Delisted Ayce Cordy (#956)

[cromaglife]

I'm prepared to give him more time given he has had to have both shoulders reconstructed and has performed well at VFL level. By the end of the season i'd hope he will be stringing together a couple of good quarters at AFL level and he will be showing his above average agility once the ball hits the deck.

He really does need to have a few strings to his bow and be able to play forward predomintaley but swing through the ruck and play down back if injury strikes a key back mid-game. Versatility is the key for a player of his physique.

 

[VitalDread]

well that escalated quickly

 

[100action]

As most posters can attest, i'm a very positive, optimistic supporter. And yes, it is only Rd 1 of the NAB cup. But, I am concerned because whilst you can say it's very very early in the season, we should still expect basic skill improvement. Hitting targets and good decision making. Which were not so evident Friday night. And this is across the board too, not just our rookie players.

The difference between our ball use, and that of the bombers and pies was very distinct.

It is a concern to me only. The sky isn't falling.

I was really impressed with Port's NAB last year, I thought they would dramatically improve, Port took huge scalps and were competitive in all hit outs. Didnt do em much good though.

 

[Royale]

I was really impressed with Port's NAB last year, I thought they would dramatically improve, Port took huge scalps and were competitive in all hit outs. Didnt do em much good though.

Nab cup is no indication of the year ahead results wise. Agree there. But I went to watch our Nab cup games Friday night and our ball use is as bad as I've seen it. I'm not basing my opinion on the scoreboard. I'm basing it on the skills on display Friday.

 

[dogwatch]

Tim very concerned about the dogs and not very impressed with how we butchered the ball Friday night. Before you all play the man - how about we start listening to some of these guys instead of just ignoring them or coming out with comments like "Her we go" or the "Sky is falling". I wanted to concentrate more on what he said about Cordy. something along the lines of..........

Cordy doesnt have the ability or strength to stand his ground to make it as an AFL key position play.
He doesnt hit the ball at the speed required for a KPP to be that key target the dogs need to have the confidence to kick it to our forwards.
IF he is to make it as an afl footballer it will be ad a ruckman.

Comments I totally agree with - Problem is that Campbell is far ahead of him in that area as well.

Yeah, I am worried that Watson may be right. It's nothing to do with what he showed in one NAB Cup game - that's just reminded us of what he has/hasn't shown us over the 4 seasons he's been with us. I know he's missed some pre-seasons and been injured for some of it, but there have been very few flashes of the brilliance he was supposed to have. Nearly every KPP star of the game shows something special within his first year or two, even if he doesn't dominate until year 3 or 4.

I will watch more in hope than expectation this year (and the rest of his 3 year contract!) It strikes me he's not that dissimilar in build to someone Watson knows well - the ageless Dustin Fletcher who is only 93kg - so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Tim how could you say you are concerned, 90% of posters on the board will tell you it's only round 1 of the NAB cup. Take a chill pill Tim, please only point out the positives

This is getting pretty tedious, staphy. Why not actually participate in the discussion for a change, rather than sit back and take sarcastic potshots at the people who hold a different opinion?

 

[Cudi]

I agree with Watson on Cordy and I was saying similar things last year. He is a ruckman who can pinch hit up forward occasionally not the other way around. There is nothing to me that suggest that he could be a permanent forward expect for his height. I am usually optimistic with most players but I just don't see where Cordy fits into the team as I have Campbell in front of him. I would much rather see Redpath and Roberts given games at FF then Cordy as they both look much more like natural forwards.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

It's pretty funny how the commentary team from last night constantly said, "Oh, it's only NAB Cup so the negatives don't matter, you just look at the positives, and the Saints and Port have shown a few positives," yet with the 'Dogs all of our negatives actually mean something.

Anyway, my stance on Cordy is the same as it has been for a while now: nobody is willing to give him enough time. He's had tough luck with his shoulders and people forget that this is only his second full pre-season. Give the kid a go, he came as a very skinny kid and is still adjusting and needs more time. Development wise he's only been on the list for about 2 years; he needed to bulk up so he did, and now he's getting used to that extra size and regaining his agility slowly but surely. I agree that he hasn't shown a whole heap, but neither did Hawkins, or Walker, or any key forward in their first two years. The fact that he's been on the list for five years is irrelevant when he's been injured for three of them.

Also, another note: somebody like Cordy isn't going to even try to do much in a NAB Cup game, and I doubt the coach would want him to. It's just a run around, not worth going hard with a history of injuries.

 

[Butane]

Many people on this board, including myself have been saying Cordy should only be trained as a ruckman for years. Forget about drawing conclusions from 1 NAB game nonsense, we've had years to watch him.

He was one of the most talented juniors I've ever seen and an absolute steal at pick 15 or where ever we got him at the time but seems he's lost his agility. I dunno if it's because of his injuries or maybe it's because his body type just simply can't handle the extra weight required to play AFL.

I remember even his first couple of training sessions/practice matches he was out maneuvering Lake and Morris up front and scooping the pill up off the ground in front of Griffen and Boyd but I've haven't seen him replicate any of this since then.

Like it or not, he still needs more time. He just simply has all the attributes for a player than won't his straps until his late 20's. He should be put away to Willy to hone his rucking skills all year, something that should have been happening for the last couple of years. It did seem at times that this was the case but then a week later he'd be in the AFL team playing forward or in the VFL team play forward or being rested or some other bullshit.

 

[Snake Livermore]

Cordy worries me as well. Until he can consistently take marks in 1-1 contests, he is a liability. Regardless of agility, he is too slow once the ball hits the ground, he's also too slow to lead, and he doesn't have the size and power to crash packs. If he could take marks 1-1, then he would at least be contributing ,and he might draw an extra defender and give some space for Jones etc. But last season he rarely took marks in the forward line, and other teams played eg Jared Rivers on him, who would halve the marking contests, and then run-off and create chaos.

So I haven't got a lot of hope for Cordy. It's a fast man's game these days.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Cordy worries me as well. Until he can consistently take marks in 1-1 contests, he is a liability. Regardless of agility, he is too slow once the ball hits the ground, he's also too slow to lead, and he doesn't have the size and power to crash packs. If he could take marks 1-1, then he would at least be contributing ,and he might draw an extra defender and give some space for Jones etc. But last season he rarely took marks in the forward line, and other teams played eg Jared Rivers on him, who would halve the marking contests, and then run-off and create chaos.

So I haven't got a lot of hope for Cordy. It's a fast man's game these days.

Should we argue though that this isn't Cordy's role? If you watch the lanky big men, when they drop a mark it is rare that they're on their own - they have a lot of support from smalls. Countless times Cordy gets zero team support and it makes him look worse.

I agree there are concerns - but I don't feel like this bit is really his fault. If we had more players around him who could run and gun, he would look significantly better. He's shown he's great at shepherding - if he dropped a mark with someone like Lewis Jetta or Andrew Krakouer at his feet, he could shepherd his man and allow them to mop it up.

 

[LondonBulldog]

The game has become a lot more stronger. Cordy is naturally skinny and will struggle to baulk up. So where does that leave him to play? Gets beaten badly in the ruck even though he is taller then his opponent. Not strong enough to take the big grabs up forward. Maybe spend a year rucking at Willy and see how he goes. Much prefer to stick with Jones up forward.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

The game has become a lot more stronger. Cordy is naturally skinny and will struggle to baulk up. So where does that leave him to play? Gets beaten badly in the ruck even though he is taller then his opponent. Not strong enough to take the big grabs up forward. Maybe spend a year rucking at Willy and see how he goes. Much prefer to stick with Jones up forward.

Our issue here is that Jones is not at all a full forward. Without another target up there, Jones completely falters. He needs another tall playing. That leaves us relying on either Williams' body holding up, or one of Roberts or Redpath coming on much sooner than expected. I'm an advocate of trying Dickson as a small and mobile leading full forward, but that's not going to help Jones' woes. So who do you suggest we play there, should Williams struggle to get fit?

 

[fronkalicious]

Agree that Cordy needs another 2 pre-seasons to make it. And yes, I'm happy to give him that time.

He is not a full-forward. He is a 2nd ruckman/3rd tall forward, and is well suited to that role.

Down the road when he does fill out, I'm expecting jones to play CHF and stringer to play old school full forward. Cordy as the 3rd tall/resting ruckman.

As for this season, Williams and jones need to play key forward every week if possible. If Cordy isn't earning a game on merit, don't pick him. Make him play a year in the vfl if need be. Won't hurt him.

 

[fronkalicious]

Our issue here is that Jones is not at all a full forward. Without another target up there, Jones completely falters. He needs another tall playing. That leaves us relying on either Williams' body holding up, or one of Roberts or Redpath coming on much sooner than expected. I'm an advocate of trying Dickson as a small and mobile leading full forward, but that's not going to help Jones' woes. So who do you suggest we play there, should Williams struggle to get fit?

Dannnnnn, re jones, I agree that he needs more help up there, which is why i want Murphy playing half-forward next to him. He'll take some heat off jones, show him what real work rate is, create space for him, and also hit him lace out with some ball when Murphy drifts up to high half-forward/wing.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

As for this season, Williams and jones need to play key forward every week if possible. If Cordy isn't earning a game on merit, don't pick him. Make him play a year in the vfl if need be. Won't hurt him.

Completely agree - if Williams and Jones are both fit to play and Cordy isn't besting either of them, Cordy should be playing at Williamstown.

Dannnnnn, re jones, I agree that he needs more help up there, which is why i want Murphy playing half-forward next to him. He'll take some heat off jones, show him what real work rate is, create space for him, and also hit him lace out with some ball when Murphy drifts up to high half-forward/wing.

Murph will certainly help, but I just feel like Jones also needs a strong target as support. I still think Liam would get the best defender over Murph, as he's likely to get a small run-with type defender.

 

[fronkalicious]

Completely agree - if Williams and Jones are both fit to play and Cordy isn't besting either of them, Cordy should be playing at Williamstown.



Murph will certainly help, but I just feel like Jones also needs a strong target as support. I still think Liam would get the best defender over Murph, as he's likely to get a small run-with type defender.

Agree that Murphy probably gets a smaller defender, but its more about teams not being able to zone off murph, and go to jones, as they have done a lot over the last 2 years. Jones should get more one on one opportunities and more space, simply by having murph play half-forward next to him.

 

[Tommycash]

Listen to BMac's talk. I think everyone was disappointed we didn't do better, but it is definitely early days. Too Early to say much about it all. The sheer fact our coach was so disappointed with the disposal though gives me hope. Obviously he thinks we can do better.

 

[_Mike_]

Cordy doesnt have the ability or strength to stand his ground to make it as an AFL key position play.
He doesnt hit the ball at the speed required for a KPP to be that key target the dogs need to have the confidence to kick it to our forwards.
IF he is to make it as an afl footballer it will be ad a ruckman.

Many of us accepted that line of thought with Cordy over a year ago and didnt need to wait until Tim Watson put his 2 cents worth in.

by the way guys, this should be in the dog tags forum so Im putting in a redirect to Cordy's own thread

 

[Wilfork]

He's not strong enough to hold his ground in a marking contest (or seemingly have any natural marking ability at AFL level) and he's very slow and turns like a truck. He also has a mediocre level of disposal and has been a poor shot at goal (again, at AFL level). We've got no choice but to give him time to improve with this contract, but the flashes of good play have been few and far between.

Play him round 1, but if he's not playing well, he needs an extended spell in the VFL.

 

[Cudi]

Agree that Murphy probably gets a smaller defender, but its more about teams not being able to zone off murph, and go to jones, as they have done a lot over the last 2 years. Jones should get more one on one opportunities and more space, simply by having murph play half-forward next to him.

This. I love the move of Murphy up forward for exactly that. He will create space and Jones will be able to take marks like the one he did against Essendon.

 

[staphy]

This is getting pretty tedious, staphy. Why not actually participate in the discussion for a change, rather than sit back and take sarcastic potshots at the people who hold a different opinion?

Because any sort of negative or constructive criticism will see posters shoot you down time and time again

 

[Tommycash]

Because any sort of negative or constructive criticism will see posters shoot you down time and time again

I wouldn't worry about it old boy. But in fairness, the fact that most people will say it's Rd 1 of the NAB cup is pretty bang on, cause it is. Have you ever played yourself? If not, I can tell you from experience that the first hit out is always more about getting back into it then showing off what you've been doing pre-season. If you have and you don't struggle to slot straight back into your natural game then you may just have supernatural talents.

That's not so much taking down your opinion, I'm just sick of all this after a NAB cup game. Perhaps you can view this as constructive criticism of your posts as much as yours was about the 90% on this board? In fairness though Cordy has shown very little in the season proper, so that's probably why people are so quick to jump on him.

 

[staphy]

I wouldn't worry about it old boy. But in fairness, the fact that most people will say it's Rd 1 of the NAB cup is pretty bang on, cause it is. Have you ever played yourself? If not, I can tell you from experience that the first hit out is always more about getting back into it then showing off what you've been doing pre-season. If you have and you don't struggle to slot straight back into your natural game then you may just have supernatural talents.

That's not so much taking down your opinion, I'm just sick of all this after a NAB cup game. Perhaps you can view this as constructive criticism of your posts as much as yours was about the 90% on this board? In fairness though Cordy has shown very little in the season proper, so that's probably why people are so quick to jump on him.

Alright agree, no more sarcasm.

The thing that gets me is. Yes it's only round 1 of the NAB Cup but for our club we need to show more, the difference between what we dished up Friday day night and that of a better showing is about 2 to 4k in membership sales.

It just worries me where we will end up as a club if we don't get of this treadmill, at this rate we will sign about 25k in members this year.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Sorry to intrude - but reading this board got me wondering just how bad Cordy was on the weekend. I watched the 1st game & took some notes.

1st HALF
[Cordy on bench from start - 20:00 to approx 15:45]

15:59 Cordy wins his first ruck contest: Tally 1/1
15:42 Tight pack situation - Cordy bends down - gathers ball but his quick handball is smothered.
15:36 Free kick to Ayce - Play on situation - 9 point goal to Higgins due to direct result of Cordys hard work.
14:41 Cordy loses tapout: Tally 1/2
14:38 Cordy makes a nice effective handball to Griffin
14:09 Cordy spoils & taps the ball to Murphy

[Cordy on bench 14:09 to approx 6:10]

03.36 Ruck Contest - Cooney sneaks in & wins contest
02:29 Cordy wins tapout: Tally 2/3
02:24 Cordy wins tapout to Cooney: Tally 3/4
01:44 Cordy beaten in chase to ball
00:27 Cordy wins tapout in the Higgins / Cooney direction: Tally 4/5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2nd HALF
[Cordy starts in the forward line]

19:25 Marking contest against 2 opponents - Mark to Essendon. Ayce probably should have spoilt as there was
a Dons player in front of him.
19:06 Griffen kick falls too short and Cordy cannot get to ball.
18:33 Ball chipped by Boyd behind Cordy instead of in front of him - Picken tries to help but ball goes out of bounds.
17:01 Cordy leaves his man to pick up another Essendon player resulting Essendon kicking to the man he left.

[Cordy replaced by Jones approx 16:00 - approx 04:30]

04:30 Cordy goes to back line
03:38 Pack situation but no-one takes mark. Cordy with nimbleness and flair grabs ball out of the air - Handballs
to the feet of Johannisen
03:25 Cordy loses tapout: Tally 4/6
01:59 Fletcher soccers ball - Cordy and Essendon player race to ball. Cordy picks ball up but is promptly tackled as Goodes
does not properly sherpherd. The ball is tapped out of Cordy's hands - he is tackled to the ground and should have got a
free kick.
01:08 Ruck contest - no-one wins

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Sorry to intrude - but reading this board got me wondering just how bad Cordy was on the weekend. I watched the 1st game & took some notes.

Interesting. May have to have another watch.