Backline Reality

[theGav56]

Sorry but you think the defensive pressure Thorton, Mundy or Johnson is better than his? You have got to be kidding me mate! You'd rather a team of players running around wearing tiaras?

Just checked my post, and no I didn't say that. But they are all guys who go to the third best tall player (that is the only option for Polak). When that is not required they have other things they can offer, and Polak does not.

Panzy!

Thanks for that you great big He-man.

 

[Lach72]

Sorry but you think the defensive pressure Thorton, Mundy or Johnson is better than his? You have got to be kidding me mate! You'd rather a team of players running around wearing tiaras? Panzy!

You're calling me a panzy?

Goodness me.

Why are you giving me a choice between two unpalatable items?
I'd rather neither, to be quite frank.

 

[Lach72]

Just checked my post, and no I didn't say that. But they are all guys who go to the third best tall player (that is the only option for Polak). When that is not required they have other things they can offer, and Polak does not.



Thanks for that you great big He-man.

He's talking about me and Nathan Carroll, Gav...

 

[Belnakor]

The main problem is that Johnson Thorton and Dodd are just too easily pushed off the ball. Dodd hasn't had a good game all season, he just consistantly gets pansted.

Grover is underrated, he rarely gets beaten and always has a bit of niggle about him. Hayden and Mcpharlin are good too.

Black is OK but only if he is the only one running off his man - but half our backline are unaccountable, mundy, thorton, black, johnson etc etc.

Having said all that, our backline was fanastic on the weekend. We got absolutely smashed out of the middle, and our backline came to play. I put it down to McPharlin and Grover.

 

[newlander77]

Thanks for that you great big He-man.

Sorry Gav, I was talking about Tin **** Lachy

 

[Lach72]

Sorry Gav, I was talking about Tin **** Lachy

Tin ****?
Well, that's a new one on me...I have man boobs...does that count?

 

[newlander77]

Tin ****?
Well, that's a new one on me...I have man boobs...does that count?

LOL... What cup size?

 

[Lach72]

LOL... What cup size?

More than a handful's a waste, Wombat...

 

[Alfonz]

Probably because He was the one best suited to play CHF in 2002-3.

Who would you have played there?

Pavlich.

Anyway, Croad played FF mostly, didn't he?

J-Lo was still fit and very dangerous down forward; Medhurst was playing good football before CC eventually wore him down; McPharlin (although I think he missed a fair few games in the Croad era) could have been used forward (Parker and Haddrill and Croad for backline). Those are the main options.

Polak (although young) could also have been thrown forward. Simmonds as well could have been a resting option if playing from his proper position of ruck (although again somebody seemed determined to make him a key forward so he got disgruntled and left). Even Clive played a bit in 2003 didn't he?! More than enough options without Croad. By that final vs Essendon, Croad wasn't even in the team.

I can't help it if this is a coach bashing post (it effectively is), but during that 2002-2003 period we had Medhurst, Croad, Simmonds, Polak who were all mismanaged/developed terribly and ended up leaving. Replace Tarrant, Black and Dunn with these 4 (and with their heads screwed on like a good coach would and has achieved elsewhere ... good coach also would have addressed midfield problem) and the team would be right up there now.

 

[Ripper]

Pavlich.

Anyway, Croad played FF mostly, didn't he?

J-Lo was still fit and very dangerous down forward; Medhurst was playing good football before CC eventually wore him down; McPharlin (although I think he missed a fair few games in the Croad era) could have been used forward (Parker and Haddrill and Croad for backline). Those are the main options.

Polak (although young) could also have been thrown forward. Simmonds as well could have been a resting option if playing from his proper position of ruck (although again somebody seemed determined to make him a key forward so he got disgruntled and left). Even Clive played a bit in 2003 didn't he?! More than enough options without Croad. By that final vs Essendon, Croad wasn't even in the team.

I can't help it if this is a coach bashing post (it effectively is), but during that 2002-2003 period we had Medhurst, Croad, Simmonds, Polak who were all mismanaged/developed terribly and ended up leaving. Replace Tarrant, Black and Dunn with these 4 (and with their heads screwed on like a good coach would and has achieved elsewhere ... good coach also would have addressed midfield problem) and the team would be right up there now.

In 2002 Macpharlap didn't play until round 12 and was fragile.
Polak had a shoulder pop (ironically CC was taken to task by Ben Allan IIRC for playing the kid to early ) and only played 6 games.

Croad came to Freo after kicking
16 goals in 1999
33 goals in 2000
27 goals in 2001
and went on to kick 42 - no doubt He could play.

Bit hard to do that from CHB.

And was relatively experienced having played 84 games already including a PF.

Jon Hay used to complain that when He was played in the backline that He would run off and not cover his man.

He missed some of the final few games with a bung ankle , and maybe would have made a difference against the Bombres.

Maybe He would have been able to take a mark in the forward 50 something Simmonds , J Lo , Pav & Medders could not do for love or money that game.
(Pav & Medders di get a couple each in the last Qtr.)

I am convinced that the reason Croad got sick of Perth was the constant media scrutiny on him.

Same with Medhurst. GG never used to fail to mention them at 9.30 every morning.

Then you had all the talkback working out the Dollars/goal.

I don't blame him one bit for going home , no one should have to put up with that much crap.

You can coach bash all you like but until Harves or his successors get to a GF , then CC has far & away the best record at Freo.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

The main problem is that Johnson Thorton and Dodd are just too easily pushed off the ball. Dodd hasn't had a good game all season, he just consistantly gets pansted.

Grover is underrated, he rarely gets beaten and always has a bit of niggle about him. Hayden and Mcpharlin are good too.

Black is OK but only if he is the only one running off his man - but half our backline are unaccountable, mundy, thorton, black, johnson etc etc.

Having said all that, our backline was fanastic on the weekend. We got absolutely smashed out of the middle, and our backline came to play. I put it down to McPharlin and Grover.

We need reshuffles at both ends of the ground IMO.

McPharlin, Grover and Hayden are all good or great defenders. Grover can be a little undersized at times due to the new restrictions on defenders with chopping arms, hands in the back etc but Haddrill was no taller anyway.

Dodd was never a backman and was only placed there in 2006 becoz Thornton and Grover were injured by mid-season. IMO they've continued with him in this role for far too long. Dodd could had some grunt to our midfield and should be our 2nd tagger behind Crowls, playing on the oppositions taller mids.

Thornton is a useless backman and should be re-positioned up forward or sent back to the wafl. He was better against Carlton but still not good enough. Its interesting IMO that Thornton was absent from our 'streak' in 2006.

Black should be the only player allowed to run off his man as he seems to able to work out when to do this and his disposal is less likely to cause a turnover and have his man end up with the ball.

Mundy is mostly playing in the midfield these days so I'm not so worried about him.

When Drum is fit, Michael Johnson should only be played as a winger who sweeps the backline IMO coz he can't defend a KPF and he's too unaccountable as a defensive flanker. Either that or up forward.

Our best bets would be McPharlin, Grover and Drum to cover the talls. A mix of Hayden, Black, Duff, Head, Solly, MaJ and Brock to cover the small/flanker forwards with the ruckmen dropping back into the hole to help out.

 

[Ripper]

We need reshuffles at both ends of the ground IMO.

McPharlin, Grover and Hayden are all good or great defenders. Grover can be a little undersized at times due to the new restrictions on defenders with chopping arms, hands in the back etc but Haddrill was no taller anyway.

Dodd was never a backman and was only placed there in 2006 becoz Thornton and Grover were injured by mid-season. IMO they've continued with him in this role for far too long. Dodd could had some grunt to our midfield and should be our 2nd tagger behind Crowls, playing on the oppositions taller mids.

Thornton is a useless backman and should be re-positioned up forward or sent back to the wafl. He was better against Carlton but still not good enough. Its interesting IMO that Thornton was absent from our 'streak' in 2006.

Black should be the only player allowed to run off his man as he seems to able to work out when to do this and his disposal is less likely to cause a turnover and have his man end up with the ball.

Mundy is mostly playing in the midfield these days so I'm not so worried about him.

When Drum is fit, Michael Johnson should only be played as a winger who sweeps the backline IMO coz he can't defend a KPF and he's too unaccountable as a defensive flanker. Either that or up forward.

Our best bets would be McPharlin, Grover and Drum to cover the talls. A mix of Hayden, Black, Duff, Head, Solly, MaJ and Brock to cover the small/flanker forwards with the ruckmen dropping back into the hole to help out.

Very good

I have thought for a while now that Doddy should be in the midfield.

 

[Belnakor]

We need reshuffles at both ends of the ground IMO.

McPharlin, Grover and Hayden are all good or great defenders. Grover can be a little undersized at times due to the new restrictions on defenders with chopping arms, hands in the back etc but Haddrill was no taller anyway.

Dodd was never a backman and was only placed there in 2006 becoz Thornton and Grover were injured by mid-season. IMO they've continued with him in this role for far too long. Dodd could had some grunt to our midfield and should be our 2nd tagger behind Crowls, playing on the oppositions taller mids.

Thornton is a useless backman and should be re-positioned up forward or sent back to the wafl. He was better against Carlton but still not good enough. Its interesting IMO that Thornton was absent from our 'streak' in 2006.

Black should be the only player allowed to run off his man as he seems to able to work out when to do this and his disposal is less likely to cause a turnover and have his man end up with the ball.

Mundy is mostly playing in the midfield these days so I'm not so worried about him.

When Drum is fit, Michael Johnson should only be played as a winger who sweeps the backline IMO coz he can't defend a KPF and he's too unaccountable as a defensive flanker. Either that or up forward.

Our best bets would be McPharlin, Grover and Drum to cover the talls. A mix of Hayden, Black, Duff, Head, Solly, MaJ and Brock to cover the small/flanker forwards with the ruckmen dropping back into the hole to help out.

Agree with pretty much everything you said.

Can also add that mundy can do the health black role when Blacky retires - those two are the only two with good enough reading of the play and accurate kicks. The rest of them just aren't good enough.

Michael Johnson is at the crossroads if you ask me. Too bad a kick in the forward line, he can't take a big opponent in defense and his work around the ground is pretty shit.

Scotty too Hotty is ok on his day. The problem is that he too can't defend any decent opponents. His run is good, but in reality he shoudl be played as a defender. And he can't defend. I lost my cool at him at the WBD game because he literally cost us the game. No doubt.

 

[Alfonz]

.....

I am convinced that the reason Croad got sick of Perth was the constant media scrutiny on him.

....

Then you had all the talkback working out the Dollars/goal.

I don't blame him one bit for going home , no one should have to put up with that much crap.

I can't argue with this (and a lot of the rest of your post which I left out), but my point is if Croad was sent to defence then the media scrutiny wouldn't have been so great and maybe he would have enjoyed his football better, played better, and stayed. I don't dispute he was a serviceable player in the forward line, I just think he would have been better for us (and him) down back.

Fair enough in 2002 he kicked 40 odd goals which is OK, but in 2003 when his forward output declined (18 goals in 17 games) I think their was an option to see how he would go in the backline. I guess at the time we were playing quite well and the backline looked OK (Dion Woods anybody?) ... but Croad was struggling in 2003 up forward and there was the opportunity to release some pressure on him and see what he could do in defence over an extended period. Can't remember if he went down back every now and then, but it was never for a sustained period.

He was obviously talented, and I think we should have tried harder to find somewhere which best suited his talents. And that is not hindsight, I thought it at the time. Croad was not a natural forward ... he had pace, strength etc, but to me it seemed these attributes would be better served in allowing him to compete with a similarly athletic forward and shutting them down.

Anyway, back to our current backline. Bar the Hayden-McPharlin-Grover trio everyone seems to agree is our best 3, the rest get beaten too easily in 1-on-1 contests. Thinking of some players off the top of my head, there doesn't seem to be enough of that Firrito-Pratt-Campbell Brown kind of desperation down there. The sort of blokes that aren't exactly that talented, but are great defenders due to their commitment. You need to be built of wrought iron to have the confidence to put your body on the line like they do, and the likes of MiJohnson, Mundy etc. lack this. Not necessarily their fault ... I think they are suited to other roles but as pure defenders it doesn't help their cause.

 

[TheBigUnit]

I think Freo's defensive set-up is good - not an issue IMO. The biggest improvement in containing teams will come from defensive pressure through the midfield i.e. like Sydney have done for seasons, Collingwood/Freo did v Geelong, WC did v Adelaide etc. The better the defensive pressure in the midfield, the more rushed/poorer the delivery, which gives the defenders more time to cover defensively (makes their jobs easier).

 

[Avid_Avenger]

I think Freo's defensive set-up is good - not an issue IMO. The biggest improvement in containing teams will come from defensive pressure through the midfield i.e. like Sydney have done for seasons, Collingwood/Freo did v Geelong, WC did v Adelaide etc. The better the defensive pressure in the midfield, the more rushed/poorer the delivery, which gives the defenders more time to cover defensively (makes their jobs easier).

All the more reason to stick Dodd in the guts and get him tagging alongside Crowley.

 

[malpaso]

All the more reason to stick Dodd in the guts and get him tagging alongside Crowley.

Yep, Dodd should most definitely be tagging in the midfield/wing. He's got a tank and loves a scrap.

 

[chook2734]

My two cents for what its worth.

Polak - never wanted to be a backman. He seems to have these grand visions of being a star forward, but he's just not. He's no better at Richmond than he was at Freo, the only difference is, they don't have the same abundance of talls that Freo do. He was played in the ruck because there was no one else (IIRC it was the 'seagull' incident where Sandi had his jaw broken in the derby that saw Polly in the ruck for a reasonable stint)

Dodd - needs to have the right opponent selected for him. He is a very good shut-down defender and the best spoiler in the team when he is given the right opponent. I don't think we can afford to release him to the midfield until there is a replacement for him (and I can't see one on the list right now)

Grover - plays out of his weight division almost every week and is one of our most consistent. He was forced into to the role when Robbie Haddrill just couldn't get out there any longer. Seeing Haddrill running around for South Freo still just makes you wonder 'what if'

As has been pointed out, we have too many players who are the same. If a Mundy (for example - probably has the highest trade value) was to decide he wants out at the end of the year, so long as we trade for a player/draft pick that gets us something we lack, it may not be an entirely bad thing.

Of course, once the midfield is ticking away with Hasleby, Headland, Palmer, Ibbotson and our first rounder from this year, the backline won't be under anywhere near the pressure they have been.

 

[theGav56]

Sorry Gav, I was talking about Tin **** Lachy

Damn! thought I had another stoush on my hands. Oh well.

 

[newlander77]

Damn! thought I had another stoush on my hands. Oh well.

Stop whinging ya big girl

 

[Underdog]

All the more reason to stick Dodd in the guts and get him tagging alongside Crowley.

Yep, Dodd should most definitely be tagging in the midfield/wing. He's got a tank and loves a scrap.

But how many taggers do you play in the middle? Crowley, Dodd and Carr?

 

[Avid_Avenger]

But how many taggers do you play in the middle? Crowley, Dodd and Carr?

Carr isn't a pure tagger IMO. He's a niggler who still puts a lot of attention on getting his own ball. He also can only play on players of a certain height.

Crowley has reinvented himself as a pure tagger who can be damaging when peeling off his opponent.

Dodd is far more versatile than Carr and could take the Adam Goodes size mids as well as occasionally playing as an on-baller in his own right depending on match ups.

Doddy has a bit of grunt about his play and that, plus his height could be handy around stoppages tagging, laying blocks for smaller players or helping to clear it himself.

Having all 3 just allows more versatility with match ups before and during the game.

We'd still have Palmer, Ibbo, Mundy, Pav, Des and Hase when back, Belly, Mayne, Solly and dare I say it, Schammer and Peake as 'offensive' mids rotating through there. It's just a matter of rotating them to keep the right balance at any given time.