All Things Politics (excluding Israel/Palestine)

[The Royal Sampler]

Yeah the more I read of the decision, the more it feels like a pyrrhic victory.

Assange can’t introduce new evidence, for example the revelations that the CIA was spying on him while in the Ecuadorian embassy, or that Mike Pompeo asked for options to be drawn up for Assange to be assassinated or abducted.

He won’t be able to use a public interest defence, saying he was performing a public service by exposing state war crimes, torture, rendition and murder of civilians.

The British High Court has ruled that he can’t appeal on the basis of that it would violate the US-UK extradition treaty, simply because the conditions of the treaty aren’t also enshrined in UK domestic law.

All the US has to do is provide some updated assurances that he will get a fair trial and avoid the death penalty, and it doesn’t look as though even a limited appeal will be permitted on May 20th.

I think this will end up being appealed to the European Court of Human Rights, and even then it’s mathematically unlikely they will hear it.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Just watched the Four Corners episode “Rules of Engagement” on David McBride.

An eye opener.

He seems like a well-intentioned but pretty messed up dude. I wish him well, but I think he broke the law and probably shouldn’t be protected as a whistleblower.

 

[sr36]

Just watched the Four Corners episode “Rules of Engagement” on David McBride.

An eye opener.

He seems like a well-intentioned but pretty messed up dude. I wish him well, but I think he broke the law and probably shouldn’t be protected as a whistleblower.

He seemed very messed up.

The interesting thing about both Assange and McBride is that they both leaked stuff which exposed war crimes, but neither of them were really war crimes whistle blowers.

Assange just leaked everything he could get his hands on.
McBride was trying to leak that the soldiers were being too scrutinised for thier killing.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

He seemed very messed up.

The interesting thing about both Assange and McBride is that they both leaked stuff which exposed war crimes, but neither of them were really war crimes whistle blowers.

Assange just leaked everything he could get his hands on.
McBride was trying to leak that the soldiers were being too scrutinised for thier killing.

Assange is a publisher, and not a whistleblower at all. He is simply ahead of his time publishing this stuff on the internet, and the world needed to come around to the idea that print media is no longer the be-all and end-all. He would represent Dan Oakes of the ABC in McBride’s unfolding of events… who was not charged with any crime.

McBride stole documents which led to the revealing of war crimes, but that wasn’t his intention at the time. In my mind you can’t just “luck into” a public interest defence. He would tangentially represent the Chelsea Manning of Assange’s story, except Manning knew what she was doing and did it anyway because she felt the public deserved to know. She still served her time before receiving a presidential pardon.

 

[sr36]

Assange is a publisher, and not a whistleblower at all. He is simply ahead of his time publishing this stuff on the internet, and the world needed to come around to the idea that print media is no longer the be-all and end-all. He would represent Dan Oakes of the ABC in McBride’s unfolding of events… who was not charged with any crime.

McBride stole documents which led to the revealing of war crimes, but that wasn’t his intention at the time. In my mind you can’t just “luck into” a public interest defence. He would tangentially represent the Chelsea Manning of Assange’s story, except Manning knew what she was doing and did it anyway because she felt the public deserved to know. She still served her time before receiving a presidential pardon.

I view Assange as being a lot greyer than you do.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I view Assange as being a lot greyer than you do.

I’m not saying I’d like to have a beer with the guy, but that shouldn’t come into it.

 

[sr36]

I’m not saying I’d like to have a beer with the guy, but that shouldn’t come into it.

I'm more suggesting that leaking everything which comes your way is very different to what Oakes and the ABC did. They went through the leaks and worked out if there was a public interest story in them and what that story was rather than automatically disseminating them based on an anti-secrecy ideology, which by default also becomes an anti-privacy ideology.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I'm more suggesting that leaking everything which comes your way is very different to what Oakes and the ABC did. They went through the leaks and worked out if there was a public interest story in them and what that story was rather than automatically disseminating them based on an anti-secrecy ideology, which by default also becomes an anti-privacy ideology.

By all reports, Assange worked extensively with The Guardian and other news outlets, and heavily redacted sections which would have compromised assets working overseas. It seems the narrative that he just dumped everything online without a care is part of the smear campaign against him.

 

[sr36]

By all reports, Assange worked extensively with The Guardian and other news outlets, and heavily redacted sections which would have compromised assets working overseas. It seems the narrative that he just dumped everything online without a care is part of the smear campaign against him.

Here's the stated function.

"an uncensorable system for untraceable mass document leaking"

They weren't a standard news outlet the way the story is being currently told.

Wikileaks forwarded to the world most of what Manning leaked. They published heaps of personal correspondence with zero newsworthy relevance as well as the stuff that got them into trouble.

 

[swoop42]

Personally I don't see much of a difference between what Assange is accused of and the decisions made by traditional media to publish information by whistleblowers.

Even if you think Assange is guilty of something he's been punished enough already and let's not forget that Manning the person who actually provided the information had their sentenced commuted by President Obama.

Enough is enough and the Australian government should be pressuring the Biden administration to do the same for Assange and if our long standing history of being a loyal ally to the US counts for anything they should listen.

 

[sr36]

Personally I don't see much of a difference between what Assange is accused of and the decisions made by traditional media to publish information by whistleblowers.

Even if you think Assange is guilty of something he's been punished enough already and let's not forget that Manning the person who actually provided the information had their sentenced commuted by President Obama.

Enough is enough and the Australian government should be pressuring the Biden administration to do the same for Assange and if our long standing history of being a loyal ally to the US counts for anything they should listen.

Despite seeing a big difference between Wikileaks and traditional media, I agree. He's done his time. Just drop it.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Here's the stated function.

"an uncensorable system for untraceable mass document leaking"

They weren't a standard news outlet the way the story is being currently told.

You’re right, they definitely weren’t a standard news outlet, no argument there. However they did publish, and they published material in a format which met a need that wasn’t being catered to elsewhere.

I see WikiLeaks as being the uber to the New York Times’ taxi, or the Air BnB to their hotels. Just ahead of the times.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Despite seeing a big difference between Wikileaks and traditional media, I agree. He's done his time. Just drop it.

He's a likably quirky chap, who hated military and intelligence systems that hid their dark acts from the public who paid them, and standing by his ideals has cost him dearly. Anyone who swims against the flow in mirky political waters is worth supporting in my view. I remember his first released video of the helicopter ships mowing down innocent citizens and believing then that this kind of material needed public exposure.

I avoid any sordid details suggested about his life and questions marks over his personal morality, and just plough on believing in him regardless. After following him all this time, to just walk meekly away and let the Yanks have their way with him is not an option. I've decided I like what he represents and no facts or opinions are going to change my mind at this stage.

 

[sr36]

He's a likably quirky chap, who hated military and intelligence systems that hid their dark acts from the public who paid them, and standing by his ideals has cost him dearly. Anyone who swims against the flow in mirky political waters is worth supporting in my view. I remember his first released video of the helicopter ships mowing down innocent citizens and believing then that this kind of material needed public exposure.

I avoid any sordid details suggested about his life and questions marks over his personal morality, and just plough on believing in him regardless. After following him all this time, to just walk meekly away and let the Yanks have their way with him is not an option. I've decided I like what he represents and no facts or opinions are going to change my mind at this stage.

He's an interesting cat. I don't really have any issues with him.

Itn terms of wikileak, it's fantastic exposing secrets when they're as dark as some of the stuff they exposed. I'm not that comfortable though with a world with no secrets, as they were also publishing personal stuff for no reason and other military secrets that I'm not as comfortable with

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

He's an interesting cat. I don't really have any issues with him.

Itn terms of wikileak, it's fantastic exposing secrets when they're as dark as some of the stuff they exposed. I'm not that comfortable though with a world with no secrets, as they were also publishing personal stuff for no reason and other military secrets that I'm not as comfortable with

I see nothing, I hear nothing.

 

[Markfs]

The main thing is to demonstrate to those in the media that they shouldnt publish anything that is embarassing to the govt. I think that has been done. Many ordinary folk support the US/AUST/UK gov'ts in their position for some reason. I suppose they like to feel a part of something. It's a trump type loyalty thing. Nationalism. Following a particular religion. A sense of belonging. They feel others need information in order to protect them. What a strange thought. It seems to me that everyone in power is working within the confines of self-interest, even when they are networking to improve their own position. Why would these people consider your interests if you've never even spoken to them? Baffling. Ironically, even Assange was operating under self interest. He lost.

Lesson to be learnt? Keep your mouth shut. Preach an autruistic strategy to fool the masses but dont rely on others for your own health and safety...unless its your family...maybe.

 

[Black_White]

Personally I don't see much of a difference between what Assange is accused of and the decisions made by traditional media to publish information by whistleblowers.

Even if you think Assange is guilty of something he's been punished enough already and let's not forget that Manning the person who actually provided the information had their sentenced commuted by President Obama.

Enough is enough and the Australian government should be pressuring the Biden administration to do the same for Assange and if our long standing history of being a loyal ally to the US counts for anything they should listen.

The Australian government, this one and the previous one, have been working behind the scenes to bring Assange back to Australia.
They were also working behind the scenes when the previous president was in charge, but that was always going to be a lost cause.
Just because they haven’t let this work play out publicly doesn’t mean it’s not happening.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

The Australian government, this one and the previous one, have been working behind the scenes to bring Assange back to Australia.
They were also working behind the scenes when the previous president was in charge, but that was always going to be a lost cause.
Just because they haven’t let this work play out publicly doesn’t mean it’s not happening.

Anyone can pretend to be working behind the scenes as an excuse for inaction. The likes of Albo and Wong need to show that they are not bereft of the testicular fortitude required to work centre stage, when the curtain is up, the spotlights glaring and the audience hushed in anticipation of action.

Anyone can potter and shuffle around back stage pretending to get stuff done, but the way to convince people that you have their interests at heart in this world is to stand up and be counted, rather than allowing stage fright to consume your courage, or worse still, not having anything at all you want to say because you don't believe in anything real anymore.

 

[Black_White]

Anyone can pretend to be working behind the scenes as an excuse for inaction. The likes of Albo and Wong need to show that they are not bereft of the testicular fortitude required to work centre stage, when the curtain is up, the spotlights glaring and the audience hushed in anticipation of action.

Anyone can potter and shuffle around back stage pretending to get stuff done, but the way to convince people that you have their interests at heart in this world is to stand up and be counted, rather than allowing stage fright to consume your courage, or worse still, not having anything at all you want to say because you don't believe in anything real anymore.

“Pretend”?
Seriously I thought you were smarter than that.
Yes both Lib and Labor governments have been working behind the scenes on this issue. Because to work on it in the open invites Trump to join the conversation and rile up his followers to demand not just jail for Assange, but the death penalty.
No matter how much traction has been made behind closed doors, time has run out. To drop the extradition case against Assange now simply plays into Trumps (tiny) hands. Biden would be a fool to act now.
Read the room.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

“Pretend”?
Seriously I thought you were smarter than that.
Yes both Lib and Labor governments have been working behind the scenes on this issue. Because to work on it in the open invites Trump to join the conversation and rile up his followers to demand not just jail for Assange, but the death penalty.
No matter how much traction has been made behind closed doors, time has run out. To drop the extradition case against Assange now simply plays into Trumps (tiny) hands. Biden would be a fool to act now.
Read the room.

Just watching Albo on 7.30 Report on calling for an Israeli ceasefire. What a piss-weak creature he is! I have no more I want to add to the comment. I have zero respect for him and the Labour government.

 

[Mauvais Cheval]

I see nothing, I hear nothing.
View attachment 1945111 View attachment 1945118

TGG, is there something I should know???

Have you been holding out on the herd all this time?

 

[Black_White]

Just watching Albo on 7.30 Report on calling for an Israeli ceasefire. What a piss-weak creature he is! I have no more I want to add to the comment. I have zero respect for him and the Labour government.

Until you are prepared to tell us what you really think I’m not sure you should continue posting…..

 

[JB1975]

Here's the wisdom of athletes, criticising the Qld government because it refuses to commit to the spirit of the Olympic Games by bankrupting itself in the effort to stage them.

Queensland premier hits back at Olympians over open letter criticising Brisbane 2032 plans

Olympic legends such as Grant Hackett and Sally Pearson hit out at plans for Brisbane 2032 as the Queensland premier defends his government's stance.

www.abc.net.au

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Here's the wisdom of athletes, criticising the Qld government because it refuses to commit to the spirit of the Olympic Games by bankrupting itself in the effort to stage them.

Queensland premier hits back at Olympians over open letter criticising Brisbane 2032 plans

Olympic legends such as Grant Hackett and Sally Pearson hit out at plans for Brisbane 2032 as the Queensland premier defends his government's stance.

www.abc.net.au

But, but, but Queensland has a “go-ahead spirit”?!?

 

[JB1975]

But, but, but Queensland has a “go-ahead spirit”?!?

I enjoyed that bit.

It's a real thing, that Qld 'go ahead spirit', best exemplified by the Fitzgerald inquiry.

Australian athletes have had too much smoke blown up them for so many years, they have lost whatever sense of perspective they ever possessed in the first place.