ASADA case against Essendon hanging by a thread (The Age, 1 Nov 14)

[Ned_Flanders]

Given that the ACC is meant to be independent from the Executive, did it do enough to stand up to political interference? Did it allow itself to be used as a pawn by a government in trouble with an election round the corner?

Anyway, Bob Bottom was certainly not the first to criticise the ACC report.

That's not what you said, you said it was a bad report. It wasn't a bad report. It's finding were misinterpreted by the political powers that be, and it was rushed before the drafters could frame it the way they were wanting. Very different to what you were suggesting

 

[Gigantor]

That's not what you said, you said it was a bad report. It wasn't a bad report. It's finding were misinterpreted by the political powers that be, and it was rushed before the drafters could frame it the way they were wanting. Very different to what you were suggesting

Ok, it was rushed before the drafters could frame it - and it looked like a bloody amateurish report.

It was full of vague language.

It's opening premise was a gross exaggeration in the context of what they actually looked at and uncovered.

It was littered with errors.

Isn't that well on the way to being a "bad" report?

Let's agree in the middle: it wasn't as good as it should have been.

 

[BlueWorld]

They were in for a beating to begin with once Labour announced the Drugs in Sport conference. But I don't think they helped themselves getting the AFL involved - I don't trust the AFL at all. They IMO got in bed with the devil.

How were they going to get the players to co-operate without involving the AFL?

 

[DonsRule]

How were they going to get the players to co-operate without involving the AFL?

How does any athlete co operate?

How did they get the NRL players to co operate?

 

[Armchair Critic]

That's not what you said, you said it was a bad report. It wasn't a bad report. It's finding were misinterpreted by the political powers that be, and it was rushed before the drafters could frame it the way they were wanting. Very different to what you were suggesting

A report is a just that, a report, it's the evidence that the report is based on that counts

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Ok, it was rushed before the drafters could frame it - and it looked like a bloody amateurish report.

It was full of vague language.

It's opening premise was a gross exaggeration in the context of what they actually looked at and uncovered.

It was littered with errors.

Isn't that well on the way to being a "bad" report?

Let's agree in the middle: it wasn't as good as it should have been.

The PUBLIC report was barely an exec summary of the real thing. The reason the public one was vague is because the real one is choc full of confidential info that the ACC cannot release. As for littered with errors, what errors?

You are aware shortly after the report was released a bust occurred at the Melbourne port? Involving bikies? Involving a variety of drugs and supplements? And involving a former afl player? But yeah, I'm sure it, and the other arrests, were just a coincidence

 

[kfc1]

You are aware shortly after the report was released a bust occurred at the Melbourne port? Involving bikies? Involving a variety of drugs and supplements? And involving a former afl player? But yeah, I'm sure it, and the other arrests, were just a coincidence

Didn't know about this - can you elaborate?

 

[The Dustbin]

Didn't know about this - can you elaborate?

I think rfctiger74 is referring to this.

FORMER Hawthorn and All Australian player Trent Croad was involved in a peptide supply deal linked to an outlaw bikie gang, in the latest revelation to emerge in the sport supplement scandal.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/exhawk-in-deal-to-sell-peptides-20130211-2e93n.html

 

[BlueWorld]

How does any athlete co operate?

How did they get the NRL players to co operate?

The AFL forced them to.

They ended up having to wait until their new powers came in August 2013 for the NRL players. So I guess they could have sat on their hands for 6 months and have everyone complain about how long it was taking.

 

[DonsRule]

The AFL forced them to.

They ended up having to wait until their new powers came in August 2013 for the NRL players. So I guess they could have sat on their hands for 6 months and have everyone complain about how long it was taking.

Than they should have worked within their rules of the time. Their powers could not compel people to attend, nothing stopped them requesting players attend.

Their are plenty of government bodies that would love more powers

The NRL players were initially interviewed before the AFL players (before they cracked the shits).

There is no need to rush as long as they get the right answer, the issue is the AFL tying to influence teh investigation of a statutory body. Something they shouldn't do.

 

[Armchair Critic]

Than they should have worked within their rules of the time. Their powers could not compel people to attend, nothing stopped them requesting players attend.

Their are plenty of government bodies that would love more powers

The NRL players were initially interviewed before the AFL players (before they cracked the shits).

There is no need to rush as long as they get the right answer, the issue is the AFL tying to influence teh investigation of a statutory body. Something they shouldn't do.

Do you really think Little was not doing the same thing though with his Political connections. The day after the Fed Court case finished he was on radio stating he was going to speak to Dutton to get the investigation shut down if they won the case.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I think rfctiger74 is referring to this.



http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/exhawk-in-deal-to-sell-peptides-20130211-2e93n.html

There was actually another one. Workers connected with the docks busted importing. A former afl player had just started working at the docks and was rumoured to have other funding arrangements. Can't find link, sorry

 

[The Dustbin]

There was actually another one. Workers connected with the docks busted importing. A former afl player had just started working at the docks and was rumoured to have other funding arrangements. Can't find link, sorry

Oh okay .

 

[BlueWorld]

Than they should have worked within their rules of the time. Their powers could not compel people to attend, nothing stopped them requesting players attend.

Their are plenty of government bodies that would love more powers

The NRL players were initially interviewed before the AFL players (before they cracked the shits).

There is no need to rush as long as they get the right answer, the issue is the AFL tying to influence teh investigation of a statutory body. Something they shouldn't do.

The original intention of the ASADA act was for them to work with sporting bodies and rely on them for coercive powers. They were granted extra powers when it was realized not all sporting bodies had coercive powers. This was tested at the Fed court and Middleton agreed with it.

If the AFL do the wrong thing that is hardly ASADA's fault. They resisted their attempts to influence the outcome.

 

[Gigantor]

The PUBLIC report was barely an exec summary of the real thing. The reason the public one was vague is because the real one is choc full of confidential info that the ACC cannot release. As for littered with errors, what errors?

You are aware shortly after the report was released a bust occurred at the Melbourne port? Involving bikies? Involving a variety of drugs and supplements? And involving a former afl player? But yeah, I'm sure it, and the other arrests, were just a coincidence

Someone kindly put up the link.

At the exact moment as this bust occurred, Gil was before the cameras confirming that the ACC had looked into one AFL club, and one player from another club.

The said article says: "Hawthorn chief executive Stuart Fox said his club had not been alerted by the AFL or the ACC regarding Croad's peptide supply activity. Fairfax Media does not believe Croad is the player singled out by the AFL as being investigated by the ACC for using performance-enhancing drugs. That player is currently playing in the AFL. "

Here is an interesting quote from a normally non-sporty commentator:

“The ACC's report does not justify its media-grabbing title Organised Crime and Drugs in Sport. If organised crime has established such ''a tangible and expanding footprint'' as the report suggests, then you would expect it would have come to the attention of the Australian Federal Police and its state and territory counterparts.”
– Gerard Henderson in Fairfax/Na2onal Times online on 12 Feb 2013. h=p://2ny.cc/nz4csw​

Around this time, there was a statement from the AFP and of the larger state police forces that there was nothing specific they were chasing up out of the ACC report.

 

[Armchair Critic]

Than they should have worked within their rules of the time. Their powers could not compel people to attend, nothing stopped them requesting players attend.

Their are plenty of government bodies that would love more powers

The NRL players were initially interviewed before the AFL players (before they cracked the shits).

There is no need to rush as long as they get the right answer, the issue is the AFL tying to influence teh investigation of a statutory body. Something they shouldn't do.

Influence and assist are 2 different ways of looking at it

 

[kfc1]

They resisted their attempts to influence the outcome.

lol @ the bolded, the most obvious being rushing out the interim report so Vlad could sell his finals tickets

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Someone kindly put up the link.

At the exact moment as this bust occurred, Gil was before the cameras confirming that the ACC had looked into one AFL club, and one player from another club.

The said article says: "Hawthorn chief executive Stuart Fox said his club had not been alerted by the AFL or the ACC regarding Croad's peptide supply activity. Fairfax Media does not believe Croad is the player singled out by the AFL as being investigated by the ACC for using performance-enhancing drugs. That player is currently playing in the AFL. "

Here is an interesting quote from a normally non-sporty commentator:

“The ACC's report does not justify its media-grabbing title Organised Crime and Drugs in Sport. If organised crime has established such ''a tangible and expanding footprint'' as the report suggests, then you would expect it would have come to the attention of the Australian Federal Police and its state and territory counterparts.”
– Gerard Henderson in Fairfax/Na2onal Times online on 12 Feb 2013. h=p://2ny.cc/nz4csw​

Around this time, there was a statement from the AFP and of the larger state police forces that there was nothing specific they were chasing up out of the ACC report.

You want me to put up a link to a confidential report? Seriously? *edit misread thought you were talking acc report not croad - I couldn't find the link to the arrest I was thinking off*

The whole point of the ACC is they get greater powers to gather evidence because it cannot be used to convict.

Asada has that report, which they used to guide them to find for themselves the evidence they could use to make their charges

 

[Gigantor]

You want me to put up a link to a confidential report? Seriously?

The whole point of the ACC is they get greater powers to gather evidence because it cannot be used to convict.

Asada has that report, which they used to guide them to find for themselves the evidence they could use to make their charges

One poster said that it was the first time he had ever heard anyone criticise the ACC report.

I responded there has been heaps of criticism (and rightly so) - going all the way back to February 2013.

Just for starters, refer:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-sport-case-20130211-2e8tw.html#ixzz2KdHP1kUw

and

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/police-cold-on-acc-doping-claims/story-e6frg7mf-1226576594947

Police cold on ACC doping claims

THERE are no active criminal investigations into allegations raised by the Australian Crime Commission's year-long examination of organised crime and drugs in sport despite state-based police having been aware of its findings for the past five months.​

ACC chief executive John Lawler, under pressure to defend his agency's handling of last week's sensational report warning crime gangs were infiltrating the major professional sports, said the operation had largely gathered intelligence rather than evidence and was not intended to result in arrests.

 

[DonsRule]

The original intention of the ASADA act was for them to work with sporting bodies and rely on them for coercive powers. They were granted extra powers when it was realized not all sporting bodies had coercive powers. This was tested at the Fed court and Middleton agreed with it.

If the AFL do the wrong thing that is hardly ASADA's fault. They resisted their attempts to influence the outcome.

They didn't resist all of the AFL's influences.

They had the AFL help change some of the information used for eh interim report (adding the amino acids iirc.

I get the feeling had McDevitt been in control of ASADA at the beginning he would have told the AFL to go jump.

Being legally compliant and the right way to do it are 2 different things.



I accept Middletons decision.

But, I think it was a poor calll to have the AFL there.

Do you really think Little was not doing the same thing though with his Political connections. The day after the Fed Court case finished he was on radio stating he was going to speak to Dutton to get the investigation shut down if they won the case.

Little should have kept his nose out of it too.

 

[Armchair Critic]

One poster said that it was the first time he had ever heard anyone criticise the ACC report.

I responded there has been heaps of criticism (and rightly so) - going all the way back to February 2013.

Just for starters, refer:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-sport-case-20130211-2e8tw.html#ixzz2KdHP1kUw

and

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/police-cold-on-acc-doping-claims/story-e6frg7mf-1226576594947

Police cold on ACC doping claims

THERE are no active criminal investigations into allegations raised by the Australian Crime Commission's year-long examination of organised crime and drugs in sport despite state-based police having been aware of its findings for the past five months.​

ACC chief executive John Lawler, under pressure to defend his agency's handling of last week's sensational report warning crime gangs were infiltrating the major professional sports, said the operation had largely gathered intelligence rather than evidence and was not intended to result in arrests.

Look at the date of the article, what date was the report released again

 

[BlueWorld]

lol @ the bolded, the most obvious being rushing out the interim report so Vlad could sell his finals tickets

You completely miss the point.

 

[Satan]

There was actually another one. Workers connected with the docks busted importing. A former afl player had just started working at the docks and was rumoured to have other funding arrangements. Can't find link, sorry

is this the one?

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/e...uilty-over-cocaine-counts-20130819-2s6dk.html

 

[chelseacarlton]

EFC get their turn if more than two players found guilty.

Players are in dock and Dank not the club.

So if I am lead to believe that "all" players are just doofus's and don't have the wherewithal to check what's being needled into them,without club lawyers,this should be more interesting than a Ali v Tyson fight!.
One that crosses the generations!!.
Dreamtime v reality!.
Popcorn gif fo sho!!.
CC

 

[Gigantor]

is this the one?

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/e...uilty-over-cocaine-counts-20130819-2s6dk.html

Cocaine?

The ACC report was not about recreational drugs (from what I can recall).