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Bitcoin & Bitcoin Mining

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Quivorir said:
Lol no you don't. :p
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Busted :oops:

$10b USD just put a big target on it.

It's the "the bigger you are the more you have to lose" theory. Like how rich people/corporations get lawsuits against them because they can afford to settle for large amounts. In this case it was an army of hackers eyeing the 10 digit jackpot.
 
So Bitcoins worst kept secret has finally happened, the scourge that is Mt Gox has finally gone offline and is most likely insolvent. Excellent news for eveneryone, including those of us with a long term outlook and faith in crypto-currency and for those who have no faith and think the whole premise is flawed. Personally I think the market price will bottom out in the next week or so and then rebound strongly over the next 2-3 months. Consequently I will be buying two more bitcoin this week to take my holdings up to 5.4BTC.
 
You certainly have a strong belief that Bitcoin is still the way forward. Any reasoning behind the thought that Bitcoin will reach record heights this year?

I ain't gonna lie. I bought .5 BTC last year, just to dip my toes in over the long term....
 

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Jesus Christ, one bloke lost 4700BTC??!!!

IDbM0BP.png
 
ash_1050 said:
So Bitcoins worst kept secret has finally happened, the scourge that is Mt Gox has finally gone offline and is most likely insolvent. Excellent news for eveneryone, including those of us with a long term outlook and faith in crypto-currency and for those who have no faith and think the whole premise is flawed. Personally I think the market price will bottom out in the next week or so and then rebound strongly over the next 2-3 months. Consequently I will be buying two more bitcoin this week to take my holdings up to 5.4BTC.
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How does a currency with nothing tangible backing it and a flimsy foundation rebound from this kind of crisis?
 
Ed_Gein said:
You certainly have a strong belief that Bitcoin is still the way forward. Any reasoning behind the thought that Bitcoin will reach record heights this year?
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I'll answer this is two parts. Yes, I do believe Bitcoin (or an alternate, better CC) is the way forward. Why? First and foremost because it has so much potential.
It's anonymous. Purchasing something on the internet with Bitcoin does not require you to disclose any personal payment information such as credit card or bank details. From a consumer point of view this minimises the risk of identity theft, something that has been an ongoing problem for quite some time.

It's cheaper. Fees on Bitcoin are almost non existant, and even when these will be implimented in the future the capitalist open market dictates these will still remain competative. Overheads for Bitcoin payments are approximately 1% while methods of payment such as Visa or Mastercard can cost businesses anywhere up to 3-5%. It makes sense for some (not all) businesses to at least consider adapting Bitcoin if it grows.

Its universal nature: Bitcoin can be sent anywhere in the world almost instantly. Even in extreme cases it arrives within 24 hours of being sent from one destination to another. If I want to sent money from here in the UK to my account in Australia it takes about 4 days and costs me paypal fees and exchange fees as well. Bitcoin reduces these fees to almost nothing and cuts the process down to just a couple of hours.

As for my reasoning behind expecting the price to hit an all time high this year Bitcoin adaption is occuring quicker than ever before and now that incidents that have previously such as Silk Road, Silk Road 2 and Mt Gox are in the past I expect the news market to react accordingly and increase.

While there are a lot more positives for Bitcoin I haven't touched on (and a lot of negatives as well) the three reasons above highlight the fundementals that, in my opinion, will make Bitcoin, or a similar CC, a success.

clogged said:
How does a currency with nothing tangible backing it and a flimsy foundation rebound from this kind of crisis?
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Trolololol. If you would like to touch on the negatives of Bitcoin I am happy to do so. Nothing is perfect and Bitcoin, being the first crypto-currency of sorts, is far from it. As for the jibe about it rebounding, if you have a look at any number of graphs history indicates that bitcoin has responded strongly after a dozen or so incidents which have put a severe dint in the price. For the moment the price of Bitcoin is that of a news dependant commodity, good news drives the price higher while bad news drives the price lower. Same goes for gold, silver, oil, shares, property or anything that is tradeable.
 
Mr_Smooth said:
Did I read that right? BTC now worth 32c each?
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Not quite. The Mt Gox exchange went offline and essentailly declared itself insolvent about 12 hours ago screwing everyone with Bitcoin/money on the exchange. As such the Mt Gox price is now virtually nil while the actual price of Bitcoin sits at around $490 per coin.
 
Mr_Smooth said:
Did I read that right? BTC now worth 32c each?
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no it means he has 32 cents USD in his account.

With Mt Gox you had two wallets - your bitcoin wallet (which he had over 4k BTC) and your USD wallet.

The dude lost about 2.8 million USD, which was worth about 5.7 million USD.

It's all relative though. If the bloke is worth 20 million then it's tough but not exactly gone send him to the wall. If someone had 10 BTC in Mt Gox but it represented 90% of their wealth then that is much worse.

Mind you anyone who keeps any more than about 1/4-1/3rd of their wealth in BTC is stupid - and even then I would only have that much in BTC if it were through BTC that I acquired my wealth. Keeping said bitcoins in MtGox is even stupider cause that company was dodgy as all ****.

As someone on reddit said, in reality MtGox stopped trading about 6 weeks ago when withdrawals stopped happening. Since then there has been no giving back, but a lot of taking.

Getting rid of a ****ed company like MtGox is good for BTC long term but could send it crashing now.

It's made a little rebound and gone from 430USD back to 520USD. It was about 600USD pre Mt Gox.
 

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Smiling Buddha said:
Surely you aren't serious.

Bitcoin will be back at $1000 before the end of the year. Bookmark it.
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Of course I am serious.

Tulips reached an insane price at some point too, so nothing surprises me. What I am asking is where does the confidence in the value of this investment (which is what it is being treated as by participants, not a currency) come from? Mass delusion?
 
Perhaps.

Or perhaps it comes from an understanding of mathematics (the bitcoin algorithms will not be broken for decades at least) and/or an understanding of currency (fiat currencies depreciate, bitcoin's total potential money supply does not increase).

I'm happy to put a bet on bitcoin reaching $1000 by the end of this year. You up for it?
 
Smiling Buddha said:
Perhaps.

Or perhaps it comes from an understanding of mathematics (the bitcoin algorithms will not be broken for decades at least) and/or an understanding of currency (fiat currencies depreciate, bitcoin's total potential money supply does not increase).

I'm happy to put a bet on bitcoin reaching $1000 by the end of this year. You up for it?
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I don't bet, and certainly not with people online. Bear in mind the last person who offered to take up a bet with me (and others) was Daytripper. Vale.

The fact that bitcoin's supply is limited is not an argument for it's spiral upwards. It must both be limited in supply and have a tangible use. It has none aside from currency. However its built in deflation prohibits its use as a currency. Fewer and fewer people will spend their currency if it is likely their currency will buy more things tomorrow. So if no one has a use for bitcoin aside from hoarding it, what happens when the majority of bitcoin is hoarded?

Even the supply of gold grows each year and is likely to for centuries to come. And gold has secondary, tangible uses other than a store of wealth.
 

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It's the same as any currency exchange.

You have to trust that the exchange can cash out all of the holdings people trust it with.

Seems to me like people are just victims of being greedy traders rather than steady hoarders.

Now that I've read up a bit I understand what has happened a bit more. It is MtGox that was trusted with too much money and as such were vulnerable.

Now people need a reason to trust in a new large exchange before market cap can grow again.

Any exchange that doesn't pay cash out immediately is going to be scorned by the crypto community.

Perhaps there is still hope for Bitcoin yet but I still think computing power will eventually destroy it and it is not safe enough to last forever.
 
Smiling Buddha said:
So your argument is that the price won't go up, because it won't be used as a currency, because it won't be used as a currency while the price continues to go up.

Think through that one again, brah.
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I have. I'm not sure whether you have.

It's not that the price goes up against other currencies. It's that there is a limited supply of bitcoin chasing after an increasing supply of goods and services.

Regardless of where it moves against other currencies, it is built in to bitcoin that 1BTC tomorrow will buy more than 1BTC today. The implication is that it eventually exhausts its use as a currency. Once that happens, what value does it have?
 
And if it buys more tomorrow than it does today, people will continue to speculatively invest in it, won't they?

And when they do that, the price will continue to go up relative to AUD, USD etc, won't it?

Exchanges will come and go. Darknet drug stores will come and go. The foolish will lose their money again and again.

But the crypto genie is out of the bottle, my friend. This will be very, very 'disruptive' technology.
 
Smiling Buddha said:
And if it buys more tomorrow than it does today, people will continue to speculatively invest in it, won't they?

And when they do that, the price will continue to go up relative to AUD, USD etc, won't it?
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If it buys more than it does tomorrow, and people hoard it because of this implicit guarantee, then how do new entrants get a hold of it? How does it succeed as a currency?

Ultimately it requires increasing velocity and newer participants to thrive, but the deflation built in to it guards against this. Its demise is hardcoded in to it.

Exchanges will come and go. Darknet drug stores will come and go. The foolish will lose their money again and again.

But the crypto genie is out of the bottle, my friend. This will be very, very 'disruptive' technology.
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LOL ok. That last bit makes you sound like a bit of a tool. You been reading wingnut silicon valley blogs or something?
 

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