Politics & Government Appealling a Jaywalking Fine

[Silent Alarm]

So last week me and a mate were walking from the pub to another place. We were pulled over by a cop van we didn't even see, and were promptly made to hand over our IDs. I asked the woman officer if we were being fined, and she shook her hand and quietly said "no, you're fine."

My mate text me just then saying he'd arrived back home in WA to a pair of $72 jaywalking fines.

Is there any way to appeal this? Can I argue any case? How lax are they? Is it like when you get done for your myki and argue that you 'touched on,' but that no sound was registered?

 

[George Washington]

See she thought you said

"Are we fine?"

And she shook her head and said "No, you're being fined".

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Hole up somewhere quiet and fight the extradition order while you start up a whistle blowing website.

 

[Silent Alarm]

See she thought you said

"Are we fine?"

And she shook her head and said "No, you're being fined".

Probably more a typically transparent case of good cop/bad cop. According to a lawyer, that's grounds for the fine's dismissal. But it's impossible to verify she said that. I'm out.

 

[DREAM TEAM BUFF]

Did you get the female cop ID or name ?

 

[The_Reaper]

Would solve Barnett's credit rating problem if they started fining people over here.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

So last week me and a mate were walking from the pub to another place. We were pulled over by a cop van we didn't even see, and were promptly made to hand over our IDs. I asked the woman officer if we were being fined, and she shook her hand and quietly said "no, you're fine."

My mate text me just then saying he'd arrived back home in WA to a pair of $72 jaywalking fines.

Is there any way to appeal this? Can I argue any case? How lax are they? Is it like when you get done for your myki and argue that you 'touched on,' but that no sound was registered?

You can ask for an internal review from the police. Sign a stat dec saying your version of events and send it to the civic compliance centre.

If that fails, then the magistrates court, but that is not worth it for $72.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Did you get the female cop ID or name ?

Nah, I didn't think and I was more just surprised we were getting pulled up.

You can ask for an internal review from the police. Sign a stat dec saying your version of events and send it to the civic compliance centre.

Knowing Vicpol, they'll look at it, then at each other, then have a hearty chortle and never glance at it again.

I'm just going to pay for it. As poor a student I may be, $72 isn't that much. It's just pretty frustrating when you get pinged while there's a punch up down King Street.

 

[bkozican]

Jay walking

Just dont pay it mate, I wouldn't. Fair enough if its a speeding fine but jay walking.....Nope.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Jay walking

Just dont pay it mate, I wouldn't. Fair enough if its a speeding fine but jay walking.....Nope.

What are the consequences of this?

 

[bkozican]

I'm not to familiar with Victorian law. Just put it to the bottom of the pile. That aren't going to lock you up.

Seriously though...................Jay walking. I always thought that was just an Americian thing.

Below is info from wiki

In Australia, it is illegal to start crossing the road at an intersection when a pedestrian light is red or flashing red.[20] If no such pedestrian light exists, the traffic lights are used, making it illegal to proceed on red or orange. Furthermore, it is illegal to cross any road within 20 m of an intersection with pedestrian lights or within 20 m of any pedestrian crossing (including a zebra crossing, school crossing, or any other pedestrian crossing).[20] However, laws against jaywalking are rarely enforced, with the exception of the occasional police "blitz" on jaywalking for a week or so at a time, when the laws are enforced more stringently. Some roads, such as roads with a record of pedestrian accidents feature fences in their centres to discourage pedestrians but there is no law against traversing them.[21]

Did you guys upset these cops in any way ???

 

[Silent Alarm]

Did you guys upset these cops in any way ???

Not at all. I said we'd been to the pub, were over for the Spring Carnival, and were doing a lap to see the city before heading home to Fitzroy. Apparently they've started a bit of a blitz on it, no doubt to fill the cops nightly quota, especially around the CBD and Carlton (and that's where we were: right where they meet).

 

[bkozican]

Not at all. I said we'd been to the pub, were over for the Spring Carnival, and were doing a lap to see the city before heading home to Fitzroy. Apparently they've started a bit of a blitz on it, no doubt to fill the cops nightly quota, especially around the CBD and Carlton (and that's where we were: right where they meet).

Fair enough mate, I have had my run in's with the police . It's only 75 bucks man, I still wouldn't pay it. It is a stupid charge to say the least. Its police like this that fire the hatred towards the force. Instead of just saying "look mate you guys are doing the wrong thing, If I catch you again I will fine you" instead of just filling up their quota's for the night. Long story short, I wouldn't pay it. It's up to you........obviously. Like I said before I'm not familiar with Victorian law but my guess is that they won't chase you up for it. Just plead innocent.

 

[Cleavy]

tell them your name isn't Jay.

 

[Maddo11]

tell them your name isn't Jay.

On this note, rock up in a wheel chair. Is jay-rolling a thing?

 

[Kram]

Jaywalking? Seriously? If you weren't being smartarses or acting stupid that's so lame. Most cops seem to be to be decent and reasonable people but the force will always unfortunately attract a % of complete tossers.

 

[Silent Alarm]

It is a stupid charge to say the least. Its police like this that fire the hatred towards the force.

As a West Aussie, you really notice how terrible the rapport is between police and citizens is in Melbourne. Young people especially.

I was at a club the night after the jaywalking and two police were in a club – this is a club where I've never seen anyone racking lines in the toilet or handing over $20s. As far as stigmas go, this place doesn't even rate a mention. Why be suited up and ruin the vibe of primarily 18-22 year olds in a place not even known for drug usage?

 

[kickazz]

I think you just gotta suck it up. They do have crackdowns on this every now and then. I've always been of the opinion that it is kinda bullshit to get fined for it, but if one does get busted then you can't really complain. It's kind of funny watching people get tickets for it.

Dunno if true but someone told me the punishment in Singapore for jay-walking is that the cop makes you cross the road properly 100 times.

 

[Helicopter Punt]

I didn't know we were in Nazi Germany. In a common law jurisdiction the only party in that situation with the authority to demand 'identity papers' was you.
Unless you were in the commission of a crime they were just soliciting. They have assumed your consent. Break the assumption.
Too late now, perhaps next time you commit such a heinous act.

Fire up phone recorder and ask "Are you prepared to claim - on your full commercial liability and under the penalty of perjury - that in a common law jurisdiction I have an obligation to be in possession of state issued identification in order to exercise my common law rights?" Ask them to refer you to the law.
or
"why are you asking me for identification when I have no obligation to even have any let alone proffer it on demand - but you do. I now need to see your delegation of authority, badge and I will need you to provide me a card with your name, title and contact details."

Understand the difference between you and your person/strawman/legal fiction/Cestui Qui Trust and understand the difference between law and statute.
Lastly understand which of the latter is applied to each of the former.

You never broke any law, but you breached a contract. Handing your ID over gave them evidence of person-status and your entry into statutory jurisdiction (statutes now applicable - jaywalking illegal), confirmed you as a party to the contract and gave them reasonable belief that you consent to act as surety for the person (Mr. Silent Alarm).

Until you volunteered your ID (cops had no authority to demand at that point - unless you were walking around with license/birth cert/any evidence of contract with the state blu-tacked to your forehead) all your sovereign inviolable rights were intact. Looks like you gotta pay.

Warning - This advice/attitude may get you tasered.

 

[kfc1]

WAT

 

[Helicopter Punt]

WAT

Cops are not omnipotent. Certain conditions need to apply before they have authority over you (irrespective of your consent).
Crossing the road is not one of those conditions.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Jay walking?

I am stunned, could understand it if you had done something else they can't prove, but this is nuts.

Seriously though, I would just cop it sweet, I would be guessing there are penalties for not paying by a certain time and they will start to spiral.

 

[radiojake]

I nearly talked myself into a jaywalking fine quite a few years ago - Was with a group of friends crossing the road on Russell St near Little Burke... There was a little red man and the lights were green for the perpendicular traffic, but being late at night, there were no cars at all so we crossed the road...

As we got to the other side, I noticed some cops... I start to veer away from them because I know I'm not great at keeping my mouth shut around them (or atleast... I wasn't back then) and I thought I was clear until one of them stopped me and told me to "...be careful crossing the road..." and I nearly snapped...

Had this moron not seen the fact that there were absolutely zero cars along Russell street at the particular time we chose to cross the road? If there had been cars, we would've waited for the lights...

So, because I couldn't help myself, I informed the cop that there were no cars on the road, so we had taken due care in crossing the road... That was all the prick needed and he pulled me up and took my ID, to which I responded by calling him a campaigner-stable a couple of times... my girlfriend hit me to shut me up... The cop knew what I said but I guess it would be kind of hard for him to take it any further....

Took down my address and said there was a jaywalking fine heading my way... but it never came, so I'm not sure if it got lost or if he never put the report through...

Either way, it's ridiculously easy for these pricks to try to put any old fine on you --

 

[worbod]

If you walk in a crooked line but stay within a pedestrian crossing is that still classified as J-walking?

 

[Vic Vinegar]

Actually, that's $72 of my money, not yours. I work and pay taxes, you don't.

So pay up, moocher.