Aggressive Trading

[Old Spice]

I agree that to a degree it's circumstantial. If you feel you have the balance right in terms of competition for a certain spot, along with the right blend of youth and experience in that position, trading someone out to fill a need in another area is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Where you have hot competition for a spot you can make that exchange I think where the new incumbents are just as capable. It's about timing, where a player still holds strong trade currency but the club is confident their skill-set can be filled. The chances are that the predominant player might get shaded soon so rather than allow them to waste away, you give them an opportunity to start at another club and climb the draft ladder.

Obviously you don't trade All Australian quality players like Pendlebury, Cloke or Reid as you're taking a massive gamble, indeed a stupid one, if you think you can get better.

But for players in that 15+ best range, you might be able to make pick swaps for an upgrade in position or straight swaps for good position.

Having a flexible list where players can play two positions gives them greater trade value but can also allows the club to trial other players there. So in the example of Seedsman and Oxley we have two young players who may prove in 2014 able to play wing back flank (and also a cheapish, mature ager like Young) and Harry. I don't really like naming players but I'm trying to make the scenario concrete. A similar scenario might be imagined with small forward/mids.

It's not risk free because you are looking to trade someone who is an established quantity. But where it allows you to trade up you have to consider it depending on what's available.

The idea is to continually press up higher into the draft in the hope that we can have a list predominantly fielded by players in the top 30 range. If we land a star with a late pick like with Swan, clearly you hold them. You also continue to take late diamonds we rate that we think we can bring up to speed - either to hold or to trade.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

This is a favourite thread of mine.

FA will remove another layer of player/club loyalty. Buy Low sell high, it doesn't get any simpler.

 

[Old Spice]

This is a favourite thread of mine.

FA will remove another layer of player/club loyalty. Buy Low sell high, it doesn't get any simpler.

I am certain post Free Agency that clubs will money-ball on positional depth with mature agers and look to upgrade their National Draft picks with trading.

We are well positioned to do so a/. because we are a stable club at Committee and supporter level which allows you to take risks and take the membership with you, and b/. because our recruiting and development staff are better placed to increase player value.

We have a coach I think that is more inclined to give a free reign to the capacities of such a system and to take risks.

 

[jathanas]

This is a favourite thread of mine.

FA will remove another layer of player/club loyalty. Buy Low sell high, it doesn't get any simpler.

We fans of the AFL have not been exposed to the commercial realities of the EPL or the NFL. The FA is a step in that direction, and we will just have to adjust. Clubs are profit seeking entities and players are their most valuable "commodities". What we term "aggressive" trading, a club might describe as "active"... It might be buy low-sell high, or quite simply as OS stated trading surplus stock due to the need to fill a specific gap.

It might be that by 2020 any player with a 10 year career at 1 club will be the exception, not the norm...

 

[Old Spice]

We fans of the AFL have not been exposed to the commercial realities of the EPL or the NFL. The FA is a step in that direction, and we will just have to adjust. Clubs are profit seeking entities and players are their most valuable "commodities". What we term "aggressive" trading, a club might describe as "active"... It might be buy low-sell high, or quite simply as OS stated trading surplus stock due to the need to fill a specific gap.

It might be that by 2020 any player with a 10 year career at 1 club will be the exception, not the norm...

It requires a culture shift, and this is the thing, not being mercenary but honest in conversations with players and seeking opportunities for players who would otherwise be phased out anyway. Partly it's judgment and timing.

What we bank on is our superior recruitment and development system. That implies risk, but one you mitigate significantly by having broad coverage in younger players and mature agers who can fill the role of the outgoing player.

The big risk is culture and some clubs won't be able to go with us there where the membership is more fragile.

Big clubs will start to do it sooner or later, so better to be an early adopter than be outdrawn.

 

[noideaatall]

Great OP & thread. It is serendipitous, many different forces pushing us in the direction we have taken.

What if we have not chosen to trade aggressively? Daisy, Wellingham, Shaw, Dawes, Dids and Jolly still on the 2014 list. I don't think we have taken huge risks by choosing to trade aggressively, I don't we had that much choice.

 

[sd26]

We fans of the AFL have not been exposed to the commercial realities of the EPL or the NFL. The FA is a step in that direction, and we will just have to adjust. Clubs are profit seeking entities and players are their most valuable "commodities". What we term "aggressive" trading, a club might describe as "active"... It might be buy low-sell high, or quite simply as OS stated trading surplus stock due to the need to fill a specific gap.

It might be that by 2020 any player with a 10 year career at 1 club will be the exception, not the norm...

Collingwood Football club is a not-for-profit entity. Free agency is all about the players and restraint of trade and nothing to do with commercial realities of the AFL.

 

[jonbe54]

Collingwood Football club is a not-for-profit entity. Free agency is all about the players and restraint of trade and nothing to do with commercial realities of the AFL.

Simple? Or simplistic? Time will tell.

 

[sd26]

Simple? Or simplistic? Time will tell.

No, the only thing simplistic is your reply. Check the annual report if you're interested.

 

[jonbe54]

No, the only thing simplistic is your reply. Check the annual report if you're interested.

Hmmm you are a nasty type aren't you? Couldn't be bothered arguing with your type, ignored.

 

[jathanas]

Collingwood Football club is a not-for-profit entity. Free agency is all about the players and restraint of trade and nothing to do with commercial realities of the AFL.

Technically your assertion true, so thanks for correcting me. The private school I send my kids to is also a not-for-profit entity (just like the CFC). That does not imply that they don't seek profits, it just means that profits are "reinvested". It's naive to think otherwise.

FA is all about the commercial realities of the AFL, and that is why the players association fought for it. It is the commodities (players) seeking more avenues to trade. That has already massively changed the landscape in terms of commercial realities of AFL.

 

[jathanas]

No, the only thing simplistic is your reply. Check the annual report if you're interested.

Who pissed in your kornflakes buddy? We tend to enjoy exchanging thoughts here, which is made all the better when people are friendly, polite, and well considered.

 

[sd26]

Who pissed in your kornflakes buddy? We tend to enjoy exchanging thoughts here, which is made all the better when people are friendly, polite, and well considered.

You made a number of factual errors which I corrected. You still don't get what free agency is about (restraint of trade). I think you have no clue what you're talking about and you are embarrassing yourself with jargon in an attempt to boost an incorrect assertion. I really enjoyed responding to you.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I tend to agree FA was introduced to avert any challenges to RoT

 

[jathanas]

You made a number of factual errors which I corrected. You still don't get what free agency is about (restraint of trade). I think you have no clue what you're talking about and you are embarrassing yourself with jargon in an attempt to boost an incorrect assertion. I really enjoyed responding to you.

How to win friends and influence people.

It might be true that I have no clue, I am also unaware if my statements are causing embarrassment to myself or anyone else for that matter.

How do think your statements are perceived? Please don't post claiming you don't care, because that is the ultimate sign that you do.

I believe you dismiss my comments as jargon because you either don't agree or don't understand them. Either way, welcome to my ignore list. Have a happy day!

 

[jackcass]

Agreed, Shaw after the betting incident worked his ass off and was a prime physical specimen come 2011 finals, come 2013 he was dropped for high skin folds, WTF happened? Complacency is what happened, Shaw only got the very best out of himself when he had a point to prove, same goes for Didak-Daisy.

compare that to Pendles hitting the Gym 3 weeks early this year! Pendles wants to get better by nature, chalk and cheese.

Much to do with an ongoing back injury which impacted his training capacity. This of course only strengthens the case to trade him while he has currency.

 

[jackcass]

Very happy with the recruiting over the last couple of years. Yes, we've turned over a few players who have been fan favorites, but we've added some kids with very bright futures.

Not a huge fan of recruiting via FA. Only ever going to be a few players available who will actually enhance our team and they'll come at such a high cost in terms of salary cap. The benefit of Young & Russell (yes I know we traded for him but we could have taken him FA) to our list is still to be evidenced.

Personally think that while compo picks are on offer, trading out FA players is more beneficial to us. That'll change when clubs lose access to FA compo pics.

That said, think the club still needs to do more with Category B rookies. We're allowed 3 per year and I think we should be carrying the maximum every year. Only need to unearth a "Hanley" or a "Stynes" occasionally and you're definitely on a winner. Should also look at highly considered draft choices who opt into another sporting code (ie: Keath) and keep a very close eye on them. Only have to be out of the footy system for 3 years and they can be grabbed as freeby Cat B rookies.

 

[Cotcho]

Hey guys, sorry to intrude.

But could you possibly trade us Pendles? Seriously love the guy, my favourite player in the AFL.

Carry on.

 

[RuFiO]

Hey guys, sorry to intrude.

But could you possibly trade us Pendles? Seriously love the guy, my favourite player in the AFL.

Carry on.

What's so good about him?
He's only the second best midfielder.

 

[September Action]

Haven't read entire thread - has anyone come up with the usual drivel: "how about we let go Blair and Goldsack for pick 1?" Etc.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Haven't read entire thread - has anyone come up with the usual drivel: "how about we let go Blair and Goldsack for pick 1?" Etc.

Draft time was so last week. We have approximately 48 weeks till drivel like that comes up again.

 

[Robroy22]

Draft time was so last week. We have approximately 48 weeks till drivel like that comes up again.

Really? God I hope so!
Would love to just chat about the positives of being a Pies supporter for a change

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Really? God I hope so!
Would love to just chat about the positives of being a Pies supporter for a change

We can't to that yet, we haven't even decided who our designated whipping boy is.

 

[Robroy22]

We can't to that yet, we haven't even decided who our designated whipping boy is.

Couldn't we just pick on Davey Warner and leave the Pies boys out of it?

 

[Cotcho]

What's so good about him?
He's only the second best midfielder.

Just love the way he plays. There's something almost a bit martial art the way he goes about things in that he is moving in such a way that each thing he does is the minimum movement required. Hence it looks as if he has more time and is quicker than everyone else just gliding through without wasting energy. Efficiency of movement I'm going to call it! You may be right about Swanny > Pendles....Maybe....I'd disagree but Swanny is a beast, Pendles is art!