Mega Thread All AOD-9604 Discussion - Still Illegal but ASADA will not press charges on AOD9604 - McDevitt

[PieBeast]

Where does their confidence come from then?

I don't think they are confident for absolutely no reason, that would be absurd IMO.

I think their confidence comes from being told it wasn't prohibited under s2.

Anyway, happy to agree to disagree.

From incorrect interpretation of the WADA Code.

They think ASADA addressing AOD under S2 means the substance falls under that clause.

But someone forgot to to tell BSE/Wafeley and Garnham that all substances in the S2 category are prohibited and thus their line of reasoning is bordering on severe mental deficiency.

 

[*PAF]

...

I think their confidence comes from being told it wasn't prohibited under s2.
...

That on its own doesn't mean it isn't prohibited.
They have categories for substances approved for human use and a category that says anything not approved for human use is automatically banned.
Once approved for human use it may well be banned under s2 (or not) but until then it doesn't qualify to be looked at under any categories apart from s0.

I'm far removed from knowledge in this field but I struggle to read it any other way.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Where does their confidence come from then?

I don't think they are confident for absolutely no reason, that would be absurd IMO.

I think their confidence comes from being told it wasn't prohibited under s2.

Anyway, happy to agree to disagree.

There's also the issue of when they were told whatever they were told. Reid stopped AOD injections (that had been going on without him knowing) in January 2012, and Dank's published email correspondence with WADA about S2 and the advice to contact ASADA was not until February. So the advice he/they then got from ASADA would be moot.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

From incorrect interpretation of the WADA Code.

They think ASADA addressing AOD under S2 means the substance falls under that clause.

But someone forgot to to tell BSE/Wafeley and Garnham that all substances in the S2 category are prohibited and thus their line of reasoning is bordering on severe mental deficiency.

yep. how would ASADA know the names and properties of every single peptide? it's just unrealistic.

this is how i see the conversation going:

dank: "hi i'm looking at using this peptide AOD"
ASADA: "hi dank, we can confirm that AOD is not listed under category S2. please consider S0."
dank: "thanks for the confirmation. it'll not be prohibited because i'll have it packaged by a compound chemist here in australia"

oops.

it's not ASADA's responsibility to know whether what you're taking might fall under S0, it's the players/medical staff.

 

[PieBeast]

^^^ Thats the account of the conversation with WADA not ASADA.

Up to this day we don't have a shred of evidence Dank even bothered to follow up on WADA rep's advice and inquire about AOD with ASADA.

 

[Suma Magic]

That on its own doesn't mean it isn't prohibited.
They have categories for substances approved for human use and a category that says anything not approved for human use is automatically banned.
Once approved for human use it may well be banned under s2 (or not) but until then it doesn't qualify to be looked at under any categories apart from s0.

I'm far removed from knowledge in this field but I struggle to read it any other way.

Oh yeah I'm not a BSE believer. I'm just speculating on why they think it was ok to use.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

^^^ Thats the account of the conversation with WADA not ASADA.

Up to this day we don't have a shred of evidence Dank even bothered to follow up on WADA rep's advice and inquire about AOD with ASADA.

yeah i'm just assuming that if a conversation were to be had it would have gone similarly.

 

[Mutt]

yep. how would ASADA know the names and properties of every single peptide? it's just unrealistic.

this is how i see the conversation going:

dank: "hi i'm looking at using this peptide AOD"
ASADA: "hi dank, we can confirm that AOD is not listed under category S2. please consider S0."
dank: "thanks for the confirmation. it'll not be prohibited because i'll have it packaged by a compound chemist here in australia"

oops.

it's not ASADA's responsibility to know whether what you're taking might fall under S0, it's the players/medical staff.

or...

DANK to ASADA: Is this ASADA? Yep...good...it's Danky again here. Is AOD-9604 prohibited under S2?
ASADA to DANK: No it's not.
DANK toi ASADA: Cool. Thanks.

DANK to EFC: ASADA have told me AOD-9604 is not banned under S2, so let's get it into all our guys asap before the Pies get too far ahead of us.
EFC to DANK: So it's WADA approved?
DANK to EFC: Well not exactly... it's not banned if we get a compounding pharmacist to make it up - we can't buy it direct.
EFC to DANK: Ripper Danky...how soon can you start?

 

[Brenton Davy]

^^^ Thats the account of the conversation with WADA not ASADA.

Up to this day we don't have a shred of evidence Dank even bothered to follow up on WADA rep's advice and inquire about AOD with ASADA.

But, but, but! What about the mysterious "letter" than no-one seems to be able to find?

 

[Just interested]

Part of the bombres' legal advice:

Public statements by WADA or any other body do not determine prohibited status under WADC.
viii. These are questions to be proved if and when ASADA finds a possible violation as a result of its ongoing investigation. For example ASADA would need to prove on the Briginshaw standard of proof – close to beyond reasonable doubt; that AOD is included within the terms of either S.2. or S.0 of the Prohibited List.

Not that it matters, but that's precisely what I have been trying to argue in layman's terms for a long time now.

Anything that Fahey says publicly counts for diddly squat.

When Fahey says it is the "not approved for human use" status of AOD, everywhere on the planet, that predetermines its scheduling as S0, then that counts for way more than "diddly squat". He is explaining the Code's logic.

Is the EFC's legal stance going to be that their medicos didn't bother to check whether the stuff they planned to inject was even approved by the TGA?

Great! That'll work a treat, I'm sure. Just as a matter of interest, how is this genius legal team going to explain away Reid's references to AOD in his letter? Rush back to the sloppy interpretation of the ACC report, perhaps? If they're gonna try that, it might be best to rip out the 2 consecutive pages referring to the SUSMP and Custom's status of AOD (which just happens to be linked rather neatly to the ASADA Act of '06).

 

[Sector 7G]

^^^ Thats the account of the conversation with WADA not ASADA.

Up to this day we don't have a shred of evidence Dank even bothered to follow up on WADA rep's advice and inquire about AOD with ASADA.

Dank told B&McK that he didn't have an ASADA enquiry receipt because "he was straight in the bowels of ASADA".

Looks like he was facilitating the ASADA dump on the EFC.

 

[Cronos]

Dank told B&McK that he didn't have an ASADA enquiry receipt because "he was straight in the bowels of ASADA".

Looks like he was facilitating the ASADA dump on the EFC.

Is that a euphemism for something?

 

[PieBeast]

But, but, but! What about the mysterious "letter" than no-one seems to be able to find?

The letter never existed, Essendon relied on the email from Calzada and were hoping to circumnavigate the WADA Code by sourcing it through compounding chemists.

The "addressed" under S2 waffle was born when they realised first two loopholes weren't legit.

Thats all there is to it

 

[Just interested]

You live in your universe, where the rules say something they dont.

I live in a universe where WADA cares about team based doping with the involvement of team doctors, and a suspicious lack of paperwork.

Nah, WADA don't particularly care about upholding their own Code. Who's this Bolt fella, anyway? He must be a mega doper.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/doping-...cipation-in-next-olympics-20130822-2scns.html

 

[Aerial Ping Pong]

Dank told B&McK that he didn't have an ASADA enquiry receipt because "he was straight in the bowels of ASADA".

Looks like he was facilitating the ASADA dump on the EFC.

Thumbs up.. This is why the whole argument about S2 and S0 means diddly squat. There is one method for making an inquiry on ASADA and that method is documented and the club and players are educated on this every year. This method provides a receipt number.

There is no alternate method called "going straight to the bowels of ASADA". EFC cannot claim they have received inconsistent advice from ASADA as they never contacted ASADA. They cannot complain that you can get confused if you look at the code on the website. This is not the method to get advice. You must ring up say who you are, what you intend to use, how much, why and who is supplying it. They give you a ticket number and say OK or not.

Oh, by the way, you do this before you use it.

 

[Barkly St End]

When Fahey says it is the "not approved for human use" status of AOD, everywhere on the planet, that predetermines its scheduling as S0, then that counts for way more than "diddly squat". He is explaining the Code's logic.

Nah - counts for diddly squat.

Each test needs to be proven before the charge can be sustained - what Fahey says publicly counts for diddly squat.

 

[Barkly St End]

Nah, WADA don't particularly care about upholding their own Code. Who's this Bolt fella, anyway? He must be a mega doper.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/doping-...cipation-in-next-olympics-20130822-2scns.html

Every nation on Earth would be thrown out of the Olympics if that principle were applied across the board (except for dirt poor nations - is eating dirt a breach of SO?).

 

[Football Pope]

Is that a euphemism for something?

Close....Just Danks mouthin' off after the self administered euphoriants kicked in...

 

[The Dodger]

Come on...Dank said he got in touch with ASADA, and that ASADA were nice enough to contact the manufacturer of the drug and because it was available in Bodyshaper s0 did not apply.

So its all settled then...oh and he doesn't have any proof of this because he was in the bowels of ASADA....no doubt giving them a colonoscopy.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Come on...Dank said he got in touch with ASADA, and that ASADA were nice enough to contact the manufacturer of the drug and because it was available in Bodyshaper s0 did not apply.

So its all settled then...oh and he doesn't have any proof of this because he was in the bowels of ASADA....no doubt giving them a colonoscopy.

That is actually called a virtual colonoscopy!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

or...

DANK to ASADA: Is this ASADA? Yep...good...it's Danky again here. Is AOD-9604 prohibited under S2?
ASADA to DANK: No it's not.
DANK toi ASADA: Cool. Thanks.

DANK to EFC: ASADA have told me AOD-9604 is not banned under S2, so let's get it into all our guys asap before the Pies get too far ahead of us.
EFC to DANK: So it's WADA approved?
DANK to EFC: Well not exactly... it's not banned if we get a compounding pharmacist to make it up - we can't buy it direct.
EFC to DANK: Ripper Danky...how soon can you start?

That's not true at all, its DANKSY Hird calls him.
But apart from that ....

 

[Barkly St End]

14 hours and still counting.

The evidence must have been overwhelming.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

14 hours and still counting.

The evidence must have been overwhelming.

The sticking point seems to be Hird. He wants the charges worded so that he doesn't look like a cheat if he accepts the penalty.
He obviously realises that his whole future is dependent on this. The threat of going to court and stuffing up the AFL's timeline is enough to force them to sit and negotiate.

 

[Barkly St End]

The sticking point seems to be Hird. He wants the charges worded so that he doesn't look like a cheat if he accepts the penalty.
He obviously realises that his whole future is dependent on this. The threat of going to court and stuffing up the AFL's timeline is enough to force them to sit and negotiate.

Yes, true.

People might be surprised in the end that the overall penalty will be the proverbial slap on the wrist.

And then everyone will get on with it.

 

[Cronos]

Yes, true.

People might be surprised in the end that the overall penalty will be the proverbial slap on the wrist.

And then everyone will get on with it.

...until ASADA finish their investigation and issue infractions for ADRV's. Then the big guns come out.