AFL Live 2003: Brainstorming

[RussianDevil]

OK let's start off with a concept of 'leading'... in a game of AFL, who should be leading, when should they be leading, for how long and in what direction? Just throw some of your thoughts at me so we can get the best possible description possible.

 

[ozzult]

The three full forward line players should lead, and depending on tactics, one or all three could be leading.

They need to lead into space, and once that space is obliterated they stop leading, and run back to their starting position and lead again until the ball is kicked.

Half back flankers also need to lead to space in kick ins.

Half forwards should be also leading when the ball is in the defensive 50 and around the half back line.

 

[RussianDevil]

"They need to lead into space" -> should they be leading if they're behind the ball player? if ball player is 60 m directly in front, should they be leading to the wings or near center? Guess what I'm asking is what is a definition of a 'good space to lead to'

"Half back flankers also need to lead to space in kick ins" -> same should apply if the ball is marked near own defensive goals?

 

[Mr Eagle]

Originally posted by RussianDevil
"They need to lead into space" -> should they be leading if they're behind the ball player? if ball player is 60 m directly in front, should they be leading to the wings or near center? Guess what I'm asking is what is a definition of a 'good space to lead to'

I think the FF should concentrate on running straight out, maybe on no more than a 45 degree angle across the line to goal of the ball player. Pockets are more inclined to zigzag wherever, but should be able to leave the "best space" for the full forward. If the players are behind the ball then its leading wide to the pockets or nothing, for my money.

This also leads to another issue - should key forwards lead at all? Some are simply better suited to body-on-body marking contests.

 

[Mattster]

i'm not sure whether anyone played some dodgy nba game from 95, but they had this option so you press spacebar + a + pass button. and that would pass to the center. with other letters corresponding to other positions.

Perhaps when the camera is behind the player, you could press L1 + kick to kick to the player with L1 above them.

as for leading during general gameplay...i don't really care as long as you have some way of knowing. Quite simply i am kicking in hoping that it'll reach someone on the lead. Most often it is based on luck

 

[RussianDevil]

Mattster, I didn't really start a thread to ask about what people thought about leading behaviour in the game at the moment, whether they liked it or not, etc. Just want to learn more about football in general so that the game can be more realistic.

 

[ozzult]

Originally posted by RussianDevil
"They need to lead into space" -> should they be leading if they're behind the ball player? if ball player is 60 m directly in front, should they be leading to the wings or near center? Guess what I'm asking is what is a definition of a 'good space to lead to'

"Half back flankers also need to lead to space in kick ins" -> same should apply if the ball is marked near own defensive goals?

I wouldn't have players behind the ball leading, unless they are very close to the mark when they begin.

Full forwards will usually lead directly in front or slightly to the angles up to about 50m out from goal.

And yeah the same rule should apply if the ball is marked near own defensive goals.

I just had an idea.

When a player goes on a lead, how about like a green (or brightly coloured) streak or trail that is left behind him, so you can see who is leading fast?

 

[Malibu#27]

All players on the ground lead in general play if the ball is moving down field towards them or down the other side of the field and there is a "switch" play on the cards.

However, structured leading patterns are generally only used by forwrds (particularly key forwards), with the classic 2 pronged attack on the full forward line being an example of the first target leading up the ground towards the ball while the "2nd" option cuts across the back to the space that has just been vacant.

Of course if the team placings are altered and you end up with a "small" forward line this tactic may be modified.

The point I'm trying to make (badly mind you) is that depending on the game pattern adopted by teams, the players that lead and the behaviour of players "out of the current contest" will change.

As another example, when teams flood, pushing everyone back, if they turn the ball over and gain possession, the movement of the ball forward will be completely different to a side with a 7 foot giant sitting at centre half forward that can mark everything.


Hence my question:

Is it possible to structure the game to contain "play books" (to use an Americanism, so that the player can effectively coach their side into the style of play he wants them to play - based on this style, players would behave differently. It would mean the game would become not just a kick to the next free player type of game, but also allow some strategic planning of team structure.

Off the top of my head here are some "styles" used in recent years:


The flood - forwards all push back into defence when opposition has ball and then run forward in numbers.

Straight Down The Guts - with a dominat CHF the side will bring the ball out of defence and continually drop it on the CHF's head with crumbers coming in to take any ball hitting the ground.

Playing Wide - play is constantly brought down the wings.

Switching - Players on the "opposite" side of the ground continually surge forward when in posession and balls are kicked "across the ground" to use these playersd and the free space that is generated with opposition moving across to cover the original ball carrier.


Then there are numerous forward setups, with any combination of talls and smalls, and designated areas they are assigned to lead (depending on where the ball is approaching from).


In additon, there are numerous methods for trying to prevent an opposition side from clearing a ball from a point kicking with alll sorts of zones, half zones, man on mans etc.

 

[james4954]

I reckon the leading issue is not as important as being able to kick to a leading player - right now there are players leading in the game but it is very hard to kick the ball the correct distance to them.

One thing I love about the game is how teams (human or AI) seem to be able to get a run on and can be very hard to beat after that point. Seems if you can get a good start you are half way home.

 

[RussianDevil]

Well, not being able to kick to a leading player is not something you fellow AFL fans can do much about but there are problems with code related to leading which is why I started this thread. Once there is a greater variety in the kick types (different heights of trajectory), and if camera angle is adjusted a bit, kicking to a leading player shouldn't be too much of an issue.

 

[Mr Eagle]

Originally posted by RussianDevil
Once there is a greater variety in the kick types (different heights of trajectory), and if camera angle is adjusted a bit, kicking to a leading player shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Cool.

RD, has anyone mentioned here how nice it is to be able to whine and gripe at someone who actually cares what we think? I must admit it is a lovely change

 

[RussianDevil]

No, you are the first one to mention it but I can imagine Don't get too used to it though!!!

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by RussianDevil
No, you are the first one to mention it but I can imagine Don't get too used to it though!!!

Well it is nice to actually see someone here who is/was involved in the game and willing to listen to some of its faults or any minor problems!

 

[RussianDevil]

well first of all, I am just as willing to listen to MAJOR problems as minor (probably even more so!) and secondly, I want the game to be as enjoyable as possible, and many heads are much better than one when it comes down to analysing, criticising and brainstorming ideas.

 

[james4954]

some more random ideas . . .

it occurred to me that it would be cool if the AI made positional moves within a game. maybe if a player is getting soundly beaten the AI could make a change, or the computer is say more than 5 goals down it could make comprehensive positional changes Sheedy-style.

i was around 5 goals down early in a match, made some strategy changes and positional changes that worked a treat but somehow it didn't seem fair that the AI couldn't respond. Would also be cool to be able to have individual players play different tactically, ie have players play man on man (tagging), running off etc etc. I realise that is loosely in the game now but it would be very cool to be able to tag a specific player without playing negatively as a team. also would be nice for defenders to be able to double team key forwards.

also, some more realistic injuries - players do a hammy or a knee and are back in the team next week. i think it would be cool to have long term injuries as well, like season ending ones.

been playing 3 weeks now and enjoying it more each time. a great first up effort, can't wait for the next version.

i know its been mentioned but career mode (with trades and drafts) is top of my wish list. just wanted to keep that one in the mix

 

[GOALden Hawk]

I know there is another thread with ideas and stuff, but I thought I would throw mine in this one, because I got to play it for the first time last week.

Firstly, I think the game is pretty good, much better than any other Aussie Rules game I've played.

Anyway, some random thoughts:

- Centre clearances far too easy. Only real fault I could find. Was almost impossible to stop a team getting a run on.

- Not enough pack marking or leading, it's more just one-on-one in the forward line.

- Injuries should be more serious.

- No automatic shot button, so you can do a snap from the pocket. It's a bit annoying how you have to face the goals. Maybe change the square button to automatic shot and have L1 as evade instead??

- Ability to do a torpedo or banana kick from a set shot, perhaps by holding down R1 and kicking. However, these should have a low probability of working.

- A rough tackle button like in FIFA, so players can be dropped behind play. These can then be reported.

- Press select to change strategy straight away.

- Have set plays for kick outs, both attack and defence. Ie one button does a huddle, one goes short etc.

- Brownlow votes.

PS. Thanks RussianDevil for actually taking things on board, greatly appreciated!