Ahmed Saad suspended for 18 months (ASADA appealing)

[coryne]

posted elsewhere, but relevant here:

The pertinent point, is the way the WADA code is set out primarily to deal with athletes competing in athletics, not team-based, seasonal sports.

For an Olympics focused athlete, 6 months is merely one eighth of the period between "seasons", if you like. They may miss a single meet as a result. For an AFL player, that 6 months is the entire season.

It's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. It's a disgrace, frankly.

So Athletes do not compete in national meets, international meets, world championships, commonwealth games etc ???

 

[ManWithNoName]

 

[bomberjez]

Positive tests? Where? I've never seen a confirmed positive test from Armstrong. That was always his defence.
Testimony? Yes lots and that was his undoing in the end

Failed a test back in 99' and the Cycling boss helped cover it up.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2005-08-24-armstrong-samples-details_x.htm

http://www.scmp.com/sport/other-spo...ed-me-cover-dope-test-failure-lance-armstrong

THIS is doping. This makes me sick.

 

[the_interloper]

Ok, let's make this simple: Are you aware that an athlete can be suspended for drug cheating without ever testing positive in a drug test?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

So Athletes do not compete in national meets, international meets, world championships, commonwealth games etc ???

how many of these occur in any given 6 months?

 

[ManWithNoName]

Ok, let's make this simple: Are you aware that an athlete can be suspended for drug cheating without ever testing positive in a drug test?

Yes.

Are you aware of the degree of evidence it took to bring down Armstrong? Compared to what they seemingly have on Essendon?

 

[coryne]

how many of these occur in any given 6 months?

How many bans are successfully downgraded to 6 months ???

 

[Lance Uppercut]

How many bans are successfully downgraded to 6 months ???

we're not talking about that. We're talking about the difference between 18 months and 24 months....

 

[jenny61_99]

posted elsewhere, but relevant here:

The pertinent point, is the way the WADA code is set out primarily to deal with athletes competing in athletics, not team-based, seasonal sports.

For an Olympics focused athlete, 6 months is merely one eighth of the period between "seasons", if you like. They may miss a single meet as a result. For an AFL player, that 6 months is the entire season.

It's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. It's a disgrace, frankly.

Yes, I dont disagree with you. But the penalty is NEVER 6 months. 2 year minimum is the general sanction and only if you've substantially assisted during the investigation will you get a lesser penalty. So 2 years is 48 matches. How long would it take a runner to serve a 48 race penalty? And lets not forget the whole idea of the penalty is to try and deter people from DOPING in sport!

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Yes, I dont disagree with you. But the penalty is NEVER 6 months. 2 year minimum is the general sanction and only if you've substantially assisted during the investigation will you get a lesser penalty. So 2 years is 48 matches. How long would it take a runner to serve a 48 race penalty? And less not forget the whole idea of the penalty is to try and deter people from DOPING in sport!

see post above yours

 

[Shane Mead]

So 18 months for drinking a ******* sports drink is not good enough for ASADA. What did I say from day 1, WADA is not about catching legit cheats, it is about ruining careers and GETTING PAID!

They showed they AFL they are better politicians by using the state governments to threaten slashing funding if the AFL didn't sign up.

 

[Shane Mead]

I still can't get my head around the fact,that a substance is banned on match day,but is fine on the other 6 days.

Wouldn't it be easier to ban any substance outright, rather than this on and off approach.

WADA doesn't work on logic. The more confusing it is, the more people who will use something wrong. Saad is losing his career because he bought the wrong sports drink...I doubt it made him bigger, faster, stronger and more skill compared to any other sports drink.

WADA is a scam.

 

[daniel_4tw]

So 18 months for drinking a ******* sports drink is not good enough for ASADA. What did I say from day 1, WADA is not about catching legit cheats, it is about ruining careers and GETTING PAID!

They showed they AFL they are better politicians by using the state governments to threaten slashing funding if the AFL didn't sign up.

No. 18 months (soon to be 24) for drug cheating.

He isn't getting banned because he drank a sports drink. He is getting banned because he ingested a banned substance.

A drug cheat is a drug cheat, no matter how you dress it up.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

No. 18 months (soon to be 24) for drug cheating.

He isn't getting banned because he drank a sports drink. He is getting banned because he ingested a banned substance.

A drug cheat is a drug cheat, no matter how you dress it up.

yes, taking an energy drink on matchday is just as bad as injecting actual steroids for a period of time. About right.

 

[Doss]

The one size fits all mentality is just absurd, in my opinion. For exactly the same reason that mandatory sentencing in justice systems in general is such a bad idea, but that's another, much wider issue.

 

[coryne]

yes, taking an energy drink on matchday is just as bad as injecting actual steroids for a period of time. About right.

So you agree that people injecting banned substances should get AT LEAST 18 months ??? That doesn't bode well for the EFC ...............

 

[daniel_4tw]

yes, taking an energy drink on matchday is just as bad as injecting actual steroids for a period of time. About right.

Stop using emotive phrases to make it seem like less of a crime.

Taking a banned substance on match day is just as bad as injecting actual steroids for a period of time.

And it seems so, yes.

ASADA don't care that he drank a sports drink ffs. They care that he took a banned substance.

If steroids was available in certain sports drinks, should the punishment be less because it was in liquid form rather than injections?

Please.

Everyone else can play by the rules. Why can't Saad?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

So you agree that people injecting banned substances should get AT LEAST 18 months ??? That doesn't bode well for the EFC ...............

aside from the fact that's not what I said at all and you're falsely paraphrasing me (such a pathetic debating technique) - the fact of the matter is that yes, I do agree if you are guilty of injecting banned substances under the code you are governed by then you are bound by an appropriate penalty of that code.

I just think having the same penalty for injecting steroids, for example (which Essendon aren't accused of doing, so you can shove your false paraphrasing) as having an energy drink on match day is ******* stupid

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Stop using emotive phrases to make it seem like less of a crime.

Taking a banned substance on match day is just as bad as injecting actual steroids for a period of time.

And it seems so, yes.

ASADA don't care that he drank a sports drink ffs. They care that he took a banned substance.

If steroids was available in certain sports drinks, should the punishment be less because it was in liquid form rather than injections?

Please.

Everyone else can play by the rules. Why can't Saad?

Baldur, care to do the honours? I can't be bothered

 

[Doss]

In what alternate reality is having a banned drink as a one off as bad as systematic and repeated injecting of banned steroids? I honestly can't understand how you can claim they are the same with a straight face.

 

[Crawb]

Look what ASADA are doing to Saad. Good luck Essendon haha :')

 

[daniel_4tw]

In what alternate reality is having a banned drink as a one off as bad as systematic and repeated injecting of banned steroids? I honestly can't understand how you can claim they are the same with a straight face.

Taking a substance to get an unfair advantage over the competitors.

Maybe not quite as bad, but they're both on the side of drug cheats that should be banished from the game.

I don't know what cutting edge drugs are out there - because I don't take drugs in order to get an unfair advantage. But lets say Usain Bolt tested positive to a drug (let's say for arguments sake) that gave him a 15% edge for one day. He took it the day of the Olympic final 100 m sprint. Should get a reduction because 'it was only for one day'.

Also, it's one day he's been caught. How many other times has Saad been cheating without getting caught? Didn't he say he'd had the drink before on game day? Sounds like systematic to me.

The point is, it has nothing to do with the sports drink. It doesn't matter if it was a drink , pill or injection. It makes zero difference. He took a banned substance and got caught. He could have had 'a sports drink', just one that didn't have banned substances in it.

Cheater got caught. The amount of people blaming ASADA for catching someone taking banned substances is staggering.

 

[Doss]

No one is blaming ASADA for catching Saad.

They are saying his punishment is manifestly disproportionate. They are two very different things.

 

[Percel]

No one is blaming ASADA for catching Saad.

They are saying his punishment is manifestly disproportionate. They are two very different things.

This bit

 

[TerryWallet]

yes, taking an energy drink on matchday is just as bad as injecting actual steroids for a period of time. About right.

Tyson Gay and Asafa Powell took exactly the same substance as Ahmed Saad did. Do you think they were taking it for shits n giggles?

"Supplements" and "energy drinks" are regurgitated propaganda names for Banned Performance Enhancing Drugs/Substances.

The wider convo of individual vs team based is an interesting one and also fixed penalties is worth discussing.

But let's not trivialise the fact that WADA rules are their to do the best job possible of deterring PED cheats. Harshness is the only way to do it.

This is not a societal justice thing, this is a professional sport thing.

Saad, Gay and Powell aren't being locked up, they're just not being able to play a sport for a while....because they cheated.

And back on the vexed "team" issue and how WADA Code may struggle with it, that is exactly why James Hird's role is so egrarious. It is one thing to put yourself at risk ala Saad, but it outrageous that Hird put 38 other people at risk through a deliberate program.