Alexander Downer asked to give clemency...

[myee8]

It's to do with this report. Now it says some Vietnamese Australian woman was got caught for drug smuggling in Vietnam Apparently someone wanted Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer to talk to the Vietnamese president to ask for clemency or some sh*t so she won't get some bullets in the head (ie be put to death by firing squad).

The question i want to put to you all is this: should Mr Downer even bother doing this? I mean this is a lady who has entered a country and commited a crime. Shouldn't that mean that she will have to suffer the consequences of her actions under that country's judicial and legal system? I thought it was a case of if you want to enter a country you have to conform to their rules, otherwise don't go there. Yet this lady goes there and commits a crime as serious as drug smuggling, and gets caught. This incident now has been made aware of over here in that i read an article on this in the papers a few weeks ago. You will probably get the bleeding hearts and human rights people having their usual hissy fits and whinging to the government to do something about this.

I mean i have been to Malaysia before (where 2 Australians got executed for drug trafficking, resulting in some tension between Bob Hawke and Dr Mahathir), and i know it isn't Vietnam, but when you fill out those travel forms, it says in bright letters something like drug trafficking and smuggling results in the death penalty. It is common knowledge in such countries of the results if you are caught doing such things, so shouldn't this lady be made to suffer the consequences of her actions of which she ws probably very aware of? I mean otherwise it would mean that anyone can smuggle drugs there, and if they don't get caught then fine (for them). But if they do get caught, then they will probably hope some Western country hears of their 'plight', whereby they will hope someone will intervene coz they have commited such a crime. Just like when US citizen Michael Fay got busted for spray-painting some cars in Singapore, got sentenced to some canings, then President Clinton had to get involved.

So wot do you all think, am i too harsh in my views?

 

[mantis]

Yep, she knew the penalty of drug smuggling in that country, yet still decided to do it for money, tough t***ies, one less drug smuggler & less Heroin in Australia.

 

[Mead]

I'm glad we don't have the death penalty in oz, but realistically, if you go to another country, you know what you're up for. If you don't want to be executed, traffic drugs somewhere less harsh, or just stay the heck out of vietnam altogether.
Its hard to have any sympathy for someone who deals in heroin when you take into account how many people have their lives ruined by that crap. But aside from that- you go to a country, you abide by their laws. If someone comes to Australia, they're subject to our legal system, so its a bit rich to expect that it doesn't work both ways.

 

[tashibatts]

Let her pay the price

She was probably Fully aware of hte consequences if caught- but she still done it..

Do the crime, do the time


The death sentence IMHO is harsh and promotes murder- I mean what are people in the countries that allow the death sentence going to think- if the authorities can kill someone, why cant the public? And what if someone was caught for murder- I am guessing they would get the death sentence, what the hell is the point of that? I personally dont see the point.. life sentence is better.. it gives them plenty of time to think of what they ahve done, and makes them truly sorry- with the death sentence they are gone in minutes and they will never suffer again.. and they wont have learnt, just escaped..




Go Roos

 

[myee8]

Oh please don't forget to vote in this related poll. Cheers all!

 

[dreamkillers]

It's always a bit of a tricky one in regards to penalties like this.....

What I find interesting is a lot of the countries that impose these penalties on the couriers/traffickers have a pretty poor reputation in actually capturing the big drug lords that are making the real money. Most of those caught trafficking like this are dealing in relatively small quantities compared to the drug lords in these countries that have ties to the leaders of these countries and fund their way out of the legal system...........

Whilst I agree with the points made on people visiting overseas countries know the penalties for doing such things I believe the Austalian govt should always ask for clemency on the basis the death penalty is not part of our laws in this country.........

If these countries were really serious about cleaning up drug trafficking they know what needs to be done.......but once again the might dollar rules again..............


As I have posted in another thread if just one innocent person is killed by the death penalty it is one too many........and how do you ever explain that penalty to their family...........

 

[myee8]

Originally posted by dreamkillers
...Whilst I agree with the points made on people visiting overseas countries know the penalties for doing such things I believe the Austalian govt should always ask for clemency on the basis the death penalty is not part of our laws in this country......... ...

With all due respect - so what? It's another country we are talking about, there's no point comparing out country to another and expect Australians who go to another country to expect to be treated in a similar fashion. It sounds a bit arrogant IMO.

 

[mantis]

Originally posted by dreamkillers
As I have posted in another thread if just one innocent person is killed by the death penalty it is one too many........and how do you ever explain that penalty to their family...........

Except in this instance the woman said whe was guilty & did it for money, so as far as I am concerned, she has to suffer the consequences of trying to bring drugs into Australia, which would end up taking young lives.
No sympathy whatsoever, she was willing to profit from the deaths of Australians.

 

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by myee8
With all due respect - so what? It's another country we are talking about, there's no point comparing out country to another and expect Australians who go to another country to expect to be treated in a similar fashion. It sounds a bit arrogant IMO.

That is why I said it is a tricky one in the part of my original post.........

If our country doesn't agree with the death penalty I believe they should make this view known on each occasion one of our citizens are given the death penalty................

We always hear about the couriers getting caught but we rarely hear of the local people in these countries that supply these couriers or the Mr Bigs over hear that use the couriers getting caught..........

If you read my
Posts in the thread about the the little 5yo girl recently attacked in Adelaide you'll see I still believe in suitable penalties - inlcuding some pretty harsh ones...............just not the death penalty.........

You may call my stance arrogant and I don't have a problem with that but you asked for our thoughts and I expressed mine..........

 

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by mantis
Except in this instance the woman said whe was guilty & did it for money, so as far as I am concerned, she has to suffer the consequences of trying to bring drugs into Australia, which would end up taking young lives.
No sympathy whatsoever, she was willing to profit from the deaths of Australians.

That's fine but I believe there are much harsher penalties than the death penalty that can be given to people.............the death penalty is an easy way out.............

Not that I would ever do it myself but if I was in this woman's situation I'd be much happier with the death penalty than life in one of their jails..............that would be a much more suitable penatly - make the rest of their life he**.............

 

[mantis]

Originally posted by dreamkillers
That's fine but I believe there are much harsher penalties than the death penalty that can be given to people.............the death penalty is an easy way out.............

Not that I would ever do it myself but if I was in this woman's situation I'd be much happier with the death penalty than life in one of their jails..............that would be a much more suitable penatly - make the rest of their life he**.............

If she has to live her life out in a Vietnamese jail I would be happy, but don't think she deserves to serve her sentence in an Australian Jail, she will suffer more over there.

 

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by mantis
If she has to live her life out in a Vietnamese jail I would be happy, but don't think she deserves to serve her sentence in an Australian Jail, she will suffer more over there.

Agreed and that's why nothing like that was suggested in my previous post.................I'm all for suitable penalties just not the death penalty as is clearly shown in the other thread..........

 

[Uncle Steve]

When in Rome, do as the Romans. She rolls the dice, she takes her chances - and I sincerely hope Mr. Downer does not waste any of My Tax Dollars paying for her metaphorical gambling debts.

 

[knuckles]

Selective reasoning. What about the number of couriers that are set up? Common in Thailand. Single backpacker having good time. Heads off to airport. Courier contact place small satchel of coocaine in his pack, informs cops, then proceeds through customs unchecked. Backpacker has neck stretched. Bad luck?

The issue the Aust govt has is that the judicial ystem in TH,MY and VN are significantly flawed. Guilty until proven innocent. Plead guilty for 50 years, or not guilty for death - nice choice. Low burden of proof.

Yes, Downer should intervene always.

 

[Bomber Spirit]

Of course we should create a diplomatic incident by sticking our noses in another country's legal system. She's only a drug smuggler who didn't know that it was a capital offence.

 

[mantis]

Exactly BS & I don't want any of my taxes being spent on someone who was trying to profit from bringing in drugs for Aussie kids to pump into their arms, possibly causing their deaths, plus the resultant crimes that would be committed, so they can afford to buy the drugs.

Basically **** her.

 

[knuckles]

Originally posted by Bomber Spirit
Of course we should create a diplomatic incident by sticking our noses in another country's legal system. She's only a drug smuggler who didn't know that it was a capital offence.

Dr Mahathir, welcome.
Really? What about protecting the rights and welfare of Australian citizens. Diplomatic missions are there for a reason other than a jolly.

Hmmmm, Barlow, Anwar - pretty vocal there.

 

[mantis]

Originally posted by knuckles
Dr Mahathir, welcome.
Really? What about protecting the rights and welfare of Australian citizens. Diplomatic missions are there for a reason other than a jolly.

Hmmmm, Barlow, Anwar - pretty vocal there.

You seem to be missing one point, in this case the woman has admitted to doing it for money, therefore she deserves what she gets.

 

[Bomber Spirit]

Originally posted by knuckles
Really? What about protecting the rights and welfare of Australian citizens. Diplomatic missions are there for a reason other than a jolly.

But they're not there to protect drug traffickers. She knew the risks, she knew what she was taking on.

 

[myee8]

Originally posted by dreamkillers
That is why I said it is a tricky one in the part of my original post.........

If our country doesn't agree with the death penalty I believe they should make this view known on each occasion one of our citizens are given the death penalty................

We always hear about the couriers getting caught but we rarely hear of the local people in these countries that supply these couriers or the Mr Bigs over hear that use the couriers getting caught..........

If you read my
Posts in the thread about the the little 5yo girl recently attacked in Adelaide you'll see I still believe in suitable penalties - inlcuding some pretty harsh ones...............just not the death penalty.........

You may call my stance arrogant and I don't have a problem with that but you asked for our thoughts and I expressed mine..........

I know and i expressed my thoughts back .

 

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by myee8
I know and i expressed my thoughts back .

Cheers.....