to get 23.5 touches a game. He truly broke out in his 6th year. By that time Oliver had already put together several elite seasons.

 

[danster168]

What is staying up and drinking till 4am ranting on here going to change about a game that Melbourne deservedly lost, though?

Honestly, therapy to help you deal with perfectly okay situations would be of a benefit. It actually feels good to acknowledge that the random team you support was bested because the opposition played better, sometimes. Trust me.

Umm what? Being annoyed at the umpires is justified. And I've proven that with all of the video evidence. I don't think Melbourne played well. And I don't think Carlton showed me anything that would phase me in finals. The umpires were extremely impactful tonight. I would give credit when it's due such as when Brisbane beat us a few weeks ago. Tonight belonged to the umps. Maybe instead of hating on Melbourne you can be impartial and judge the umpiring decisions for what they were. You chose not to provide video evidence so that speaks for itself.

I have every right to slag off the umpires. they decided the game. If you disagree, that's fine. This is my opinion. If you believe the umpiring was fair and even, that's fine, we can agree to disagree. They were a 4-6 goal factor to Carlton tonight. The Hollands chase unrewarded chase down gave you an insight into the minds of the umpires.

 

[.Shotties.]

Thoughts on this mark NOT PAID to McGovern.

Even in .75 speed he didn't control it before the first came through for the spoil.

 

[PizzaPie]

Yet another corrupt blatant miss by those inept umpires.

I can't say too much but FYI you're pretty close to the money with your theories. No one would believe me if I elaborated anyways, but I can't risk it all the same. The picture becomes very clear if you play around with match result data from the last ten seasons, including free kick counts, match day umpires, ladder positions at the time, and average crowd attendances YoY. It's all in there if you're not afraid to lock yourself in a room with an 8 ball and an Excel workbook and put in a solid 72 hour day of number crunching.

 

[Chronz]

Danster just kept at it all night I see.

 

[Mr Meow]

what's your justification for minimising the most credible award in footy? Oliver has won it twice. If Petracca is good enough he will need to also win it at least once.

Oliver has had more brownlow votes if you value that award.

How do you justify the Melbourne coaches giving Oliver 4 bnf's versus Petraccs only 2?
The coaches are telling you directly they have rated Oliver higher.

Oliver is 1.5 years younger too by the way! 9 seasons, and hes been elite for 7 of them.

2018- 3rd in league in disposals and clearances. 2nd in the league in tackles.

2019- 9th in disposals,5th in clearances, 7th in tackles

2020- 9th in dispoaals, 1st in clearances, 9th in tackles.

These are all elite seasons.

Injuries isnt an excuse. Its legit. He missed 11 weeks with a hamstring. Its a factor.

You're not crediting Oliver enough. He will go down with the disposals all time record, clearances all time record and contested possession all time record. barring injury. I'm not judging Oliver based off an injury riddled 12 months. He's more than proven himself and his accolades speak for themselves.

Petracca can't match Oliver's consistency and that's why Oliver usually wins the BnF's.

Petracca had a career year in 2021, winning the norm etc. but Oliver still wins the BnF.

And if you're going to judge their careers as a whole then you've got to judge Petraccas first 4 years where he was just a so-so player averaging about 18 possessions a game and then he broke out in his 5th year to get 23.5 touches a game. He truly broke out in his 6th year. By that time Oliver had already put together several elite seasons.

Who else agrees with you that Oiver is tracking to be one of the great midfielders of all time compared to Petracca? He'd need to bounce back to career best form and quickly. There's not a huge amount in it currently outside of Petracca pulling in a bunch of elite consecutive seasons and counting, whereas Oliver has absolutely stalled. Oliver right now is still tracking behind Martin and Pendlebury. Maybe Selwood without any leadership.

Your arguments amount to mere tallying of BnF victories. Petracca is keeping Melbourne a premiership contender along with a few others. Oliver is just a mid ranger in that group now and has been since late 2022.

 

[Mr Meow]

Umm what? Being annoyed at the umpires is justified. And I've proven that with all of the video evidence. I don't think Melbourne played well. And I don't think Carlton showed me anything that would phase me in finals. The umpires were extremely impactful tonight. I would give credit when it's due such as when Brisbane beat us a few weeks ago. Tonight belonged to the umps. Maybe instead of hating on Melbourne you can be impartial and judge the umpiring decisions for what they were. You chose not to provide video evidence so that speaks for itself.

I have every right to slag off the umpires. they decided the game. If you disagree, that's fine. This is my opinion. If you believe the umpiring was fair and even, that's fine, we can agree to disagree. They were a 4-6 goal factor to Carlton tonight. The Hollands chase unrewarded chase down gave you an insight into the minds of the umpires.

Carlton boys, time to universally declare this for what it is.

Arr0w come on I know you enjoy calling out a pathetic whinge.

 

[Kernafides]

The better team on the night won. People are only squabbling about certain free kicks because of the margin. Time should be invested in why your team failed to score in the first quarter which always has you behind the 8 ball