Are We Improving?

[9th Placed Finish]

Are we actually getting better? I find it to be an interesting question, because if you simply look at the ladder and where we sit the answer would be a resounding NO!. However if you look a little deeper the signs are there that the Richmond Football Club are actually getting better not worse. First off take a look at the actual results of games against sides we played and got belted by last year. WCE belted us in the last game by 80 odd points this time around it was about 3-4 goals. This is despite the fact we were missing a number of our more experienced players this time around. Look at the Swans who both times we played last year simply toyed with us. 20 goals first time around & about 40 odd the second time. This year it was about 3 goals and we were actually in a position to win the match. I look at results like these 2 and think that despite the ladder position we find ourselves in we are getting better. Now I know some of you may laugh at this thread and tell me to piss off and thats your choice if you want to do that, but just take a step back and look at how competitive we have been this year in all bar 2 games despite not having 3 of our best 6 players available. Any side in the comp that was missing that sort of class from their side would struggle, don't believe me take a look at the WCE last 5 weeks when they have been missing a few of their top liners 2 wins 3 losses is their record. We might be losing games but at least we are not getting belted as often as we were last year when we were winning games.

 

[roostertalk]

I think we have definitely improved from the beginning of this year, my simple rationale being that we are now gallantly losing to good sides with a bunch of pups running around. At the beginning of the year when we had the Kraks, P bowdens and tivvers running around in the starting 18 we were gallantly losing in much the same fashion.

The fact the avergae age of the list (starting 18) has decreased a sh1tload can only be a good thing when we're still showing a bit of fight and the youngsters are starting to show more and more each week. disregard the Geelong game but in a way i think thats maybe when it all turned around for the youngsters. I think that was the benchmark for a new tiger era, they genuinely hurt and had a red hot crack the next week, simply lacked a few senior heads to get that bit extra we need.

I know this sounds stupid as we sit at the bottom winless but I think we've shown with our last few losses we're back on the road to recovery. where we should have been this time two years ago but Terry has lived and learned. F@ck off Kingsley out of the team and we're even more on track.

 

[CoggaRules]

Are we actually getting better? I find it to be an interesting question, because if you simply look at the ladder and where we sit the answer would be a resounding NO!. However if you look a little deeper the signs are there that the Richmond Football Club are actually getting better not worse. First off take a look at the actual results of games against sides we played and got belted by last year. WCE belted us in the last game by 80 odd points this time around it was about 3-4 goals. This is despite the fact we were missing a number of our more experienced players this time around. Look at the Swans who both times we played last year simply toyed with us. 20 goals first time around & about 40 odd the second time. This year it was about 3 goals and we were actually in a position to win the match. I look at results like these 2 and think that despite the ladder position we find ourselves in we are getting better. Now I know some of you may laugh at this thread and tell me to piss off and thats your choice if you want to do that, but just take a step back and look at how competitive we have been this year in all bar 2 games despite not having 3 of our best 6 players available. Any side in the comp that was missing that sort of class from their side would struggle, don't believe me take a look at the WCE last 5 weeks when they have been missing a few of their top liners 2 wins 3 losses is their record. We might be losing games but at least we are not getting belted as often as we were last year when we were winning games.

wont laugh at you to hard dude, but this year we have rewritten the wrong record books down at tiger land. 2007 goes down for the biggest smashing ever and the longest losing opening streak ever. Do you not understand what that equates to? It could be 50 years and 2007 will still be remembered by the next dud tiger side, as a spur not to lose the 10th game in a row.

Now having said that, i also understand where you are coming from with the improvement. But i dont look at the results, i look at who is involved when we are in the games we are in and who is invloved when we those games are lost. i.e. We have lost most games, not because of a concerted effort by the opposition, but for the error riddled perfoemances of players that have been showing the same for the last 6 or 7 years.
Bowden, Newman, Richo and a fit Cogs is about the end of the section, when it comes to who should remain from the dark past. And its getting to point where I am confident TW had that plan from day one.
he most defientely has a liking for a skilled fast playing group, and he most definetly knew what he inherited from Spud

 

[santa claws]

it depends on what you focus on. skills barely list management no.

 

[camsmith]

No doubt. We have been undermanned all year, playing kids, have lost some very close games and been unlucky is others.

The more games these kids get into them the better.

So I agree with you. But wtf is with your username? You a scummer or something?

 

[wart101]

It all depends on at what stage you are refering to, th same time last year we were further ahead but this year we are playing a much younger group which has put us back in expirience but has also put us forward in the plan to rebuilding our list which has also put our list back in expirience that has cost us game this year.

I think it is a long term plan, at the moment we are in the first stages of rebuilding, i treat it as such, it's taken a while but i maintain that we had to drop the hack first and thats what we have done, now that we are left with this young crop of players we can build our platform.

 

[wart101]

No doubt. We have been undermanned all year, playing kids, have lost some very close games and been unlucky is others.

The more games these kids get into them the better.

So I agree with you. But wtf is with your username? You a scummer or something?

LOL i didn't notice that LMAO

 

[Ah Cheung]

Compared to last year - probably not, however in the whole scheme of things and for a long term future - definately.
As much as we would love to be winning, it is better to be gallantly losing with cubs than gallantly losing with a bunch of seniors..

 

[tigerT]

What is it some of you want exactly?

do you want to win games and be iffy for a finals appearance finishing mid table (bc at best thats as far as we'd go) or would you rather play kids, get experience into them and push some damn good sides all the way most weeks..

Take out the geelong game and the port game, we have played some reasonable footy in every other game. Last year it was dissapointing seeing us get crunched by the class sides, it simply showed that we had/have no chance with what we have to take the next step. We need more quality, as long as we dont drop our bundle and start getting regular canings in the 2nd half of the year, a season with 3 and a half wins and getting within a kick or 2 of the 3 best sides in the comp with our new breed would be perfect.

 

[_RT_]

I have no doubt at all we have improved in all areas except for the main one and that is wins. Sure the side makes errors but those errors are what I would call positive errors, i.e. made while trying something to get us a win. Funny how everyone jumped on Johnson for the fluffed kick against the LIons which cost us the win, but if that kick was delivered a little higher or a second earlier then we most likely would have been sitting here about how the captains play led us to that win. Same as when the kids are making errors they are doing so because they are tyring to take on the game. Lids gets caught or turns the ball over it is because he is trying something that we have not done for a long time and that is play with flair, same story for Raines, Edwards, Tambling, Foley, Tivva they are all trying to take the game on and get wins on the board.

As has been mentioned a few times we are not getting the wins on the board so everyone looks at that and says we're crap but we all seem to forget this side is running around with a bunch of kids carrying the load for the most part with the odd cameo from a couple of the older players. Richo's game against the Dons for example, Johnson playing well against the Lions, JB having a very good game that night as well. I think we can all take heart from the fact we have played just about every in form team this year and only once have we been truly embarrassed(Cats game), once we got touched up (Port game) which was understandable considering the result the week before and every other game we have been there abouts. The wins will come and it might even take until this time next year before we truly turn the corner but once this club gets it right I know one thing, I want to be there for the ride.

 

[Truetiger]

Yes i am disappointed that we have not won a game. However I think i would rather this year then last. As said above we have only been smashed once vs Geelong unlike last year it was many times. Do we wanna win games like we did vs Adelaide last season. Krakouer, Gasper to name a few are not playing its good the kids are really giving it there all and the more time they get the better it will be in the near future. Coughlan, Simmonds and brown in this side would make all the difference so when all 3 are back next year with the mixture of our kids I am sure we will win plenty of games. Someone said to me the other day he bets me $100 that we finish last in 2008 I highly doubt that!
For the rest of 2007 I think we will win a few games would be happy with 3 vs Collingwood and Hawthorn would be nice. 3 wins and come close to the better sides in the league. As it don't say much to the sides we play if they find it hard to beat a side full of youth
Kingsley, Krakouer, Hall, Knobel Should not be with us next year as well as a few others. So why play em now. Give Jack and a few other kids down in coburg a chance to show us Richmond fans what they are made of. There's a bright future and for the rest of this year win loss or draw I am going to enjoy watching the kids play starting with by going to coburg on Sunday One final Thing Johnson do us all a fav and make someone else Captain next year

 

[BrissyTiger]

In order to improve, we need to draft the cream and let them bulk up and develop at Coburg.
As our core players head into the 23-26yo range, our new draftees need time to find their feet.
In a perfect world Edwards, Reiwoldt, Oakley Nicholls, Thursfield and Hughes would be unleashed after a year or two killing them at Coburg.
We need to make our guys really hungry for a spot in our 22 and not just use the revolving door selection policy.

 

[deliberate!!]

I think we looked a better team V Freo, but we also looked good and even better at times during the cr@p decades.

Too hard to judge, till we consistently win games, then we can pinpoint the actual improvement and why we are beating teams.

 

[emperor]

Johnson for the fluffed kick against the LIons which cost us the win, but if that kick was delivered a little higher or a second earlier then we most likely would have been sitting here about how the captains play led us to that win

The point is he did fluff it not to mention his other costly errors at crucial times.

As for the OP, I'm not sure where I stand on this question, I've seen some promising signs and performances but also too much of the same old shit that has plagued us for years (poor skills, decision making, lack of intensity etc). I can see the potential for this club in the years to come, what it comes down to is the ability of the young brigade to push their game to the next level and not be happy with their lot.

 

[I Rock]

As long as we don't have a mass exodus of the young players leaving I think we will be ok.

I just hope to hear sometime this year about a pact or bond between the young guys that together they will stay and form the next part of the Tiger ressurgance.

 

[krustyman]

this year the youngsters have been found out, they have got a long way to go and its time to cull them and reset. recuiting has been very poor and has hurt the side. I can honestly say some of the players brought in this year have been the worse Id ever seen before.

 

[hoogs]

Wallace

 

[Goldust]

Wallace

Hoogs = Moron!!

Why are you here?

 

[Roachy8]

this year the youngsters have been found out, they have got a long way to go and its time to cull them and reset. recuiting has been very poor and has hurt the side. I can honestly say some of the players brought in this year have been the worse Id ever seen before.

Krusty The Clown strikes trolling again!
Rubish...
These youngsters are all playing together perhaps 2 - 3 years earlier as our "senior" group with little on-field leadership & pushing all-comers close.(Forget the Geelong result... The whole club took it's eyes of the ball that week. Gaspers exit etc...)
These kids may not be the AFL's best but they will be just fine in a year or two if managed correctly.
(Will this happen with GM & TW? F***EN HOPE SO!)

 

[Truetiger]

this year the youngsters have been found out, they have got a long way to go and its time to cull them and reset. recuiting has been very poor and has hurt the side. I can honestly say some of the players brought in this year have been the worse Id ever seen before.

King, Edwards have been found out have they I like most would of thought they have shown alot. If we should Cull anyone its you. After all our young kids are doing good

 

[itsintheblood]

Are we actually getting better? I find it to be an interesting question, because if you simply look at the ladder and where we sit the answer would be a resounding NO!. However if you look a little deeper the signs are there that the Richmond Football Club are actually getting better not worse. First off take a look at the actual results of games against sides we played and got belted by last year. WCE belted us in the last game by 80 odd points this time around it was about 3-4 goals. This is despite the fact we were missing a number of our more experienced players this time around. Look at the Swans who both times we played last year simply toyed with us. 20 goals first time around & about 40 odd the second time. This year it was about 3 goals and we were actually in a position to win the match. I look at results like these 2 and think that despite the ladder position we find ourselves in we are getting better. Now I know some of you may laugh at this thread and tell me to piss off and thats your choice if you want to do that, but just take a step back and look at how competitive we have been this year in all bar 2 games despite not having 3 of our best 6 players available. Any side in the comp that was missing that sort of class from their side would struggle, don't believe me take a look at the WCE last 5 weeks when they have been missing a few of their top liners 2 wins 3 losses is their record. We might be losing games but at least we are not getting belted as often as we were last year when we were winning games.

We're improving for sure. 0 wins from 11 games proves it.

 

[hoogs]

Hoogs = Moron!!

Why are you here?

If you have a problem, go take it up with your moderator. The Freo board is often visited by tiger's supporters.

My one word...Wallace, explains my opinion that Wallace is solely responsible for you guys sitting on the bottom of the ladder. It is a fair opinion and it is not a dig at your club. Please find something better to throw at me than 'moron'. Maybe some reasoning as to why I am wrong, if that's what you believe.

Welcome to the civilised world.

 

[Truetiger]

We're improving for sure. 0 wins from 11 games proves it.

How much did we lose to West coast by last year?
How much did we lose to Sydney last year?
How much did we lose to Western Bulldogs last year?

Bar Geelong we have not been killed in any game.

This years side is alot different to the one that played last year?

B Raines, A. Bowden, J. Chaffey, M.
HB Hyde, C. Schulz, J. Bowden, P.
C Deledio, B. Tuck, S. Tambling, R.
HF Pettifer, K. Pattison, A. Tivendale, G.
F Krakouer, A. Richardson, M. Stafford, G.
Fol Simmonds, T. Johnson, K. Foley, N.
Int Polo, D., White, M., Roach, T., Howat, C.
Emg McGuane, L., Kellaway, A., Humm, J.

Look at that line up to the one we got now. More experience last year then what we got this year. That alone has shown me with the kids that we are better off.

 

[_RT_]

If you have a problem, go take it up with your moderator. The Freo board is often visited by tiger's supporters.

My one word...Wallace, explains my opinion that Wallace is solely responsible for you guys sitting on the bottom of the ladder. It is a fair opinion and it is not a dig at your club. Please find something better to throw at me than 'moron'. Maybe some reasoning as to why I am wrong, if that's what you believe.

Welcome to the civilised world.

You are wrong for the reasons stated in this post. We are fielding one of the youngest & inexperienced sides week after week and yet apart from the game against the Cats and the following week against the Power we have been pushing every side we play. The only thing that really cost us on the weekend was our lack of experience, we had Freo done like a dinner just failed to convert our early chances which a good experienced team would do. Try and tell us you were still confident when you guys were 4+ goals down in the second quarter. It was more the fact your senior blokes stepped up than anything Cuddles did that changed the way the game was going.

I know which list I would rather have heading into the next 5 years and it ain't Fremantle. Sure you guys have a few stars on your list but as it stands with regards kids coming through we have you guys covered.

 

[itsintheblood]

How much did we lose to West coast by last year?
How much did we lose to Sydney last year?
How much did we lose to Western Bulldogs last year?

Bar Geelong we have not been killed in any game.

This years side is alot different to the one that played last year?

B Raines, A. Bowden, J. Chaffey, M.
HB Hyde, C. Schulz, J. Bowden, P.
C Deledio, B. Tuck, S. Tambling, R.
HF Pettifer, K. Pattison, A. Tivendale, G.
F Krakouer, A. Richardson, M. Stafford, G.
Fol Simmonds, T. Johnson, K. Foley, N.
Int Polo, D., White, M., Roach, T., Howat, C.
Emg McGuane, L., Kellaway, A., Humm, J.

Look at that line up to the one we got now. More experience last year then what we got this year. That alone has shown me with the kids that we are better off.

Yeah ok. How many teams have been beaten by 157 points in the last 100 years (improving teams don't get beaten by such outrageous margins)? How many teams were winless after 11 rounds in the last 100 years?
How many games had we won after 11 games last year?

Sorry, but improvement from my point of view shows in ladder position and wins on the board. Not by how much we were flogged by in 4 games last year. Everyone at the end of last year was saying that the only acceptable improvement richmond could show this year was to play finals. We're a million miles away.